1970's hihat sounds

[ThomasWho]

Originally Posted by beingmf

And "Dancing Queen" by Abba! My favourite hihat sound ever...

I`ve heard that ABBA used to record the drums twice , once for closemics and an overdub for ambience mics. This would take some serious discipline from the drummer , that`s for shure!

T

[bcgood]

That's funny that this thread came up. A couple of days ago I was listening to Fleetwood Mac - Thunder on my Pioneer CD player in my truck and was absolutely blown away by how awesome the hi-hat sounded. I've always loved this recording in general but focused on the hi-hat the other day. It almost seems to float around in 3-D silk. I would love to know what mic they used in that session. Obviously the awesome playing of Mick Fleetwood and tape had a lot do with it. Also, the fact that it wasn't squashed in mastering probably helped as well.

[Jaques Beraques]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Ed Greene played all of the Barry White records. A 57 from across the room gets that high hat sound!

Thanks for chiming in!
Can you tell me where this 57 is located?
Is that a Barry Whiteish Mic/Drum Setup?

[Bob Olhsson]

That's a Bob Olhsson setup from a few weeks ago. Didn't use a 57 but could have!

[Jaques Beraques]

LoL
So where across the room would the 57 be? Just circa would be fine for me!

[bigbone]

Originally Posted by PlugHead

FWIW,

Try a Beyer M160, or even a M260 on hat - it'll bring a smile to your face...

I agree , i LOVE my beyer M260 on hi-hat

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by MarkRB

Can't delete my own post. What a spaz.

So I should ask "are you the drummer 'Chris Whitten' chrisso?"

He's quite a drummer! He played one of my very favorite fills on record.

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Ed Greene played all of the Barry White records. A 57 from across the room gets that high hat sound!

Is that Dave Martin's room?

Originally Posted by Sigma

yup in that order!

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by chrisso

No, the 70's was the era of the mega album session. Bands would spend a year or more on a single album, a week getting the drum sound, even before committing anything to tape.
An engineer friend of mine spent a whole studio day trying different hi-hats to find the perfect sound.
In many ways it was the era of the super engineered album: E,W&F, Steely Dan, Led Zeppelin, Foreigner, Queen, Alan Parsons Project, Pink Floyd, The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac.

A lot of care and attention was paid at every stage.

I still say the hi-hat has taken a back seat to the hyped room sound of rock drums, but I agree that tape, a nice mic and a nice recording console all have a role.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing that the albums were meticulously engineered on good gear; I just don't hear that the hats are run through special high-hat preamps and special high-hat mics to special high-hat tape. I think the albums were just well mic'ed, well engineered, and the players would play their well-chosen cymbals well. I'm not so young that I don't remember drummers bringing in five, six, seven different sets of hats (along with 20 or 30 other cymbals) for week-long drum sessions. I don't see that anymore, unfortunately. Drums were my favourite part of tracking.

I just think the great sounding hats were a result of good playing and recording, not that there was any particular focus on hats (with the occasional exception as with your friend), unlike definite trends in snare or kick or tom sounds. It's just a happy byproduct. Maybe I'm way off, but I that's what I hear.

I still think Marotta was more or less right (in his stunned sort of way) when he said until Aja, no-one really paid much attention to what the drummer was doing on hats. There wasn't an appreciation for nuance or finesse. Listen to all the stuff Bonham was doing that's buried so deep you can barely discern it. I didn't even realize it was there until I heard some drum stems in isolation. Copeland really brought hat work back to the forefront in the 80s, though in a way that made every other rock drummer who featured hat work sound just like trying to imitate Copeland. It's was like trying to play fretless at the time without sounding like Jaco. (Didn't Peter Gabriel/Lanois bring in Copeland to just play hats on "Big Time"?)

YouTube - Steely Dan - The Making Of Peg

[toolskid]

70s hi hats ;-)

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by travisbrown

until Aja, no-one really paid much attention to what the drummer was doing on hats. There wasn't an appreciation for nuance or finesse. Copeland really brought hat work back to the forefront in the 80s, though in a way that made every other rock drummer who featured hat work sound just like trying to imitate Copeland.

Maybe Ringo would have something to say about that (Come Together)
I also wouldn't ascribe busy hi-hat parts with a great hi-hat sound.
I just think good drummers and good engineers have been around for a long time.
Until engineers like Emerick, no one was close micing kits much, so the kit sound was more organic, arguably less detailed.

Plenty of finesse and skill in this straight 8's hi-hat part from before AJA and Copeland.
Actually, one of my favourite kit recordings (Ken Scott )
YouTube - Billy Cobham - Snoopy's Search / Red Baron

[ssaudio]

Originally Posted by travisbrown

I still think Marotta was more or less right (in his stunned sort of way) when he said until Aja, no-one really paid much attention to what the drummer was doing on hats

I think that's utter nonsense, there are thousands of examples that disprove this
In fact, Marotta comes across as a bit of an arse in that clip. Typical 'oh woe is me' luvvy bollocks! I've sent him a belated 'pretentious cock of the week' medal

[Nu-tra]

Yesh! Found a used pair! They are special!

Originally Posted by sonicdefault

Hey Nutra,,, did you ever get those 930s?



-SD

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Maybe Ringo would have something to say about that (Come Together)
I also wouldn't ascribe busy hi-hat parts with a great hi-hat sound.
I just think good drummers and good engineers have been around for a long time.
Until engineers like Emerick, no one was close micing kits much, so the kit sound was more organic, arguably less detailed.

I think we are mostly agreeing. Without much close micing, engineers weren't paying so much attention to the hats - this is all I'm saying, lest the OP thinks that there's a magic gear solution that was purposed for that hat sound. Good players, good engineers, good room, the right cymbals.

Yes, I know there were great hat stylists before Copeland. Lots of the RnB guys of the 50s and sixties, plus all the jazz players, come to mind. But the hats were nuances and the sound more -- blended, organic as you call it. Except for Buddy who would play that thing like a mofo. Not many times in rock did it become a lead instrument like Copeland made it where it would get special treatment from the engineers (save, of course, exceptions like Come Together). Busy doesn't make good, but if it's a featured element, then it's more likely to get due attention and treated a little better than normal.

The OP asked how they got that sound - a few posters suggested mic/preamps. I think the hat sound was just a happy result of overall good engineering and the style/quality of performance.

Can that sound really be attributed mostly to tape?

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by duckoff

ditto - they sound great, but then so does the whole kit.... and that groove........ so simple, but pushed, pulled & accented in just the right spots.

things that might help ......

1. try to get some vintage hats

2. bury them in the garden for a few months - it helps take the edge off ( also don't clean em )

3. try to play on the hat surface rather than the edge

4. don't play too hard

5. track to tape

6. resist adding top end

I wasn't particularly familiar with this song (of course, I've heard the title and snippets of it for decades -- I just have avoided the kind of radio that plays that sort of thing since pretty much the 60s).

Putting it on I notice it appears to have an overdubbed hi hat part -- there's what sounds like the hat from the main drum track in the middle and then another, likely overdubbed hat on the left. (You guys probably all know that, I'm guessing, since it's pretty obvious -- but I didn't see it mentioned this far.)

I really have to say that I fail to see the charm of this drum sound. To my ear it's washed out, lacking body and definition. Of course, it's that lite disco thing and you don't exactly want Bonham, so it's probably somewhat appropriate.

But it's certainly not a sound I would go for -- even if I was producing the modern equiv of this type of music.

[TOFT]

And then the vinyl brings the hihat out even better!!!

paul

[Nu-tra]

This song has some great hats. I used to hate disco but man heatwave kicks ass!


YouTube - HEATWAVE - AINT NO HALF STEPPIN

[sonicdefault]

Originally Posted by Nu-tra

Yesh! Found a used pair! They are special!

That's great! Good job finding them used, I know that's not very easy!



-SD