So I got a Neve 1073 clone...

[Beneficial]

... a Vintech x73i after reading countless posts about these units. I wanted to step up my setup and get one good solid state preamp. I also got rid of my m-audio 1814 interface because it only had unbalanced inputs... and I got an RME Fireface 400. Hooked everything up to run some tests. I'm sending sounds out of the RME... into the x73i for some analog Eq'ing and then back into my RME. Everything is balanced. After running some tests I noticed that I was getting a crappy buzzing sound... like there was an unbalanced connection somewhere. It's kind of quiet but it's there. Like I can hear the processing going on in my computer... when i move the mouse etc... i hear it... and there's the constant electrical buzzing sound. I tried so many different things... nothing will stop the sound. Is this just the noise floor you have to deal with related to this type of balanced solid state equipment? I really didn't expect it. When I run the same setup... but swap out the x73i for my Universal Audio 6176 the buzzing noise is gone. Same deal when I swap it out for my Sony JH110c tape machine... there's no electrical buzzing. I thought the Vintech was defective so I sent it back to them and they sent me a brand new one but it's the same problem. This was a really expensive purchase for me and I'm wondering if I'm out of luck. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to eliminate this noise or do I have to just live with it on every track?

[Emi]

maybe it´s an impendance issue

[larrykane]

Originally Posted by Emi

maybe it´s an impendance issue

you mean one of those impending impedance issues?

[larrykane]

is the rme going via firewire? can you relocate your firewire card to another pci (or whatever) slot? Sounds like a computer issue. I had an interface compatibility problem like that so bad (not RME, though)i had to dcange brands then it weht away-tech support didn't help and blamed the computer, which has an azuz main board.

[Emi]

Originally Posted by larrykane

you mean one of those impending impedance issues?

hmmmm...can be...but I´m not sure ....is that make sense? ;)

[Beneficial]

It doesn't seem like it would be an impedance issue because the x73i has an impedance button that alternates between two different settings and the same thing is happening on both settings. Also... this problem is independent of gain... i'm heaving the noise no matter how high or low I leave the gain. As far as the PC... I'm using a pretty good system specifically designed and built for studio use by sonicalabs. If it was an PC/interface problem wouldn't the noise be there when I used this same setup with my other preamps or gear? Anyone else used the xlr line input on the back of a Vintech x73i?

[Emi]

try changing the cables

[alessio]

Are all those equipment powered from the same socket? Try to avoid heart loop.

[Beneficial]

even if the cable works perfectly when sending sounds out of the RME into different preamps?

[mahasandi]

If the noise is not effected by the gain it sounds more like a ground loop
or electrical problem.
(not at all sure but worth a shot)
At least try plugging the computer
or any lights into a separate socket
see if anything changes

And always change out the cables
to reduce variables when troubleshooting

[theblotted]

mos def sounds like a grounding issues.

is the FF400 plugged into AC power? try both ways.

are you using 4 pin or 6 pin Firewire cable? try both ways.

are both FF400 and Vintech plugged into the same AC power source?

[kingofswing]

Hi,

I'm no electrician, but I really do feel that you are going through grounding issues.

I find that when I buy a new bit of gear and test it out in a smaller room of mine with just a really basic mixer setup, I sometimes hear little static pops when I touch the knobs or sometimes a hum in the background on a given channel. As soon as you place your hand on the chassis of the unit, the pops are no more. Or changing the mixer inputs / changing cables - may eliminate any hums. This is just one example.

Try:

Bunching some gear together and see what happens, like RME on top of Vintech and...so on.
Also swap out your cables just to be certain. Use good quality balanced XLR/TRS cables.
Try a different wall socket from another room on an extension.
Perhaps place your Vintech on a different mixer channel and listen out for any hums.
And...make sure you have your AC or any Fans in the studio or in the home turned off. This can all help.

In any case you should perhaps invest in a good power conditioner like an ETA or something.

Cheers.

[A4722]

Does the noise show up in your recordings ? Unplug the vintech after recording thru it and find out.

What type of computer monitor in your setup ? CRT's and some LCD's can get into certain pieces of gear. Turn off your monitor and listen for changes.

Try moving the vintech around the room and listen for changes.

For troubleshooting only (be careful), put a two prong adapter on the vintech power plug (if it is a 3 prong) and listen for changes. If the noise goes away, grounding issues need to be addressed. The vintech and its design might not play well with the rest of your system. Fix the problem WITHOUT using the two prong adapter. It really is not safe to use it.

[MickeySmid]

Is the buzz also there if you put a mic in the vintech into your RME?

Or only if you send something out or the RME, into the vintech, back into the RME?

If it's only in the last case, you should put a re-amp box in between, that will take the buzz out. I use this one, passive: RADIAL PRO RMP. It's the cheapest one there is I think (it's not a DI, different). I just got it, and it works like a charm. It changes the signal from the fireface into the impedance of the instrument input on the pre-amp. And it also has a ground lift button, that also takes out buzz.

Try it!

I also had problems with sending a voice to my tube guitar amp. Lot's of buzz. With this box: quiet!!!

Also, make sure the Fireface uses the external power adapter that comes with it, and NOT take the power from the firewire. That will take care of a lot of buzzing also.
Mickey

[Beneficial]

Ok, thanks for all of the suggestions. Here's what I've tried today so far with no luck...

- unplugged everything and then plugged in only what was needed into the same surge protector (the x73i, PC, computer monitor) with the RME powered by firewire. The noise changed slightly but was still there.

- plugged the x73i, PC, computer monitor into a furman power conditioner... noise still there... toned down very slightly but still buzzing and humming... couldn't hear the computer processing noises that much anymore though.

- same setup as above except a different cable... same noise

- same setup as above except I shorted the ground (used a 2 pronged plug adapter) on the end of the x73i plug.... pretty much the same noise

- same setup as above except powered the RME interface by a power adapter instead of the fireface bus... same noise.

I posted about this on the TapeOp forum and someone responded and said they were waiting on their 3rd replacement Vintech unit. Said the first two had problems and things seem to be slipping by quality checks. I'm kind of worried this may be the case with mine too... or maybe my power supply.

[Stevil]

- same setup as above except I shorted the ground (used a 2 pronged plug adapter) on the end of the x73i plug.... pretty much the same noise

i'd try plugging into a grounding power strip and/or running audio out thru a DI with 'ground lift' just to be sure thats not the issue.

[TOFT]

Yeah, is it also there if you just plug in a mic, and the output to the fireface?

If it's only there when you take the output of the fireface into the vintech and then go back to the fireface, then you just need a re-amp box. Easy. Cause the vintech needs an instrument input, and not a line signal, as an input.

Re-amp boxes rule! Don't be scared of them :)

paul

[Arksun]

Originally Posted by Beneficial

Ok, thanks for all of the suggestions. Here's what I've tried today so far with no luck...

- unplugged everything and then plugged in only what was needed into the same surge protector (the x73i, PC, computer monitor) with the RME powered by firewire. The noise changed slightly but was still there.

- plugged the x73i, PC, computer monitor into a furman power conditioner... noise still there... toned down very slightly but still buzzing and humming... couldn't hear the computer processing noises that much anymore though.

- same setup as above except a different cable... same noise

- same setup as above except I shorted the ground (used a 2 pronged plug adapter) on the end of the x73i plug.... pretty much the same noise

- same setup as above except powered the RME interface by a power adapter instead of the fireface bus... same noise.

I posted about this on the TapeOp forum and someone responded and said they were waiting on their 3rd replacement Vintech unit. Said the first two had problems and things seem to be slipping by quality checks. I'm kind of worried this may be the case with mine too... or maybe my power supply.

Did you try kingofswings suggestion of ' Try a different wall socket from another room on an extension. ' ?

Also, does the buzzing go away if you switch the monitor (screen) off?

[Beneficial]

Update- just gave it another shot with the ground lift adapter... 2 prongs instead of three when plugging in the Vintech power supply and the noise is gone now! I know I really should figure out a safer way to fix this though but this will have to work for now.

Turning the lcd monitor on or off didn't change the noise... also the different outlets didn't change it either. Not sure why my Universal Audio preamp doesn't have this ground loop problem (or my tape machine) when used in place of the Vintech. I'm just happy this is usable now though.

[Fabi]

If I get this right, your problem could be solved by a 1:1 tranny with ground lift, on the cable from the vintech to the Interface.

Would be a safe solution, but might colour the sound a little.


Also- is that noise in the audioway at all???

I had problems with mouse movement noise etc and figured it was only audible on the monitor signal, but once bounced to a CDAudio and listened to on a stereo it was gone
No audio affected (still annoying though)