Recording accordion

[woodfoot]

I need to re-do a track for a short film which has an accordion on it. I don't want to program one so I'm probably gonna get a girl in I know who plays.
The problem is when I've recorded her before, I found that with the mic too close to the keys it picks up all the sound of her pressing the keys, too near the speaker is too overpowering and too far away just doesn't get the upfront sound I'm looking for.
Does anyone have any tips on mic placement when recording accordion?
Cheers

[Marjan]

Originally Posted by phizix

The problem is when I've recorded her before, I found that with the mic too close to the keys it picks up all the sound of her pressing the keys...

I like that... why not leaving it there?

If it really is too much, have you tried different mics?

Congrats on winning the premier league...!

[NathanEldred]

AEA R84 ribbon about 3 feet from the speaker side aimed down at a 45 degree angle from slightly above. Sounds very natural and musical. Depending on what's appropriate for your mix, you can leave the mic open, or put a blanket behind it and/or also behind the player to kill some of the room. Probably deadening in combination with the little bit of distance between mic and player will still keep it upfront but sounding great.

[woodfoot]

Originally Posted by Marjan

Congrats on winning the premierliege...!

Cheers sir. And thanks to your country for making such a great player in Ronaldo! One down, one to go now.

I don't think the key clicks will work for this tune. I know what you mean as with them it has more soul and intimacy but this is more of a sterile thing. Unfortunately my mic locker is a bit weak. I have an SE 5600a, an SE2200a, an AT4033 and a Joe Meek JM47a.
Do you play accordion which mic would you suggest? I may be able to borrow one if needs be.
Cheers

[woodfoot]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

AEA R84 ribbon about 3 feet from the speaker side aimed down at a 45 degree angle from slightly above. Sounds very natural and musical. Depending on what's appropriate for your mix, you can leave the mic open, or put a blanket behind it and/or also behind the player to kill some of the room. Probably deadening in combination with the little bit of distance between mic and player will still keep it upfront but sounding great.

Hi
I think the room should be OK its very dead [possibly too dead sometimes] Will a ribbon mic be the only solution or can I get acceptable results with what I've got? It doesn't have to be breathtaking just no unwanted artifacts. its not the main track in the film, just for one scene.
Cheers

[Marjan]

Originally Posted by phizix

I have an SE 5600a, an SE2200a, an AT4033 and a Joe Meek JM47a.
Do you play accordion which mic would you suggest? I may be able to borrow one if needs be.
Cheers

I've recorded accordion... it's a beatiful instrument, but I don't play it.
I use two mics on it: the 4033 is actually my favourite for the bass notes; as for the mid and high notes, my best results came from a MXL V67 - I guess that's why that mic is still in the closet.

How about doing a precision frequency roll off on the cliks?
Does it loose the soul?

[woodfoot]

Originally Posted by Marjan

I've recorded accordion... it's a beatiful instrument, but I don't play it.
I use two mics on it: the 4033 is actually my favourite for the bass notes; as for the mid and high notes, my best results came from a MXL V67 - I guess that's why that mic is still in the closet.

How about doing a precision frequency roll off on the cliks?
Does it loose the soul?

I may try that. I wanna try and keep it cheap but I could try that methos and the one suggested by Nathan.
Cheers guys, much appreciated

[uncle duncan]

How about a dynamic, like the Heil PR20, which is a very fat sounding mic, totally the opposite of a 57? Or one of the KEL mics that's supposed to be similar? The mics on your list are rather bright. Perhaps angling one like the AEA post said, maybe sticking a multi-layer pop filter in front of it (several pairs of nylon stockings, supplied by your lady-accordionist?) and aiming a second mic away at a near wall? I've combined two mics on accordion that way. The room mic really helps fill out the sound, as long as you don't use too much of it.

[MickeySmid]

I mostly use 2 sennheiser 441's for accordion, this pretty baby:

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/media/h...41-U_hires.jpg

Or indeed if the clicking sounds are to much I might use the R84, or other ribbon.

Then again, I would also ask the girl to not smack the keys, and you can use a condenser. I recorded one last week using 2 oktava mk012's, and it sounds fantastic, very stereo.

[Steffmo]

I record lots of accordians. A world class trio and solo projects for each. Its amazing what can be done with an assordian. These folks do mostly classical, and I have even had the privledge of mixing an accordian piece with the New Zealand Symphony.

Who'd lof thought, lol.

Anyway. I'm assuming its a full size. Its a very dynamic instrument, and can really get loud.

I usually use 2 c12VR about 8 feet from the instrument, triangulated. That will gige a big stereo image, with the bass to one side and the melody on the other. In some uses the stereo can almost be distracting, so a siple mono mic 6 to 8 feet in front will work fine....perhaps with a touch of verb.

I'm sure the ribbon will be fine also. I sometimes go with 2 Coles 4038 instead.

You can probably make it work with those mics......give it a shot.

[woodfoot]

Originally Posted by MickeySmid

Then again, I would also ask the girl to not smack the keys, and you can use a condenser. I recorded one last week using 2 oktava mk012's, and it sounds fantastic, very stereo.

Now those I can get. There's a studio down the road from me where I do some work and they're usually cool about borrowing mics. There's two oktava 012s there
Cheers

[Sigma]

i posted earlier..i used a A design tube pre and a 451 about 2 feet away and like i was standing in front and shooting for the center of the accordian..it came out great

[zeljkom]

A good accordion is also very important. I've recorded accordion many times and a good one makes all the difference. Keys are not as loud (almost dead silent compared to the tone) and that's what you're aiming for. And sound of course. So if you can try to find another accordion and experiment with that.

Good luck.

[Slaytex]

Ribbons are awesome on accordians. I used a Fathead II a while back and got great results. I just kept pulling the mic further back to control the proximity effect.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by zeljkom

A good accordion is also very important. I've recorded accordion many times and a good one makes all the difference. Keys are not as loud (almost dead silent compared to the tone) and that's what you're aiming for. And sound of course. So if you can try to find another accordion and experiment with that.

Good luck.

hopefully that's a given when recording anyone with any instrument..if he sound is sheity at the source then nothing is going to make it that much better during recording

[MickeySmid]

Originally Posted by phizix

Now those I can get. There's a studio down the road from me where I do some work and they're usually cool about borrowing mics. There's two oktava 012s there
Cheers

The oktava's are quite accurate, and will not do much against the clicking of the keys. But they are great... just put one on the key side, and one on the bass side... try them far away, and a bit closer, record both, and choose.

Also borrow 2 ribbons if they have any. Don't put phantom on them if you are borrowing them

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Marjan

I've recorded accordion... it's a beatiful instrument, but I don't play it.

You still might be considered a gentleman I guess.

[beyarecords]

Originally Posted by Marjan

Congrats on winning the premier league...!

UTD!! Hopefully we can school Chelsea a thing or two come the champions league final as well

[zeljkom]

Originally Posted by Sigma

hopefully that's a given when recording anyone with any instrument..if he sound is sheity at the source then nothing is going to make it that much better during recording

You've got a point there and it's true but accordion can sound very nice not sheity and there will still be that key sound taking over the tone. A lot of accordions have that problem.

[Marjan]

Originally Posted by beyarecords

UTD!! Hopefully we can school Chelsea a thing or two come the champions league final as well

Looking forward to that match...
I just hope neither the teams come up too defensive...

[analogjeff]

as always, it depends on the kind of music, the player and the instrument, but we tend to use a royer 121 on the main side and an older 414 b-uls on the button side... or a couple of 414's -- for really fast music and pumping sometimes km84's or some THE mics... lots of mics can work as long as they don't highlight the piercing tones... off axis from a bit above will help diminish the key noise, but you may find you need another accordion depending...

[woodfoot]

Originally Posted by beyarecords

UTD!! Hopefully we can school Chelsea a thing or two come the champions league final as well

We've never lost a final in europe and I don't think we're about to let that lot change that. "Follow follow follow. coz united are goin to moscow"

And so am I wooooooo!!!!

Originally Posted by Marjan

Looking forward to that match...
I just hope neither the teams come up too defensive...

Doubt that will happen either both of us are attacking teams and you don't win matches by defending. Will be a great match though

[woodfoot]

Originally Posted by zeljkom

A good accordion is also very important. I've recorded accordion many times and a good one makes all the difference. Keys are not as loud (almost dead silent compared to the tone) and that's what you're aiming for. And sound of course. So if you can try to find another accordion and experiment with that.

Good luck.

I think she only has one but Ill ask. Don't know what the quality is like though. The guys are on a limited budget for the film so I don' think we'd be able to rent one. Especially as its not the main track of the film

[Marjan]

Originally Posted by phizix

you don't win matches by defending.

Well, I'm not so sure about that these days...
We've seen both Greece and Italy winning the last European and World cups respectively, and they hardly got off their midfield during the whole competition.
Teams should be able to unfold, just like the accordion...

[Gord0n]

Hi i got some issues with recording this thing "squiz box" has anyone got any suggestions for eq settings im using U67.

cheers...........dfegad

[Arthurelletson]

ok, reserecting this thread as I need to record a Brazilian band in the near future and there is an accordion player in the band. I have a number of problems. first mic placement and selection.
on offer are the following. AT4033 x2, se2200a, shure: 57 and 58. a pg81, d112, a pair of little blondies, plus a couple of small shenniser drum mics.

looking at the previous posts i will probably use a AT4033 aimed over his right shoulder at the keys and then maybe a little blondie aimed at his chest about four feet away and then the se2200a about 3 feet to the left aimed at his hand. and then mix the three sauces.

the second problem is that the accordion sound quite important in the structure of the song so i will want to record it live if possable, the live room i have is quite small and will have the drums in there so i dont really want to have him in there as well, i could have him in the live room but i will need to track on cans then.

the other problem is that he is the singer and will want to lay down guide vocals as well.

i know it would be better to rerecord it again later but i am worried that it will not sit right, and want to exaust all my options first
can any one help!!

[Emwolb]

I would isolate him, let him play and lay the guide, THEN unless its just a stellar take, recut the vox and accordion separately.

As for micing, you have it right already.

If you can get him to sit down while he plays the accordion it will also help as players often move around quite a bit- especially if singing as well. A chair will anchor him.

But don't underestimate the original guide- if hes a live cat, it could be the best take so be prepared from the get go.

But bleed is your friend as much as enemy- if done right it can be great! Vox and all.

My favorite thing about accordion tracking is the recording picking up the fingers tapping the keys- just adds life to the recording!

[Clayphish]

Originally Posted by zeljkom

A good accordion is also very important. I've recorded accordion many times and a good one makes all the difference. Keys are not as loud (almost dead silent compared to the tone) and that's what you're aiming for. And sound of course. So if you can try to find another accordion and experiment with that.

Good luck.

Have you echo this. If the accordion keys are clacking, then you need to find another accordion if you can't find a medium for the shortcomings of the instrument.

Its amazing how great it is recording a good quality accordion. Believe it or not, its very easy to do.

[AnthonyRochester]

I would record accordion and guide vocals live in the room with the drums, for the benefit of the drummer (and anyone else playing) and retrack it cleanly later if necessary. But the live take might be fine, leakage might not matter, depends how clean you want the drums to sound..

[binarymilton]

Originally Posted by analogjeff

as always, it depends on the kind of music, the player and the instrument, but we tend to use a royer 121 on the main side and an older 414 b-uls on the button side... or a couple of 414's --

I would have thought 414s would give you quite a lot of key noise, no? I find they tend to pick up a lot of transient details.

(I don't mind a bit of key noise, as it happens)

This a great thread for me, because I'll be recording accordion soonish.

And my mic cupboard is:

2 x Coles 4038
AKGC414B XLS
AKGC414B XLII
AKGC451B
AKGD310