Acct guitar mixing tip/technique?

[zotty]

I searched for acoustic guitar ITB mixing techniques, found way way too much noise. I've read many ideas here, but now can't find them. SORRY!

Recording (mic placement/stereo pairs/doubling parts) is pretty well covered and easily searchable, but less so finding techiques (delays, compressors, reverbs, eq) used to sweeten up a acc. track.

Given a decent raw signal, what are some good ITB/OTB to audition?

Again, sorry. I know it's here, (i've read them), but i can't find the right terms for a meaningful search.

[fooman]

What type of music?
I mix rock, so when I have an acoustic guitar track I usually use it for the attack of the guitar and to add some natural clean to the distorted sound. So I filter off the low-end, and put the UAD LA2A on it. Nothing special. Just lets the attack come through and sits the guitar in the mix. The rest is just levelling for me.

[zotty]

I mainly do denser mixes, but I'm trying to stretch a bit and do a very lean mix with the guitar as one of the primary elements. Maybe Ryan Adam's ish. I don't kid myself about getting that sound, but I like to kick the tires. For the sake of discussion, maybe just guitar + vocals.

[fooman]

I've done a few mixes of just an acoustic with vocal. I did one take of guitar with two mics in spaced pair, and also a DI if the guitar is electric-acoustic.

Anywho, I'll pan the two mics to each side as far as they'll go until it starts to sound weird. I never pan it 100% left and right because it sounds very odd to me. I then filter off the extreme low-end and play with the EQ until I get the sound I'm after. If the guitar doesn't sound really close to the sound I want without EQ, then I'm screwed e.

I don't compress a lot when there's just vocals and it's a sparse mix. I'll add some verb to the guitar so it's not flat. I just try to not put my touch on it... it's not my song and usually the sparse mixes are personal to the client

Actually I think my myspace has a mix with guitar, vocal, and synth. The guitar we used wasn't top notch, the client wasn't an amazing singer, but he liked how it turned out.

[danbronson]

I always listen back to old acoustic recordings I've done and wonder what the hell I was thinking, since they're covered in reverb and compressed so much. Like fooman said, just enough reverb to make the guitar not sound flat is what I aim for now. And compression is just to cut off the peaks.

In a dense mix of course, all that goes out the window. The reverb should still be low or possibly non-existant. Compress away and EQ so that it 'fits'.

[chk027]

I have a few questions on this topic if someone can help

1. Is it normal to assume that an acoustic set or song will typically have a quiet overall output when mixed vs. songs that are electric guitar based songs???

2. If not, what can be done within mastering to bring the "loudness" of the song tp the point that it is maintains its quality and balance


The reason I ask is because Im doing a few song and I like the ruff draft mix but the levels are very low when I A/B it against anything I have in my library.dfegad

I'm using Logic, if that helps...

[u b k]

ime, if the track was recorded with the right mic and was played correctly with regards to the arrangement, it won't need much of anything regardless of whether the song is dense or sparse.

usually when i have to fight to get it to fit, something was off with the performance.

so i suppose my helpful tip for mixing acoustic guitar is 'play it right.'


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Unclenny]

Lately I've been tracking one or two acoustic guits to start my tunes.......fill in other stuff, including electric guits, after the vox. As far as 'loudness' goes I work the mix to get the acoustics carry the load.

I agree with u b k that time spent getting it right at tracking will let the instrument's voice come out more naturally during mixing.

For my stuff I like to get the acoustic guit on two mono tracks (from two different mic/pre combos), EQ and compress each one to taste and then bounce to a stereo track for some creative panning. Sometimes I'll take the one of the mono tracks and put that back in the mix also.


Leave A Little Mystery

[doorknocker]

Here's a few things that work for me:

- I always record mono acoustic guitar tracks, very often double-tracked and put hard L + R.

- Often the reverb (and delay) will be a mirror-image i.e the reverb return of the right panned guitar is panned to the left, etc

- Rhythmic delays can help drive track. Another thing I often do with songs that got a pronounced backbeat is triggering the acoustic guitar compressor sidechain from the snare track.

-Still another 'drive' method is having two acoustic guitar tracks act as 'snare/hat' reinforcements: The 'snare' guitar plays only on '2' and '4' and the 'hat' guitar is playing straight 8th notes. And speaking of hats, this works especially well for driving country grooves. Don't be shy with the HPF. A simple SM 57 can work wonders here as it will focus on the percussive part of the tonal spectrum. There's definitely a relation to drums like a KM 84 can be great for acoustic guitar or hi-hat, same with the 57 or Beyer M201.

I tend to compress acoustic guitars quite a bit, mainly with a LA-3A during tracking and then some more in the mix (The Massey CT4 is practically always there, sometimes the Digi Comp especially when side-chaining)

Though it has been said before: Pay special attention to the pick when recording strummed rhythm parts, it makes all the difference.

[andyafco]

The sparseness and performance definitely play equal roles. Acoustic guitars can be tricky based on the style played. From straight finger style/travis picking to hard strumming to percussive. How you approach tracking the guitar is directly related to how you envision it in the mix. For sparse mixes, I may have an XY pair in front, a room or overhead mic (guitarists who love the sound of their guitar hear it 'above' the guitar, not out in front) and a pickup feed if available. I've used a 57 for percussive parts as well. I'll use far less mics for more dense mixes, which are also usually doubled/layered.

In vocal/guitar mixes that are simple finger style, I'll only compress to bring down some stray hard-plucked or snapped notes. For strummed parts, I'll even it out with compression more but try to retain the transients so as not to suck the life out of the track. With percussive style (think Michael Hedges or Don Ross or Preston Reed), I may setup two compressors or a compressor then limiter in order to make sure the transient hits on the guitar itself are reigned in.

The denser the mix, the more EQ plays a role for me. Its important to note that acoustic guitars play a less melodic and more percussive role as the mixes get denser. As others have mentioned, use a HPF to get rid of all the lows. Also be careful that the upper mids don't fight with the vocals.

af

[adoucette]

i've always enjoyed an acoustic miced with the M/S or "mid-side" position, lets you control the width when it comes to mix, and has a nice full sound without having to double track te guitar, which often can take up alot of room in the mix

[chk027]

Originally Posted by Unclenny

Lately I've been tracking one or two acoustic guits to start my tunes.......fill in other stuff, including electric guits, after the vox. As far as 'loudness' goes I work the mix to get the acoustics carry the load.

I agree with u b k that time spent getting it right at tracking will let the instrument's voice come out more naturally during mixing.

For my stuff I like to get the acoustic guit on two mono tracks (from two different mic/pre combos), EQ and compress each one to taste and then bounce to a stereo track for some creative panning. Sometimes I'll take the one of the mono tracks and put that back in the mix also.


Leave A Little Mystery

Thanks for that idea, I will try that......I put alot of solo's with my songs too, pretty much throughout the song, not ballz out solo's just some texture melodies, so I try to keep space in the mix as well.........

Thanks

[chk027]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

Here's a few things that work for me:

- I always record mono acoustic guitar tracks, very often double-tracked and put hard L + R.

Is this kind of the foundation or pad of the song idea? I also do this put lately have one side a little lower in volume, I just think it creates more space for other instruments. Is that acceptable practice?

- Often the reverb (and delay) will be a mirror-image i.e the reverb return of the right panned guitar is panned to the left, etc

- Rhythmic delays can help drive track. Another thing I often do with songs that got a pronounced backbeat is triggering the acoustic guitar compressor sidechain from the snare track.


-Still another 'drive' method is having two acoustic guitar tracks act as 'snare/hat' reinforcements: The 'snare' guitar plays only on '2' and '4' and the 'hat' guitar is playing straight 8th notes. And speaking of hats, this works especially well for driving country grooves. Don't be shy with the HPF. A simple SM 57 can work wonders here as it will focus on the percussive part of the tonal spectrum. There's definitely a relation to drums like a KM 84 can be great for acoustic guitar or hi-hat, same with the 57 or Beyer M201.

This is a great idea, so you are saying play the rhythems 2 different ways?? If that is what you are saying that is a great idea to try......Never thought of that

I tend to compress acoustic guitars quite a bit, mainly with a LA-3 during tracking and then some more in the mix (The Massey CT4 is practically always there, sometimes the Digi Comp especially when side-chaining)

Though it has been said before: Pay special attention to the pick when recording strummed rhythm parts, it makes all the difference.

I agree with that 100%, I have been very good with this some of the time, but and understand and hear the difference with ease.....

Can't thank all of you guys enough sharing your ideas.....

[chk027]

Originally Posted by andyafco

The sparseness and performance definitely play equal roles. Acoustic guitars can be tricky based on the style played. From straight finger style/travis picking to hard strumming to percussive. How you approach tracking the guitar is directly related to how you envision it in the mix. For sparse mixes, I may have an XY pair in front, a room or overhead mic (guitarists who love the sound of their guitar hear it 'above' the guitar, not out in front) and a pickup feed if available. I've used a 57 for percussive parts as well. I'll use far less mics for more dense mixes, which are also usually doubled/layered.

In vocal/guitar mixes that are simple finger style, I'll only compress to bring down some stray hard-plucked or snapped notes. For strummed parts, I'll even it out with compression more but try to retain the transients so as not to suck the life out of the track. With percussive style (think Michael Hedges or Don Ross or Preston Reed), I may setup two compressors or a compressor then limiter in order to make sure the transient hits on the guitar itself are reigned in.

The denser the mix, the more EQ plays a role for me. Its important to note that acoustic guitars play a less melodic and more percussive role as the mixes get denser. As others have mentioned, use a HPF to get rid of all the lows. Also be careful that the upper mids don't fight with the vocals.

af

That covers just about the whole spectrum for me...........it is a tough instrument to push in the mix in my experience, it kinda of finds its spot, and when you try to do too much with it, you kinda ruin everything else, but I guess that is the same with all parts of a song.....

Thanks for the reply.....

[chk027]

Originally Posted by adoucette

i've always enjoyed an acoustic miced with the M/S or "mid-side" position, lets you control the width when it comes to mix, and has a nice full sound without having to double track te guitar, which often can take up alot of room in the mix

I will try this as well, thanks for the idea....good stuff

[doorknocker]

chk027,

I don't fully understand what you mean by: This is a great idea, so you are saying play the rhythems 2 different ways?? If that is what you are saying that is a great idea to try......Never thought of that

The idea is simply to make the acoustic guitars part of the rhythm section. Instead of having the acoustic guitar play both 8th notes and accent '2' and '4' you might split the part and have one guitar play straight 8th notes chords (think James Brown going country) while the second guitar just hits '2' and '4'. If you're in PT, put the Digi Compressor on that track and feed the sidechain from the snare track. For additional fun, call up the 'Steamroller' preset on the Digi Comp, can you say 'explosive'? stike

Make the straight 8th note guitar very lean by pulling out most of the low end and mids. It's the 'tuned hi-hat' thing, it doesn't fit every song but it can be great for some stuff.

[chk027]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

chk027,

I don't fully understand what you mean by: This is a great idea, so you are saying play the rhythems 2 different ways?? If that is what you are saying that is a great idea to try......Never thought of that

The idea is simply to make the acoustic guitars part of the rhythm section. Instead of having the acoustic guitar play both 8th notes and accent '2' and '4' you might split the part and have one guitar play straight 8th notes chords (think James Brown going country) while the second guitar just hits '2' and '4'. If you're in PT, put the Digi Compressor on that track and feed the sidechain from the snare track. For additional fun, call up the 'Steamroller' preset on the Digi Comp, can you say 'explosive'? stike

Make the straight 8th note guitar very lean by pulling out most of the low end and mids. It's the 'tuned hi-hat' thing, it doesn't fit every song but it can be great for some stuff.

That makes sense to me, you are saying that you take the guitar part (rhythm) and cut it in half in a horizontal sense (Im not very musically educated) Lets say down stroke, and upstokes when strumming, or divide it any way.......but make it 2 tracks and coordinate them with the drum beat differently.

I really like that idea, if that is what you are saying.......please clarify if I'm not understanding this principle

Thank You

[steveschizoid]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

the second guitar just hits '2' and '4'. If you're in PT, put the Digi Compressor on that track and feed the sidechain from the snare track. For additional fun, call up the 'Steamroller' preset on the Digi Comp, can you say 'explosive'?

Why use the snare to feed the side chain if the guitar is only playing on the 2 and 4 with the snare? How would that be any different from just compressing normally?

[u b k]

try this: play the chord/progression using only strings 3, 4, & 5, hard left. play different inversions several frets away using only strings 2, 3, & 4, hard right. same rhythm, different timbre and harmonization.

it'll sound wide *and* uncluttered, as there are far fewer overlapping freqs clogging the center image.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[edvdr76]

Here's what I do.... I use 2 mics usually but sometimes will do a mono track. Usually a 414 and a 451. I'll do a 414 or if available a C12 for mono tracks. Ill pan the 414 about 10 or 2 o'clock (which ever you prefer)and the 451 will be panned totally on the opposite side but I'll sneak that one in very softly..... just enought to be brely audible. I find it gives my acoustic guitars a very focused and at the same time wide sound........

[Kenny M]

Acoustic guitars are mostly about the right acoustic guitar for me.

I also like using plugs like Crane Song Phoenix and PSP Warmer on acoustics.

[buzzjoe]

Originally Posted by adoucette

i've always enjoyed an acoustic miced with the M/S or "mid-side" position, lets you control the width when it comes to mix, and has a nice full sound without having to double track te guitar, which often can take up alot of room in the mix

+1 thumbsup

Usually I use a low cut on the tracks. For the full mix (acoustic guitar, mandolin, violin, vocals) I like the UA Fairchild.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

Why use the snare to feed the side chain if the guitar is only playing on the 2 and 4 with the snare? How would that be any different from just compressing normally?

I got this idea from listenig to some of Steve Earle's stuff like the 'I feel alright' record. The idea is to 'duck' the acoustic guitar during the snare hit and let it 'pump up' right after. So the guitar becomes a kind of 'snare tail'.

I find that side-chaining like this really makes the mix more transparent while still retaining punch. I do it often with the kick feeding the bass as well but it all dpends on the parts being played.

It's kind of the same idea like Charlie Watts not hitting the hi-hat on the backbeat and thus letting the snare really breathe.