Advice for up-and-coming Mix Engineers

[Dopamine]

I really want to "make it" as a mixer. I have a nice studio, but simply need more steady practice mixing.

At this point I am finding it very difficult to attract new clients. I've tried marketing on Craig's List, using Myspace connections, approaching live bands, etc. Most of the more serious acts expect a "name" mixer. The less serious ones just don't have the budget.

Just wondering if there are any guys that have found a good business plan in 2008 to attract new clients. I've tried raising my rates, and I've tried lowering it (even offering free or "don't pay until you're 100% happy" deals).

My goal is humble: get an average of (2) mixes per week.

I feel as though I have excellent human relation and phone skills, so that's not the problem. I generally refer people to my website which has some samples of my mixes.

Not sure what else to do, but I desperately want this to work.

ANY ADVICE GREATLY APPRECIATED.

[corruptmary]

2 mixes per week? humble?? how fast do you do your mixes??

[goldenlotus]

Just make sure that every mix you put out is as good as you can possibly make it. Almost all the work I've gotten has been a reference from another client.

[RCM - Ronan]

Two things seem to attract clients:

1) Cool credits

2) Personal connections

You do not have the first yet and its tough to get, but you can get the second. Get to know all the bands in your area, become pals with them etc. Local bands are more likely to go with some one they know and trust.

[Dopamine]

<< 2 mixes per week? humble?? how fast do you do your mixes?? >>

Not sure if this was sarcasm. I try to finish mixes in a day.

<< Two things seem to attract clients: 1) Cool credits 2) Personal connections >>

Yeah, I guess I'll look harder and my connections and see if I can get anything poppin'.

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

[Kadden Heart]

god i'm in the same boat don't worry,...

i've been going to all the locla shows i can. "hey guys, ou sounded GREAT, can i buy a copy of your album?, if you ever need any audio work done let me know i'd love ot be part of it :hands business card and buys CD:"
THEN,...get home,...listen to the CD, send them an e-mail, saying yo ulove the CD, (cite specific things) and if the production isn't super good, i guess you can feel free to say "the engineerings leaves a little ot be desired, but the record is still awesome"

anyway, i spent hours on myspace adding all the local bands,.. when you request bands you can write messages now
"hey guys, LOVE your stuff, if you ever need any studio work done let me know, i'd love to be part of it"

i sent e-mails to ALL the local labels (big or small)
"i'm a HUGE fan of ALL the acts on ______label, if you ever have any groups in the area that need demos, ep's whatever please let me know, i'd love to work for with any of the ____ bands, without charging of course"

doing this has gotten me a gig with a drive-thru records band (i love drive-thru) i dod free demos, they came back a second time and paid, now i'm getting another demo work being paid, as well as had another locla punk labels send me tow acts now.

i've also picked up a lot of bands from my myspace advice,...just keep trying,..and don't give up.
it'll come.

work as hard as you can,..and be sure you ALWAYS put your best effort into work.

[Dopamine]

Thanks Kadden, for the inspiration. The endless marketing and emails are starting to get exhausting, but I guess I just need to keep at it.

[AntillesSound]

Originally Posted by Kadden Heart

doing this has gotten me a gig with a drive-thru records band (i love drive-thru) i dod free demos, they came back a second time and paid, now i'm getting another demo work being paid, as well as had another locla punk labels send me tow acts now.

that rules man. i would love to being doing work for drive thru or epitaph.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Dopamine

I

ANY ADVICE GREATLY APPRECIATED.

1) Hook up with the up and coming production team(s) in town. Problem is most up and coming production teams want to impress their clients(record label A&R's and talent).

So you have to go where they hang out, which leads to #2:

2) Go freelance or become an assistant at the top studios in town.

If you want to get noticed and make the contacts that matter you have to go in the lions den and out of the comfort zone.

For some guys this is a problem since they feel where they are at "the mountain should come to Moses" but it just doesn't work that way.

But trust me if you are really good they will ask for you every time and kick you work. Eventually the labels and managers take notice as well as the artists. The hard part is getting them to trust you enough to mix a major label track. There are a lot of politics involved.

Some production teams are very rigid on who mixes and who tracks. I did engineering work once for one popular producer(who's name rhymes with "heaven"), who made you sign a mini contract letting you know that in no way you should expect to mix anything and just be responsible for pre pro.

[Jayro_Rockola]

Originally Posted by rcm

Two things seem to attract clients:

1) Cool credits

2) Personal connections

You do not have the first yet and its tough to get, but you can get the second. Get to know all the bands in your area, become pals with them etc. Local bands are more likely to go with some one they know and trust.

I have to agree with this. Making sure every single client is taken care of and happy will beget more work for you. 'Cause the bass player for band A is the drummer in band C whose best friend of the singer in band B. Word of mouth is the best calling card of a budding studio owner/engineer/producer you can get.

[b-magical]

Mix great songs, even if you have to do it for free. You can do a great mix on a crappy tune and no one will listen. Get some files from some local artists and producers you think have great songs with great production and offer to mix it on spec . Even if they don't use it you can use it to put on your demo reel and get some practice time in. Build up your mix reel then when you have a potential paying gig you have quality product for them to hear.

Good Luck,
Brian

[corruptmary]

Originally Posted by Dopamine

<< 2 mixes per week? humble?? how fast do you do your mixes?? >>

Not sure if this was sarcasm. I try to finish mixes in a day.

<< Two things seem to attract clients: 1) Cool credits 2) Personal connections >>

Yeah, I guess I'll look harder and my connections and see if I can get anything poppin'.

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

wasn't meant to be sarcastic, are you talking 2 songs or two albums a day?? I'm guessing you mean songs, or else I am going way too slow! haha

[edcampos]

Originally Posted by Kadden Heart

and if the production isn't super good, i guess you can feel free to say "the engineerings leaves a little ot be desired, but the record is still awesome"

NICE! If the production sucks, blame the engineer.

Ed

[RCM - Ronan]

Originally Posted by Dopamine

Thanks Kadden, for the inspiration. The endless marketing and emails are starting to get exhausting, but I guess I just need to keep at it.

You never stop marketing in this business. Even once you have platinum major label credits you still have to keep marketing and promoting.

[AndrewsLaneRec.]

have you ever done any freebies? as much as i hated doing it, it brought in certain bands that attracted other, paying bands. or maybe offer doing like 1 or 2 songs free, and then maybe the band really likes what you do and decides to do the rest with you. if not, at least you did 2 songs that another band might hear. i dont think you can just expect bands to jump into your studio.

[AndrewsLaneRec.]

also, try building a niche. i've found mine in a small art town. i've gotten like 5 bands from around the area that are well known, and now i'm engineering their live shows after i've finished their records, i've had a full page article with pictures written about the studio in the newspaper because of it... it's all about the local scene at first.

also, what everyone else said... myspace every band you know, send messages, send demos.... and also make your place asthetically pleasing. i know that sounds weird, but i get so may compliments when people walk through the doors. it's like you're hanging out in a living room with your friends... that goes a long way in word of mouth, if everyone's comfortable as possible during their recording experience.

[chris carter]

Originally Posted by Dopamine

<< 2 mixes per week? humble?? how fast do you do your mixes?? >>

Not sure if this was sarcasm. I try to finish mixes in a day.

This might be your problem. I know that there is a general 'rule of thumb' that says one mix in one day, but you really have to ask yourself if you should follow it. If you AREN'T getting enough work right now, that means you have TIME and perhaps spending more time on your mixes will make them sound even better. That will make your clients happier and they will talk you up to other people. It will also mean that everyone that hears your mixes will be more impressed and more likely to hire you. Not to mention, if you spread it out a little, you can rest your ears and gain perspective - nothing like sleeping on a mix - that will add to the quality.

As well, you should consider if one day per mix is APPROPRIATE for the kinds of records you are mixing. Most folks I know that mix that way are typically mixing albums for rock bands so once they get the first song dialed in, the rest tend to flow much more quickly as a lot of settings will wind up very similar. But for other genres, that might not be realistic. For example, the pop and r&b songs I get for mixing almost always run over 100 tracks with 80+ of just vocals... and every song will be different and/or I'm typically mixing singles as opposed to albums. Just going through and organizing them, checking/redo-ing edits, autotuning (not that I EVER have to do that LOL), fixing various problems... that can be more than half a day right there and I haven't really done any real mixing yet. As well, printing all the mixes (album version, clean, radio edit, instrumental, a cappella, tv track.... realtime process), checking those (again, realtime process), and meticulously assembling masters, can be a couple hours. So that eats up another quarter of a day. Bear in mind that a lot of big-name supermixers who knock out hits one per day also have ASSISTANTS who do all the housekeeping on the tracks so the mixer only has to mix, and then they also print and generate the masters. It's amazing how much you can accomplish in one day when you have another talented person cutting down your workload. I have yet to meet a big-name mixer who didn't privately shower massive praise for his/her assistants.

[robot gigante]

Originally Posted by Kadden Heart

god i'm in the same boat don't worry,...

i've been going to all the locla shows i can. "hey guys, ou sounded GREAT, can i buy a copy of your album?, if you ever need any audio work done let me know i'd love ot be part of it :hands business card and buys CD:"
THEN,...get home,...listen to the CD, send them an e-mail, saying yo ulove the CD, (cite specific things) and if the production isn't super good, i guess you can feel free to say "the engineerings leaves a little ot be desired, but the record is still awesome"

Careful with that tactic. You want to be respected and friends with the producers and engineers around, and telling bands that the engineering on their CD leaves a bit to be desired can kill potential contacts for you. Maybe give them a sample of your work and let it speak for itself, but never bash another producer/engineer in order to try to obtain work... it can come back and bite you in the ass, hard. Also it might make the band feel insecure about their recording that they may have put a lot of work into. It's just not worth it to do it that way.

RCM's list of

1) Great credits

2) Personal connections

is right, and you should do nothing to jeopardize #2, even if the engineering that somebody did really sucks. If your work sounds awesome, then people will recognize that and you don't have to tell anyone that someone's else's work leaves a bit to be desired. Building up a client base takes time, and you have to be willing to put up with that fact.

[Kadden Heart]

Originally Posted by robot gigante

Careful with that tactic. You want to be respected and friends with the producers and engineers around, and telling bands that the engineering on their CD leaves a bit to be desired can kill potential contacts for you. Maybe give them a sample of your work and let it speak for itself, but never bash another producer/engineer in order to try to obtain work... it can come back and bite you in the ass, hard. Also it might make the band feel insecure about their recording that they may have put a lot of work into. It's just not worth it to do it that way.

RCM's list of

1) Great credits

2) Personal connections

is right, and you should do nothing to jeopardize #2, even if the engineering that somebody did really sucks. If your work sounds awesome, then people will recognize that and you don't have to tell anyone that someone's else's work leaves a bit to be desired. Building up a client base takes time, and you have to be willing to put up with that fact.

well, never bash another engineers work, i guess maybe i should specify being very discrete about it,..maybe not saing it leaves sometihng to be desired rather you can point out the good things in the mix (just so they notice you have ears, lol)
this is more of what i mean.

as some others here mentioned, the marketing never stops,...and hanging out with any other local engineers really can help.

i've met a producer in my area that does some realy cool bands, i basically beg to be his bitch every once in a while, i learn a lot,.. and meet more bands,...after a point it's now to where he can mention my name to lower budget, or small name bands.
(another thing to think about)

[Dopamine]

Thanks for all the comments and food for thought.

<< Mix great songs, even if you have to do it for free. >>
<< Have you ever done any freebies? >>

I don't mind doing this, but I can't seem to find that caliber of talent to work with. I'll keep looking and keep my head up!

[kats]

At entry level I think it would be pretty tough to get mixing jobs - those usually stay with the tracking studio.

I think thrillfactor pretty much understood and answered you properly. I know personally that if I'm tracking a band, a relationship develops where there is no doubt that I'll be mixing the project. The only exception is if they're just using the room for drums, or a good vocal chain etc.

You'll have to get in with a studio or production team to get in on mix projects.

[gsqd]

List of great credits is nice, but . . . . .

List of great contacts in the right places at the right time is nice, but . . .

Bottom line is you need a reel/demo/examples of your work that'll blow people away at the level you're aiming at - and people have to actually hear it!. Now the real problem with this, and the reason many otherwise talented mixers fall short, is that the quality of your reel is going to be directly related to the quality of recording, production and material your mixing!
You have to somehow get better projects to mix to build your reel in order to get better projects to mix, and on and on . . .!

My advice, such as it is, would be to assist those at levels above you and learn. Mix where you can and ask permission to mix roughs/dailies when and where possible. This way you'll learn on the job and start to get your sound, chops and reputation developing all at once.

Also be prepared to work hard for no credit and little/no pay.

Meanwhile, as Thrill and others have said, get out of the studio and network like a b'stard!

People who you need to know, need to know you!!!!

<GM>

[macleodgrant]

i was playing around recording the odd thing here and there initially and then decided that to do this for real i need a full project; an album that i would have credits on as the producer, mixer and recording engineer!

i think that's the best demonstration of your work you could possibly have. (i don't like to use the word Demo because that somehow suggests it's not professional imo)

through doing this project i'm treating each track like an individual with each song having a unique sound so it displays a variety of skills while also making an interesting record - no cutting corners like copying settings between songs

in my journey towards making the perfect mix (which definitely doesn't exist) i'm spending a lot of time on each mix, then going away, listening to it and then listening to other similar tracks, etc. to track down where the issues are and how i can fix them and i must say that i'm learning an incredible amount and the tracks are imo starting to sound professional. one thing we have is time so utilise that and do it for free until you have some great demonstration of your work

where i go after here i don't know but this is for me the first and most important step!

[Infernal Device]

Originally Posted by Dopamine

I really want to "make it" as a mixer. I have a nice studio, but simply need more steady practice mixing.

At this point I am finding it very difficult to attract new clients. I've tried marketing on Craig's List, using Myspace connections, approaching live bands, etc. Most of the more serious acts expect a "name" mixer. The less serious ones just don't have the budget.

Just wondering if there are any guys that have found a good business plan in 2008 to attract new clients. I've tried raising my rates, and I've tried lowering it (even offering free or "don't pay until you're 100% happy" deals).

My goal is humble: get an average of (2) mixes per week.

I feel as though I have excellent human relation and phone skills, so that's not the problem. I generally refer people to my website which has some samples of my mixes.

Not sure what else to do, but I desperately want this to work.

ANY ADVICE GREATLY APPRECIATED.

It's gonna be tough. Really tough. My opinion, all the craigslist stuff and myspace stuff is just done and finished. There are billions of them, all lumped into the beginner category. Usually offering nothing more than the band could do themselves. Artists with whom I work say they are sick and tired of a bunch of young people running up to them and pushing cards on them and trying to work with them. Giving the same speech to everyone does nothing. In my little Pennsylvania town there are dozens of 18-22 year-olds with tight black jeans, white belts and a witty t-shirt following bands around begging them to record at their "studio". I could imagine how it is in bigger markets.

Want to do it for real? Try this...

Find a band in your area you like. Really like. Go to EVERY show. Become friends. Buy them beer. Hang out. Offer to run sound at their practice and bring beer. Be friendly. Unless they are total a$$holes, they will let you at least do *something* for them in audio. Work your butt off making it beyond perfect. Stay in touch with them. Find band number 2. reapeat. Before you know it, you have a great reputation, and a great demo reel of work.

Or use craigslist and myspace.

[Kadden Heart]

Originally Posted by Infernal Device

It's gonna be tough. Really tough. My opinion, all the craigslist stuff and myspace stuff is just done and finished. There are billions of them, all lumped into the beginner category. Usually offering nothing more than the band could do themselves. Artists with whom I work say they are sick and tired of a bunch of young people running up to them and pushing cards on them and trying to work with them. Giving the same speech to everyone does nothing. In my little Pennsylvania town there are dozens of 18-22 year-olds with tight black jeans, white belts and a witty t-shirt following bands around begging them to record at their "studio". I could imagine how it is in bigger markets.

Want to do it for real? Try this...

Find a band in your area you like. Really like. Go to EVERY show. Become friends. Buy them beer. Hang out. Offer to run sound at their practice and bring beer. Be friendly. Unless they are total a$$holes, they will let you at least do *something* for them in audio. Work your butt off making it beyond perfect. Stay in touch with them. Find band number 2. reapeat. Before you know it, you have a great reputation, and a great demo reel of work.

Or use craigslist and myspace.

i (politely) have to disagree with the first part of that statement,..while he gives great advice in "picking a band,..so on"
if you're in a bigger area you'll need ot market more, there's no reason to be afraid of myspce adding/messaing (ass-kissing) card-pushing at shows etc...

i spent my whole life in the pittsburgh area until about 4 years ago,...
(again, politely i say..) i hated that area,.. there's no industry there anyway, so you're faced with TONS of scene brats running around that don't know how to set up anything other than a 57 to scream into because they're more worried about borrowing their girlfriends jeans.
in bigger areas it seems the bands, engineers, studios, are more aware of the "professional" surroundings and therefore more willing to deal with the up and comers and USE THEM TO DO STUFF (good for us beginners remember)
the small areas are just too overrun with sh** and therefore accept sh** as the standard and lump everyone together as that sh** category.

my point: unless you're 34 years old (or older) don't move to PA as an engineer
lol