Editing Live Drums In Pro Tools 7.4

[eclectic]

Hey guys,

I've got a session I recorded the other night and the drummer used a click. I actually recorded a track of his click and have mapped my tempo to it in Pro Tools (using Beat Detective). I'm looking for the easiest way to tighten up the drums. I tried doing a region separate and conform but it made a mess. This was conforming all tracks at once with Beat Detective.

I know, traditionally, editing live drums is a nightmare and there's just a few timing things I'd like to fix. I've never really edited drums before so any pointers would be appreciated. My new plan is to try and line up my kicks first, then go to snare and hopefully I'm close there, minus some sloppy fills. Also, i really don't understand elastic audio yet and don't know if this can help me here or not.

So, any pointers or tutorial links or other recommendations are highly appreciated.

[stuntbutt]

You have to edit the kit as a whole instrument. You can't move just the kick track.

I like to print the click for visual reference. Then I find some sections that feel great and look at their relationship to the click. Cut that section and paste it so the "1" is on the click. Make note of how the drummer maybe pushed some of the snare hits, etc. Remember that relationship when making edits on the rest of the section.

[jaydeluca]

do you have multi track beat detective? (music production toolkit with LE allows this)

It works a lot better if you do it a few bars at a time instead of the whole song at once.

and make sure you fill annnd crossfade somewhere between 5-10 ms.

this works for me usually anyway.

[eclectic]

I have multitrack BD... so, from what I'm gathering, try a couple bars at a time, do "collection" mode. and nudge the tracks a little behind the beat for better detection? This is from what I've gathered in some of my research and from here.

[jaydeluca]

throw it in grid mode... highlight a few bars (if you need to start a beat or two ahead to grab the first hit, then do so) make sure you either hit "capture selection" or enter it in manually. Then "analyze" using high or low reference, whatever you think works better for what your doing. Mess with all the analyze controls until the bars appear on the transients you want to be aligned to the grid. Region separate, region conform, and then clean it up.

It sometimes can be a lot of trial and error, and every once in a while you may have to fix some things manually. The more you do it the better you get though.

Someone else might have a better technique

[jval]

Make sure you hit 'capture selection' before conforming.
I usually group kick, sn, toms, and hh for detection and extend those triggers to OH and room to seperate. Sensitivity usually ends up around 40-50%... just skim through to check for bad triggers. And yeah, do sections at a time. The closer the drummer is to the click, the more you can do at once.

[tamasdragon]

Or use elastic audio. If you unsure, check out the tutorials at digitv.
Tamas Dragon

[otobianki74]

the fastest way for me to edit an entire performance is beat detective, but you still need to check for bunk fades, etc.

it sounds like you only need to fix a few spots. I would just use your ears and listen to the performance against the click track (or not) and nudge whatever sections you feel need improvement.

and as a previous poster said, you need to edit all the drum take tracks together in the same group.

oto

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by otobianki74

the fastest way for me to edit an entire performance is beat detective
oto

I disagree. Elastic audio is much much faster for me if the drummer is pretty good.

If it needs major surgery i find i am faster doing it by hand. This allows me to do manual fades at the same time and really get the track tight without having to fix a bunch of beat detective errors.

[otobianki74]

Originally Posted by Mayor999

I disagree. Elastic audio is much much faster for me if the drummer is pretty good.

well that's why I said for me.... I'm not schooled in elastic audio as much as I should be. thank logic for that distraction!

btw, using elastic on groups, does that keep multi-tracks (i.e. drum groups) phase coherent? processing like that scares me which is why I opt for beat detectiving as there's no time stretching involved.

oto

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by otobianki74

well that's why I said for me.... I'm not schooled in elastic audio as much as I should be. thank logic for that distraction!

btw, using elastic on groups, does that keep multi-tracks (i.e. drum groups) phase coherent? processing like that scares me which is why I opt for beat detectiving as there's no time stretching involved.

oto

Yep... check out the cool videos of multi track elastic fantastic on digi's website.

[Matty Rich]

Def use Elastic Time. Do a Save as or dup ur playlists so u can go back. but i work with a well known producer that has me quantize everything. its the most incredible process ive ever seen. Props to 7.4

It is the easiest thing ever invented. Above someone said to check out DigiTV thats where i got my first look at it, and i havnt looked back.

[LIQUIDAETHER]

Hello.

My "problem" with Elastic Audio is, that i like to record with a lot of mics on a lot of cymbals (HiHat, Ride, 2 Crashes, Overheads and Ambience-Mics + Toms, Snare and Bassdrum as well of course) and that EA-Editing always makes the phase between the mics "wobble". I tried different plug-in settings but nothing really worked in a satisfying way. What are your settings to keep the phase on a lot of mics intact? Btw editing with EA is a very nice thing since it lets the music still breathe afzer editing (if you want to).

Looking forward to reading from you. Regards.

-MD

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by LIQUIDAETHER

Hello.

My "problem" with Elastic Audio is, that i like to record with a lot of mics on a lot of cymbals (HiHat, Ride, 2 Crashes, Overheads and Ambience-Mics + Toms, Snare and Bassdrum as well of course) and that EA-Editing always makes the phase between the mics "wobble". I tried different plug-in settings but nothing really worked in a satisfying way. What are your settings to keep the phase on a lot of mics intact? Btw editing with EA is a very nice thing since it lets the music still breathe afzer editing (if you want to).

Looking forward to reading from you. Regards.

-MD

I -always- use polyphonic. I think it sounds the best and keeps the phase most in-tact. After you quantize make sure you go through and listen closely... anywhere where it starts to sound funky then delete some marker/slide them around until it sounds better then move on.

Do you render with X-form? To me it makes everything sound so much better.

[MarkRB]

I was pretty disappointed with the sound of Elastic audio.

I'm not sure why because I was pretty sure the "fill and xfade" function in BD does pretty much the same thing but I never had a problem with that.

Like all other time shift processes it makes the audio immediately 'grainy'.

That said I've only tried it at home on my M-audio system. Still haven't upgraded to 7.4 at work. Maybe there is a difference in sound quality?

If Elastic Audio does sound good on HD then it would be a better option for those tracks where 5 or 6 fixes are all you need. I still need to investigate EA fully.

[LIQUIDAETHER]

Originally Posted by Mayor999

I -always- use polyphonic. [...]

Do you render with X-form? To me it makes everything sound so much better.

Hello.

I use the polyphonic algorithm as well, but i really can´t find a %-setting that seems to at least not totally **** up everything. Hehe. Too i also render with X-Form and this indeed lets the stuff sound a lot better. No question about that.

What i am wondering about is that a lot of people in the net are telling that EA ist THE shit and that i sounds sooo amazing and all that and i ask myself "Did I buy a different version of EA or what? Or am i just using too much microphones?" Haha.

[celticrogues]

Originally Posted by LIQUIDAETHER

Hello.

I use the polyphonic algorithm as well, but i really can´t find a %-setting that seems to at least not totally **** up everything. Hehe.

I struggled with this for awhile too until I noticed that on the videos on digi's website they don't seem to mess with the Event sensitivity % setting at all. I tried just leaving it at 100% and it worked great. Granted this was for fixing timing issues by hand (I didn't need to consolidate anything) but it worked great for me.

Even going through and editing things by hand for the whole song has been way faster for me than any other technique I've used

Cheers!
-Mike

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by LIQUIDAETHER

Hello.

I use the polyphonic algorithm as well, but i really can´t find a %-setting that seems to at least not totally **** up everything. Hehe. Too i also render with X-Form and this indeed lets the stuff sound a lot better. No question about that.

What i am wondering about is that a lot of people in the net are telling that EA ist THE shit and that i sounds sooo amazing and all that and i ask myself "Did I buy a different version of EA or what? Or am i just using too much microphones?" Haha.

Yep I don't touch it... ever.

[LIQUIDAETHER]

Originally Posted by celticrogues

I struggled with this for awhile too until I noticed that on the videos on digi's website they don't seem to mess with the Event sensitivity % setting at all. I tried just leaving it at 100% and it worked great. Granted this was for fixing timing issues by hand (I didn't need to consolidate anything) but it worked great for me.

Even going through and editing things by hand for the whole song has been way faster for me than any other technique I've used

Hey mike.

I am also leaving the Event sensitivity at 100%. But what about the percent of the EA plug-in?

[LIQUIDAETHER]

Originally Posted by Mayor999

Yep I don't touch it... ever.

You mean the settings on the polyphonic plug-in?

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by LIQUIDAETHER

You mean the settings on the polyphonic plug-in?

Yeah I don't even look at it, so I don't know what the controls are off the top of my head. I just flip on polyphonic and leave it at its default setting.

[Crisblm]

Hey guys, this is gonna sound stupid, but i'm all new to the whole concept of manually creating markers and stuff to replace original drum sounds with samples.Can anybody please help me almost like step by step?Will be appreciated!

[Cookie]

The fastest way for me is still to print a copy of the click for visual ref. .

tab to transient, insert an edit point and move it to where it needs to go.

I feel I have more control over things this way as something always seems to get goofy in elastic or beat detective.

[Crisblm]

Thanx alot man! So if I create markers at the transients can I like get the samples to jump in time with the marker, becuase that is my struggle....every hit i must move sepertly until it's perfectly in time with the transient of the original hit.

[Myr]

Originally Posted by Crisblm

Thanx alot man! So if I create markers at the transients can I like get the samples to jump in time with the marker, becuase that is my struggle....every hit i must move sepertly until it's perfectly in time with the transient of the original hit.

Wouldn't it be easier to get drumagog?

When it comes to editing drums, I always do it manually to the grid while monitoring with the click on. I know, slave labor, but it sounds better to me.

[Crisblm]

Hey man, yeah i did use drumagog but it's so inconsistent from time to time.Software is a bitch sometimes.