HERE IT IS! The 500 Series Shootout Files!

[tone delux]

Great. Thanks for taking the time. I really liked the API. there were some that i hated...funny. They almost sounded like they were out of phase or something. to each their own and as fletcher says. ymmv.

[AMIEL]

To don't say the same thing as others ..

TODA RABA James!


This was a great ShootOut!

[ISedlacek]

I listened to several samples of male vocals and I could not hear much difference between them. They all sounded very similar to me. Seems the principal difference is the brand name and design of the front desk ... Inside probably very similar. Moving few inches with the mic could probably make bigger sound difference than reconnecting to another preamp ?

Heroic shootout though

[stevesmithfan]

Nice work. I liked the Shadow Hills Gama steel mode the best. Second I liked the Purple BIZ. I didn't care for the LaChapells, a little too warm for me.

[timandmonica]

@ JAMES: No insightful comment here, just a very sincere THANK YOU for all of the work involved from beginning to end in this ambitious project. I don't have the money to shuffle around to be able to demo more than one of these at a time for myself, so this project is priceless to someone in my position.

Again - THANK YOU!

[MadGuitrst]

I think Ivo has a valid point in that I would not buy a rack and fill it with every variation of 500 pre on earth - it's just not worth it. It's a point that I share in general anyway. Mic makes more of a difference and position can (and often does) make all of the difference in the world to. But then, I'm not an engineer, just a musician who plays the engineer part at the home studio.

Anyway.....some thoughts.....

Male Vocals:
I liked the Shadow Hills nickel mode best overall because it was a bit lively but never essy, which I found the steel mode to be overly so.

Interestingly enough, when the singer started belting it out on the lines, "Is it me, is it me?", I like the way the MintJulep handled it best.

In general, the 512 sounds like the 512 - mid forward. To me, it doesn't sound natural at all, but that doesn't mean bad, just like it's EQ'd already.

Female Vocals:
The LaChappel 583s stood out on the female - big and round. The 583v was much too essy for me.

Many of the pres were similar on her in that they weren't big at all and the esses were too present for my tastes. The OSAs weren't too essy, but they were a bit like plain yogurt.

Acoustic Guitar
Most were very similar. Mic placement would make MUCH greater difference than MOST of the preamps on this track. Still a few stood out, for better or for worse.

The MA5 stood out the most by far, but it was odd - it had a metallic ring to it.
The P1 was nicely balanced. I'd probably pick this as my AC 500 pre based on those sample.
The OSA MP1L had a big bottom while having a bit more highs, which you could still hear. Again, it was maybe a bit metallic (phasey? - as someone mentioned).
I thought the Gama steel would stand out but it didn't - and the nickel was too round IMO. The 583v had a little more up top (just slightly) but the LaChappels didn't stand out as much as I thought they might have.

Electric Guitar
The 583s and 583v both sounded like they blew the grill off of my speakers! Wow! Open, punchy, lots of depth, They were right there.
The SH was good. The nickel was balanced and lively. The steel, which I thought might sound the way the P1 did, reviewed a lot of grit - if that's what you like....too much for me - but lacked a tad in the mids relative to the rest of it's sonic spectrum.
The P1 was very good all around - very balanced once again and nicely open.
In all the LaChapelles were the decisive victors.
The 512 was the 512, the SM57 of rock guitar preamps. Sounded good......but that LaChapelle.....I'm still feeling it.......

And The Winners Are:
LaChappelle - a rock guitarist sonic orgasm.
P1 - always good, sometimes great, always balanced.
Shadow Hills - I liked it best for vocals, which can be important - don't ya think?
It is a also a good choice because of the different modes. It went from (relative to itself) most neutral (discreet), bigger and/or more present (nickel), and excited (steel) - too much so on the the singers IMO. It can sound large, open, and lively, neutral and balanced, or excited. It's the 500 form factor chameleon.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

Shadow Hills - It's the 500 form factor chameleon.

Interesting how people hear things. Also, I guess it depends on the testing routine as well. I have both the Biz and GAMA in my 500 box, and I would call the Biz the chameleon, but I don't think they really worked the biz in this shootout. I mean,I don't believe they tried to mess with the dual switch, and played back and forth with the front end and back end gains to come up with differing sounds. In all fairness, that wasn't the purpose of the shootout. And it's one of the reasons that shootouts, as nice as they are to get a general overall "vibe" of a pre, shouldn't be the deciding factor on which is right for you. Only using it will give you that answer. If I listened to the shootout only, I'd be filling my box with GAMA's, but that's probably the last pre that I'll add. Before that I'll be adding more Biz's, and probably more API's.

[lrieves]

Originally Posted by drBill

Interesting how people hear things. Also, I guess it depends on the testing routine as well. I have both the Biz and GAMA in my 500 box, and I would call the Biz the chameleon, but I don't think they really worked the biz in this shootout. I mean,I don't believe they tried to mess with the dual switch, and played back and forth with the front end and back end gains to come up with differing sounds. In all fairness, that wasn't the purpose of the shootout. And it's one of the reasons that shootouts, as nice as they are to get a general overall "vibe" of a pre, shouldn't be the deciding factor on which is right for you. Only using it will give you that answer. If I listened to the shootout only, I'd be filling my box with GAMA's, but that's probably the last pre that I'll add. Before that I'll be adding more Biz's, and probably more API's.

Very well said!

[cfdude]

Thanks James for all of the hard work! I just wanted to comment on the female vocals. I really like the Shadow Hills Steel mode, it just sounds like a record to me. Fits the mix really well. It complements the mic very well also. A lot of the other preamps are to woofy with the TLM49. This one seems to keep it punchy, has the right speed and rolls a little of the mud off. A little compression and it's money. Very nice. I just bought a TLM49 and can't wait to use it. I also own a Stephen Paul Modded U87, so I know a good mic when I hear it. The TLM49 is no slouch with the right preamp!

[James 'LA' Lugo]

I love the TLM49

[dick swifter]

Originally Posted by drBill

Interesting how people hear things. Also, I guess it depends on the testing routine as well. I have both the Biz and GAMA in my 500 box, and I would call the Biz the chameleon, but I don't think they really worked the biz in this shootout. I mean,I don't believe they tried to mess with the dual switch, and played back and forth with the front end and back end gains to come up with differing sounds. In all fairness, that wasn't the purpose of the shootout. And it's one of the reasons that shootouts, as nice as they are to get a general overall "vibe" of a pre, shouldn't be the deciding factor on which is right for you. Only using it will give you that answer. If I listened to the shootout only, I'd be filling my box with GAMA's, but that's probably the last pre that I'll add. Before that I'll be adding more Biz's, and probably more API's.

Agreed, well said. Thanks James!

[EvilE]

man, they all sound great. wish i could hear these files at a higher res....it's a little hard to hear the differences between some sources. Guitars were the easiest for me to hear. Especially like the MA5 (nice and bright) and the Shadow Hills. Interesting how the 512 seemed a little lackluster in comparison to some.....could be level issues. Also, like i said, full bandwidth would be sweet.

Great work though! Awesome resource. now....which one to buy.....?!?!?

[BryanHyde]

thanks for doing this. didnt really spend too much time checking everything out, but listened to female and electric guitar samples and i must say,

that shadow hills mono gama has got some SERIOUS balls.

for electric guitar i had to go with the mono gama in nickel mode and a p1, mono gama sounds beefy and p1 just sounds clean and energetic.

for female vocals i have to say...i liked the api 512c..it just sounded right. like a final take. although theres something about the gold that had a certain characteristic that sounded interesting. again, i also like how the p1 and mono nickel sounded :24 seconds into the song.

great shootout, ive got to check the rest out!!

[Tone Laborer]

I finally DL'ed the guitars and listened in the studio. My thoughts are similar to many of the opinions above. I like bright pres on Acou so I have that bias.
Notables, in no order. Acoustic-

512c seemed louder than some others, EMred in particular. One of the biggest.
EM-Blue. All the EM stuff seemed to have slightly less level, but I really liked the way the timbre sat in the track.
MA5. Great presence. Round and 3d. I also heard a ring of some kind.
P1. Clear, 3D, great fit.
Mono Discrete. Sounded identical to the 512c on this guitar.

Metal Guitar--nice playing James.

The Biz and P1 both "won" for me. Bright, glassy and crunchy. warm not harsh.
Em Gold- I liked it for a different flavor.
Mono Discrete- Sounded louder than 512c in this example. Nice though.

[Retinal]

Thanks a lot for this James, I'm just going to fill my lunchbox!
Too bad for the Germanium pre, I'm curious about it.
We need shootout for the 500 series compressors too! plz

And just about that, any impression about the mc77 modular? the purple audio i mean

[ScumBum]

Thanks James , I've been really wanting to hear some of these pres for awhile .

They all sounded like they could make a great record if you had to pick one .

I'm gonna listen to the samples for awhile................

The La Chapelle 583s sounds amazing

The 512 has this character that sets it apart though, up front mids but never too much of the tubby mids and sounds like it will stack well with other tracks come mix time with less EQ.

A Designs Gold sounds great too....................

[Aurora T.]

If I had to choose one preamp to do it all:

Api 512.

Maybe not number one in every application, but always flattering and sounding like a record.

At least in rock/pop music I don't want the source to sound exactly like the source.

I like the source to sound like a record.

The Api is giving you these ready-made tracks that won't need a ton of work to sound fantastic in a mix.

Imho.

[roger]

yes.....512 is always good (at worst)....and that's ok with me.

[apadua]

uuhhh..

Are the links to the audio clips down. nothing is happening when I click on the mp3 files.

[stevetgn]

Originally Posted by apadua

uuhhh..

Are the links to the audio clips down. nothing is happening when I click on the mp3 files.

Bump the above!

[popvulture]

Clips aren't working for me, either... all I get is a file called "clear.gif." Bandwidth exceeded?

[popvulture]

I'd really love to be able to hear the clips, so if someone could tell me if I'm doing something wrong, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Maybe they're just not up anymore, and if that's the case I'd love to know if they're posted anywhere else online. I've got geeking out to do, dammit! :)

[Lynn Fuston]

What? You can't hear them?

Must be your attitude.

"Are you not amused?"

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by drBill

I mean,I don't believe they tried to mess with the dual switch, and played back and forth with the front end and back end gains to come up with differing sounds.

I agree, i guess they just went for basic, cause about all pres you can deliver different sounds just by a simple pad switch or a different mic for that matter, even thought the shootout still gives some hope its hard to judge off mp3 files. I also strongly believe using a pre that sits in a mix vs listening to one solo, hell alot of gear can sound great solo, a 737 sounds great solo but ive never liked one in a mix.

[glitch]

They probably disappeared when they did some GS maintenance.

It would be really cool if someone could host a zip with the whole lot of them.

Anyone willing?

[glitch]

Bump, can anyone post up the files please?

Thanks!

[James 'LA' Lugo]

I am so sorry about the loss of the files, mostly sorry for myself...lol That's a half day down the drain. I am knee deep in the midst of the busiest time in my career. The mp3's may not happen till after I get back from Vegas on July 4th. I am sorry but they will be reposted I promise.

[glitch]

Ouch, yeah, that sucks. Thanks James.

[Tangible]

can't wait to hear these tests....

[cloud10]

Is there any way someone could please repost the files? This is too good of a resource not to ask.