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20th August 2004, 09:41 PM
| #1 |
| Gear maniac  Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: germany-turkey
Posts: 218
| tricks to bring things to the back of the mix hello i'm curious how you guys are putting instruments to sit behind your vocals when they are in your face. i guess with different reverbs and different compression etc. but what are your other tricks to to give a track a deepness? how would you setup a reverb for that? how do you put stuff to the 2nd row? thanx |
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20th August 2004, 10:12 PM
| #2 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 5,051
| When I read the headline I thought you meant "back" like behind the listener. As that one might be interesting as well I think I´ll contribute it. Sounds from behind a listener are perceived as having less HF content. So, if you want to make a track to appear like that take out some highs and pan it rather to the site. For just keeping it in the background in the way you meant it I believe the same rule applies ( in the contrary tracks with lots of HF tend to poke out of the mix ) only that you don´t place them too far to the stereo spectrums outer edges. The other point is that close reflections in a reverb lets the source appear near, so you would apply echo with little to no close reflections. Someone will correct me if I´m wrong. Ruphus
__________________ "Am I the only one that tires of this "everything is subjective" watered-down-pop-culture-pseudo-philosophy bullshit?" Bravin Neff Wolgang Burr, former office leader of the German Chancellor before committee of inquiry: "You would not believe what unusual happens daily." "Patience, young Skywalker - let the object of your desires come to you." JTR "All thinking men are atheists." Ernest Hemingway |
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21st August 2004, 08:11 AM
| #3 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,455
| Reverb without predelay puts things in the back, also it helps to catu some highs and lows. Furthermore, simple balancing, making something softer relative to something else can give the impression of depth... Greetings, Dirk
__________________ -progress takes away what forever took to find- Dave Matthews |
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21st August 2004, 10:07 AM
| #4 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Phoenix
Posts: 6,672
 | Yeah......reverb w/o early reflections and volume can place things further back in a mix... Also doing some reduction of the highs will contribute to the effect also....like stated before. Pull up a mix....and start messing with things.....add more verb...then delay the verb a little with no feedback....then try lowering the volulme a little.....then lower a low pass filter set to 8Khz a few db.......see what happens... Also cutting some 1-3K out of the track will set it back a little as those freq are what our ears are most sensitive to....this won't set it back a lot...but a little.
__________________ _________________ "What is a crossfire hurricane & why wasn't I born in one?" Randy Wright http://www.myspace.com/djui5 |
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22nd August 2004, 02:11 AM
| #5 | |
| Gear Guru Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York City
Posts: 10,802
| Re: tricks to bring things to the back of the mix Quote:
If its not working its either one of these or its the arrangement itself(instruments all in the same range playing the same notes). The above will help. But it won't cure a bad arrangement.  Deepness(or depth) is done with effects. How you do it is song specific. | |
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22nd August 2004, 10:55 AM
| #6 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Munich - Germany
Posts: 1,688
| The Sony Transient modulator also helps pushing things forward / or behind  |
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22nd August 2004, 04:58 PM
| #7 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Earbleed, Iowa
Posts: 590
| Dark Side of The Moon is a great example of arrangement and depth... listen to it with your desire of depth in mind. This response is a teaser, no charge. |
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22nd August 2004, 05:13 PM
| #8 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 3,808
| Loudist does your avatar say "mono is everything" ? or "everything is mono? I've been wondering for a few days. 
__________________ www.thejoti.com www.myspace.com/thejoti http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYtPFPrHut0 ¨But, then again, I'm British and think you Yanks with your fancy pre for each track are a bunch of weirdos¨ Mark |
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22nd August 2004, 05:23 PM
| #9 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: USA
Posts: 1,258
| Quote:
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22nd August 2004, 05:28 PM
| #10 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Earbleed, Iowa
Posts: 590
| Quote:
Thats a buck. | |
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22nd August 2004, 06:04 PM
| #11 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: USA
Posts: 1,258
| Quote:
Well then... Say Loudist, have you heard the surround version of Dark Side of the Moon yet? (yes or no  ) | |
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22nd August 2004, 07:46 PM
| #12 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 3,808
| Let me know your paypal account for the 1$ deposit. Thanks for the info, very cool avatar by the way But my question is if mono is everything, or everything is mono.. like some one said in another thread "to pre or not to pre". Deep stuff. Mono in spanish means monkey  . In my third world lovely country SACD is not known. Movie DVD's are starting to become popular though yeay In other words, I WANT TO LISTEN TO THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON 5.1 !!!!!!!!!
__________________ www.thejoti.com www.myspace.com/thejoti http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYtPFPrHut0 ¨But, then again, I'm British and think you Yanks with your fancy pre for each track are a bunch of weirdos¨ Mark |
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22nd August 2004, 08:10 PM
| #13 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Earbleed, Iowa
Posts: 590
| Quote:
Actually, no one can accuse me of not giving back. Jose, you are right, it was in response to an avatar question. Your account had been reset. And thank you for using IPS ( Internet Pomposity Services) | |
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22nd August 2004, 08:20 PM
| #14 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 3,808
| Yeah, sorry.. please let me know your rate for answering the question "is mono everything, or if everthing is mono" ? . I would like to get 2 distressors, but if everything is mono.. I will only get 1. Do you know if ADAM sells only one monitor ?.. sorry , to many questions.. hope I can get a deal on this one. thanks
__________________ www.thejoti.com www.myspace.com/thejoti http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYtPFPrHut0 ¨But, then again, I'm British and think you Yanks with your fancy pre for each track are a bunch of weirdos¨ Mark |
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22nd August 2004, 09:00 PM
| #15 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Earbleed, Iowa
Posts: 590
| Jose, in my avatar, if you look at the "So I can't bite my ass" cone around my neck, you would understand why everything is mono, mono is everything to me. Hope that clears it up. |
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22nd August 2004, 11:54 PM
| #16 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 3,808
| This brings the thought of the weird cones on the Nautilus monitors.  Which brings me to believe, that stereo are 2 monos! 5.1= 6 monos! Mono in spanish means monkey. Monkey could be taken.. as MON (1) KEY (note) 1 NOTE. That is why they made the movie 12 MONKEYS, because we have 12 notes. I need a girlfriend  Sundays without a girl suck grudge
__________________ www.thejoti.com www.myspace.com/thejoti http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYtPFPrHut0 ¨But, then again, I'm British and think you Yanks with your fancy pre for each track are a bunch of weirdos¨ Mark |
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23rd August 2004, 04:24 AM
| #17 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Earbleed, Iowa
Posts: 590
| Waiter, I'll have what he's having, and make that girl thing a double. So, in films when they are saying "Mono y Mono" they are really saying monkey and monkey? No wonder you guys think Americans are weird... |
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23rd August 2004, 06:02 AM
| #18 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Phoenix
Posts: 6,672
| Actually 5.1 is 5 monos with 1 mono under 120 (or 80 depending on your surround format) hz. OR 5.1 mono's... Wonder if I can get 5.1 mono hookers...
__________________ _________________ "What is a crossfire hurricane & why wasn't I born in one?" Randy Wright http://www.myspace.com/djui5 |
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23rd August 2004, 10:07 AM
| #19 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,809
| No hookers for DJ - he's driving a Ferrari already  Jo |
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23rd August 2004, 04:53 PM
| #20 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 3,808
| Quote:
now the question is, do you want 5.1 hookers to sorround you or you wan't to sorround them ? To pre or not to pre ? Is everything mono, or is mono everthing ? to plug or to get plugged ?
__________________ www.thejoti.com www.myspace.com/thejoti http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYtPFPrHut0 ¨But, then again, I'm British and think you Yanks with your fancy pre for each track are a bunch of weirdos¨ Mark | |
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26th August 2004, 02:45 PM
| #21 |
| Gear maniac  Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kungsbacka
Posts: 155
| Put stuff back In my view.. A distant sound will be Quiter , have less energy at high frequencies and contain more reverberation than a close sound. These three facts can be used when mixing soundsources and help us in our struggle to fool the ear that some instruments are played further away in a room/space than others, and that although they were all recorded with close michrophone techniques in fairly dry rooms, one at a time to a multitrack machine. Yours /Toby 
__________________ free monthly recording tip newsletter. Sign up @www.cascatoma.com or send me some tips! |
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31st August 2004, 05:28 AM
| #22 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 601
| Everybody remember their psycho-acoustic cues, now! |
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31st August 2004, 03:19 PM
| #23 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Earbleed, Iowa
Posts: 590
| During a thunderstorm, go outside and listen to the thunder. All answers are contained in the thunder, grasshopper. |
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1st September 2004, 05:18 AM
| #24 |
| Gear Head Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: salt lake city
Posts: 54
| djui5, you dont want 5.1 hookers with mono, you would get really tired, and that .1 hooker would most likely a midget |
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2nd September 2004, 02:58 PM
| #25 |
| Gear maniac  Join Date: May 2004 Location: London
Posts: 262
| Well Gem, Looks like you have your answer...I hope so at least, cause this post looks like its wandered off... I absolutely know what your saying here, I was going to ask the very same question. I have to do this DIDO flavoured mix (its ok I'm getting paid!) And as you know its quite dreamy and sensual. Mainly I'm stuggling to get the kick and snare to feel softer, despite having what I believe is the right rhythm and tones in the kit, the drums are either taking my head off or disappearing into insignificance. So far, the experiments I've tried with reverbs have resulted mainly in adding clatter and chang, rather than true depth. I will be evaluating the ideas suggested here - can I ask...how many instruments do you tend to keep at full fidelity? I tried this approach, cutting of a lot of top and ended up with a mix that sounded a bit dull. |
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2nd September 2004, 05:36 PM
| #26 | |
| Gear Guru Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York City
Posts: 10,802
| Quote:
The best reverbs add both depth and fidelity. The cheap stuff tends to thin things out. If you are looking to add long reverbs to the drums its a good idea to use something different on the kick and snare. Or just do it on one. | |
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2nd September 2004, 05:41 PM
| #27 |
| Gear maniac Join Date: May 2004 Location: London
Posts: 262
| I'm using Waves plugs but also my Lexicon MPX1. |
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2nd September 2004, 05:46 PM
| #28 | |
| Gear Guru Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York City
Posts: 10,802
| Quote:
grudge | |
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2nd September 2004, 07:30 PM
| #29 |
| Gear maniac Join Date: May 2004 Location: London
Posts: 262
| aw c'mon, can't be that bad. Ok, tell me what do you use... |
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2nd September 2004, 07:45 PM
| #30 | |
| Gear Guru Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York City
Posts: 10,802
| Quote:
I do own a lot of outboard effects with my favorites 2 or 3 of each. But it wouldn't be a bad idea to invest in 2-3 good pieces for vocals alone. Vocals normally expose cheap effects worst than anything. For the filler stuff you have a lot to choose from. And a lot of the stuff can be brought second hand for way less than the price of a so-called must have plug in. I think a must have is an Eventide. Good for vocals and special Sh*t. | |
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