Paramore-Riot

[Renegade Prod]

Wow, thanks a lot .. i couldn't have got a better answer from a better person

Congratulations on how it turned out, hope you're happy with it ... you give young producers like me reference material, and a lot to work towards!

Thanks again, will keep these ideas in mind

[audiomichael]

Originally Posted by zboy2854

I'm sure you can also live with having the platinum record for this album hanging on your wall...

...And a Grammy nom.

[Colossal]

Originally Posted by Shostakovich

It doesn't have to try to rip my face off

ahh dude, thats what i love about this record (well one of many things), the loudness and aggression, this is exactly the sort of record that suits the triggering/compression/all the other stuff people moan about.

[u b k]

avril lavigne called... she wants her sound back.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Kadden Heart]

i know you said drum samples are light,...if not at all,..but,..when they are present what are you using?
made samples form the actual kit? a pre-manufactured library?

and i assume you're using some kind of gating/expanding on the snares?
if so are you heavily gating it or just expanding,.. maybe using verb to make it sound fuller?

[tomvan]

To those of you who don't like their music...No ones telling you to buy it so calm down and play nice

But if everyone else is buying it ...it solidifies my thoughts of how good it actually is.
The first time I put it up in my monitors my bald head grew hair.
Fat, sonic and wide. Everyone that came in the studio for the next week I made sit down and take a listen. Its in your face like someone else had commented on. Thats what I like


I am honored by the fact that Dave and Dan are willing to talk about the project. And since the day I took my first listen I wondered how to get ahold of you and if you would answer my one simple question.
And then this thread appeared out of no where

How did you get it so wide and thick. That sucker wraps behind my head
Double tracked mono tracks? double stereo tracks? duplicated and shifted. some imager that actually works?
Its a kick ass Album, great work....awesome work
Peace
Tom

http://www.lost-studios.com

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by stereomixer

We usually have a routine. I do prepro, Dan does drums and edits, Kato does Bass and guitars and John does Vocals. Dan sets up mix and gets the awesome sounds, I push faders till its done.

It sounds like you have an interesting and successfully team-oriented approach to tracking and mixing. That's really cool. From a business perspective I'm curious how credits and points are handled with this type of arrangement. Does the record say mixed by by David Ben? Or does it say mixed by Dan and David? Are points shared?

thanks,
Brad

[stereomixer]

Everyone at the studio works together and has clients of their own they produce and mix,
Just lately we all took on a project together as a team and developed them. That is the band The Urgency from Burlington Vermont.
If you read Album credits everyone is credited with their specific job on each record. Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

It sounds like you have an interesting and successfully team-oriented approach to tracking and mixing. That's really cool. From a business perspective I'm curious how credits and points are handled with this type of arrangement. Does the record say mixed by by David Ben? Or does it say mixed by Dan and David? Are points shared?

thanks,
Brad

[Brad McGowan]

Thanks for the insight. I often work on projects with a few friends and the band ends up crediting them with "assisted by". I've been thinking lately that everyone deserves more specific credits, because it really ends up being a team effort.

After reading so many positive (and negative) comments about the Paramore record I think I'm going to have to buy it and see what all the fuss is about. Congrats on your success!

thanks,
Brad

[dual0568]

It really annoys me that members are criticizing a record by this man who gets terrific results AND is working on some of the most popular current albums. IMO there are hundreds of posts by people who have no clue what they're doing, offering their opinion on subjects they shouldn't be. So instead of lambasting this man like a mob of crazed yokels, keep your negative opinins to yourselves and hopefully we get
David to want to come back

[fooman]

+1000000

Good lord why would anyone want to talk down to a few of the guys who are making some of the most popular rock music of the current times? If you don't like the music, you could probably learn something if they stick around!

If you don't like the music, then cool say so politely. All the "crap" that's being said it uncalled for.

Anywho, i've learned something from this thread. VCA groups! ;)

[NoizyNinja]

Lots of people here need that negative attention because that's the only way anyone will ever notice them.

I dig the Paramor stuff and I think it's great that David has given us a peak into what went into it.

Thanks David. I'm really enjoying this thread. I also like your east coast approach to handling some of these comments.

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by NoizyNinja

Lots of people here need that negative attention because that's the only way anyone will ever notice them.

I dig the Paramor stuff and I think it's great that David has given us a peak into what went into it.

Thanks David. I'm really enjoying this thread. I also like your east coast approach to handling some of these comments.

Agreed, keep the good stuff coming! Don't let the haters ruin a good, informative thread...

[stereomixer]

A forum on the internet wound not really be a forum without haters. That is a fact.

After I Produced and Mixed the Elvis 30 #1 hits, this forum would be considered lightweight, trust me.

Those people use spectrum analyzers and do not know production. They are a lot tougher crowd, and you cannot reason with them.

Gearslutz is a place for us all to share and provide good solid help for people coming through the ranks. Some of us here had mentors and people that we respected to give us recording advice. There is not enough of that anymore. This is a place to come to learn.

If we have learned anything at all over the past few years on my team, its that we all have a lot of room to grow and better records to make. If everyone gets the job done right you will have your turn at success as you should. We are all scratching the surface every day.

Originally Posted by zboy2854

Agreed, keep the good stuff coming! Don't let the haters ruin a good, informative thread...

[luctellier]

Hey David,

I found those 2 clips on YouTube. It's the vocals acapella bounces from Misery Business and Crush with all the effects printed. Don't know where they got that but it was interesting to hear that.

YouTube - Paramore - Misery Business Studio Acapella

YouTube - Paramore - Crushcrushcrush Studio Acapella

Peace
LT

[audiomichael]

Originally Posted by luctellier

I found those 2 clips on YouTube.

Hmmm. Something about that seems totally illegal!!!

Nice arrangement and harmonies though! Darn that YouTube compression...even still...I just learned a ton o' sh*t by listening to that.

David you're a class act!

[Renegade Prod]

That really did benefit me a hell of a lot
(and yeah too bad about the youtube comp)

But still can tell how they would sound, harmonies are awesome, great arrangement.

You and your team are great Dave.
Hope you're not too pissed that someone has them, guess its quite inedible these days.

.... the best bit is how people are commenting what program he used to remove the instruments haha ... good times

[msquared]

Originally Posted by u b k

avril lavigne called... she wants her sound back.

Page #1 of this thread called. They want their joke back.

[Renegade Prod]

Originally Posted by msquared

Page #1 of this thread called. They want their joke back.

HAHAHA +1,000,000

[Kadden Heart]

Originally Posted by luctellier

Hey David,

I found those 2 clips on YouTube. It's the vocals acapella bounces from Misery Business and Crush with all the effects printed. Don't know where they got that but it was interesting to hear that.

YouTube - Paramore - Misery Business Studio Acapella

YouTube - Paramore - Crushcrushcrush Studio Acapella

Peace
LT

wowserz,....
that was awesome. really cool harmonies. god they sound,...so,...good,.... i guess i should start paying more attention to my vocal tracks

[stereomixer]

These mixes are from a DVD the band put out half way through the release. There is a place where you can do your own mixes of the songs and all the instruments are separated out. The drums and Bass and guitars and of course the lead vocal and the backgrounds
Some of the kids have done some really great mixes from these stems.
Check it out and don't steal the Kik and sn!!!

Originally Posted by zboy2854

Agreed, keep the good stuff coming! Don't let the haters ruin a good, informative thread...

Originally Posted by Kadden Heart

wowserz,....
that was awesome. really cool harmonies. god they sound,...so,...good,.... i guess i should start paying more attention to my vocal tracks

[Kadden Heart]

Originally Posted by stereomixer

These mixes are from a DVD the band put out half way through the release. There is a place where you can do your own mixes of the songs and all the instruments are separated out. The drums and Bass and guitars and of course the lead vocal and the backgrounds
Some of the kids have done some really great mixes from these stems.
Check it out and don't steal the Kik and sn!!!

OOH! i forgot i have the special edition i bought has that,.. "nu-mix" or somethin'
lol,..wonder if i can get the audio off the ROM so i can import to PT or Reaper,..

don't worry, i'll try not to steal your kick or snare
lol

EDIT: so i checked out "nu-myx"
with every level all the way up i assume that's pretty much the song as it's finalized?

if so, the snare track is,..from what i can tell pure sample (at least in misery business) is this the snare that went on record?

the kick i can still hear the gating and release of cymbals and so forth.

couldn't figure out how to pull just the audio in PT, oh well.

[stereomixer]

You cannot give everyone everything all the time right?

Originally Posted by Kadden Heart

OOH! i forgot i have the special edition i bought has that,.. "nu-mix" or somethin'
lol,..wonder if i can get the audio off the ROM so i can import to PT or Reaper,..

don't worry, i'll try not to steal your kick or snare
lol

EDIT: so i checked out "nu-myx"
with every level all the way up i assume that's pretty much the song as it's finalized?

if so, the snare track is,..from what i can tell pure sample (at least in misery business) is this the snare that went on record?

the kick i can still hear the gating and release of cymbals and so forth.

couldn't figure out how to pull just the audio in PT, oh well.

[luctellier]

David,

I know you said:

"The drums are sample light, in some cases just going through reverb. The Drums on the record are DW, if you listen closely you can tell every hit is different. The Mic techniques Dan Korneff and I used were key. So was the ADR comp and the SSL."

But listening to the stems and the snare track from the Misery Business's Nu-Myx, it sounds like a total sound replacement using multi-hit samples. Could you confirm that?

In any case, I really liked the drum sounds on the album no matter what techniques or processing was used. I always loved roomy drums! :)

Thanks

[NoizyNinja]

I know you're a guitarist David so did the guitarist use your personal collection of guitars and amps for the recording?

What amps and cabinets were used? Recording chain/compressors?

Thanks again for letting us pick your brain. I'll have to check out that DVD.

[fooman]

How much compression is there on those drums if they are sample light?

I just tracked myself for my band... I got a great fat sound that was 'modelled' after the snare from Paramore and I have zero compression on it. Just wondering how much comp you use since that's the sound I was after ;) Female singer and all!

[stereomixer]

Vinnie paul snare, crushed room mics, a circa 1974 transformerless ADR compex limiter, AMS reverb stereo, SPX 90 reverb mono, SSL 4000 E series console and a few home made samples added in for good measure.
Heat to Boil then simmer, Stir lightly and serve.

Originally Posted by fooman

How much compression is there on those drums if they are sample light?

I just tracked myself for my band... I got a great fat sound that was 'modelled' after the snare from Paramore and I have zero compression on it. Just wondering how much comp you use since that's the sound I was after ;) Female singer and all!

[Podgorny]

Certainly sounded like some AMS widening on the vocal in those youtube clips.

[erock]

Yeah I can def. hear the SSL. Reminds me of Mayday Parade's "A Lesson in Romantics" (SSL @ Tree Sound) and the RENT soundtrack (dunno about SSL but sounds very very similar)

The album most definitely sounds fuller and more pro than the one James Wisner did, even though I like his a lot, also...this mix is just more 'commercial'.

Surprised to hear about the samples, as well as a lot of people here apparently.

One person said they were a Flyleaf ripoff...you gotta understand they're not a 'new' band. "All We Know is Falling" came out in '05, as did the first Flyleaf cd. I've been listening to Paramore since '05 and I've never thought they have been an 'anyone' ripoff

The only elements of other bands that I hear in them are Acceptance (especially in "Miracle"... to me if you replaced Hayley's vox with Jason Vena's, it would be an Acceptance song)...and Saosin's self-titled album, the complexity of the vocal harmonies are what make me put those two albums in the same category.

I do agree that compared to most other modern albums, this is pretty dynamic. It IS loud, but nothing has the life squished out of it. In my experience, that's pretty hard to achieve. Things are nice and even, round, not flat. So kudos on that. Its sad that when people hear a loud album now, they automatically think its crushed to death.

The only 'complaint' I would have about the sound of the album are the oh's. For my taste, they have way too quick of a decay and to me, they almost sound like 2 splashes. Meinl's were used for the record, right? Oh well, I just like a big sustaining crash.



ps- the reason I stick up for this band so much is their ability to out-do their albums live. They pull off everything live so well, all of the band is talented, even though Hayley gets most of the credit. I could watch live vids of them on YouTube for hours...have actually.

pps- don't think i'm a paramore freak. I actually haven't listened to the album in about 3 months. just posting because i like the band and i know a little about them. dear God i hope someone reads this, haha. took too long to write.