recording analogue drums and peak

ecolleno · 21st April 2008

Hello,

I am recording my first drums in my analogue Otari mx 80. I am doing it without compressor or limiter (perhaps I will use in mix)

I always thought that I must avoid or take care of the red led of peak. Then, When I record a guitar the led of the peak use to stay turn off.

But now, I realize that if I record drums and keep the peak led off, the drums is recorded too weak.

The question is do you avoid peak leds in the analogue recording when you record drums?

rico52 · 21st April 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecolleno

Hello,

I am recording my first drums in my analogue Otari mx 80. I am doing it without compressor or limiter (perhaps I will use in mix)

I always thought that I must avoid or take care of the red led of peak. Then, When I record a guitar the led of the peak use to stay turn off.

But now, I realize that if I record drums and keep the peak led off, the drums is recorded too weak.

The question is do you avoid peak leds in the analogue recording when you record drums?

How does it sound when peaking?

dbbubba · 21st April 2008

Don't worry about the red LED peak meter.
The transients on drums are much higher level and faster than the VU meters can show.
It doesn't mean that their will be "bad" distortion if the LEDs pop on.

If the deck is properly calibrated you only need to watch the meters.
It is OK to get into the red on the drums themselves, but be carefull on the OHs, hats and cymbal stuff.

In fact, you would probably be better off to record with MORE aggressive or hotter levels than with too low of a level.
Learning what tape can handle is an art in itself.

Brad McGowan · 21st April 2008

The meters won't tell you the same thing that you are used to seeing when recording to a DAW. Like others have said you kind of just have to feel things out. With some practice you'll gain an appreciation for how hard you can hit the tape before the sounds starts to become displeasing to you. I did some searches here when I got my tape deck and saw that some people were recommending average levels of around -10dBVU for close drum mics. That will probably be a good place to start. I would just push it until it starts to get too crunchy for your tastes.

Brad

dbbubba · 21st April 2008

Trust me.... you can bang tape pretty hard before it sounds "wrong" and it often makes things sound better.

On 2" I used to routinely record +9 over 185 nwbr on Ampex 456 which was theoretically a +6 tape formulation.
Prior to Ampex 499 (which was a +9 tape like GP9) I recorded onto 456 at +8 over 185 nwbr.
There were slight print thru issues, but it never was a deal breaker.
The trade-off was well worth it.

I kept at +6 on 1/4" and 1/2" 2-track.

I learned to do this from a VERY experienced engineer and it improved my drum sound dramatically.

If you are doing rock music or aggressive music, you need to record aggressively.
You have to learn what your medium can handle and get the most out of it.
I have found that most people under-record on analog.

Bang the tape... listen and when it starts to sound bad.... back off a bit.

The Reel Thing · 21st April 2008

it is a usual procedure to let the drummer play in the room without headphones while recording and playing back from the repro head. this way you can adjust levels for each track to exactly the sound you want. especially for snare and kick you will find a sweet spot, where the tape collaborates and really enhances your sound. these sweet spots won't be shown on the VU, you have to find them. some people can do it from experience, though.

i even sometimes re-bias tracks that way. for example rock bass tracks i will way over-bias (2-3 dB more than recommended) while listening to what's coming back at me, because i don't need the high end anyway, and i can put a whole lot more level and crunch to a track with a higher over-bias.
this works also great on electric guitars.
you just have to remember to re-bias to regular after the session.

it's fun, and when you get the hang of it, your tape machine is the best compressor and EQ in the house.

tom

analoghaus :: studio label verlag - home

Han · 21st April 2008

Don't worry, be happy! My MX80 looks like a christmas tree with when recording drums, no problemo my friend, it's analog recording.

ecolleno · 22nd April 2008

thanks for your opinions, I realize the sound is great and there is not bad distortion problems, beside peaks.

21st April 2008	#1
ecolleno Gear maniac Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 196 Thread Starter 1 Review written	recording analogue drums and peak Hello, I am recording my first drums in my analogue Otari mx 80. I am doing it without compressor or limiter (perhaps I will use in mix) I always thought that I must avoid or take care of the red led of peak. Then, When I record a guitar the led of the peak use to stay turn off. But now, I realize that if I record drums and keep the peak led off, the drums is recorded too weak. The question is do you avoid peak leds in the analogue recording when you record drums?

21st April 2008	#4
Brad McGowan Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 5,582	The meters won't tell you the same thing that you are used to seeing when recording to a DAW. Like others have said you kind of just have to feel things out. With some practice you'll gain an appreciation for how hard you can hit the tape before the sounds starts to become displeasing to you. I did some searches here when I got my tape deck and saw that some people were recommending average levels of around -10dBVU for close drum mics. That will probably be a good place to start. I would just push it until it starts to get too crunchy for your tastes. Brad __________________ plotagainstrachel.bandcamp.com Little Red Wagon Studios How to integrate your analog tape deck with your DAW: http://youtu.be/bswx5zrFRl0 http://youtu.be/W-II32AvVd8

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21st April 2008	#3
dbbubba Banned Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 7,099	Don't worry about the red LED peak meter. The transients on drums are much higher level and faster than the VU meters can show. It doesn't mean that their will be "bad" distortion if the LEDs pop on. If the deck is properly calibrated you only need to watch the meters. It is OK to get into the red on the drums themselves, but be carefull on the OHs, hats and cymbal stuff. In fact, you would probably be better off to record with MORE aggressive or hotter levels than with too low of a level. Learning what tape can handle is an art in itself.

21st April 2008	#6
The Reel Thing Gear addict Joined: Jun 2004 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 478	it is a usual procedure to let the drummer play in the room without headphones while recording and playing back from the repro head. this way you can adjust levels for each track to exactly the sound you want. especially for snare and kick you will find a sweet spot, where the tape collaborates and really enhances your sound. these sweet spots won't be shown on the VU, you have to find them. some people can do it from experience, though. i even sometimes re-bias tracks that way. for example rock bass tracks i will way over-bias (2-3 dB more than recommended) while listening to what's coming back at me, because i don't need the high end anyway, and i can put a whole lot more level and crunch to a track with a higher over-bias. this works also great on electric guitars. you just have to remember to re-bias to regular after the session. it's fun, and when you get the hang of it, your tape machine is the best compressor and EQ in the house. tom analoghaus :: studio label verlag - home

21st April 2008	#7
Han Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2002 Location: Netherlands Posts: 983	Don't worry, be happy! My MX80 looks like a christmas tree with when recording drums, no problemo my friend, it's analog recording.

22nd April 2008	#8
ecolleno Gear maniac Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 196 Thread Starter 1 Review written	thanks for your opinions, I realize the sound is great and there is not bad distortion problems, beside peaks.