About $7,000 to spend, help!

[magibatalla]

The facts:

- I'm trying to settle as a producer-recordist, I'm involved in 3 successful or promising projects in my region (Barcelona), which I hope will launch my career.

- I work in my own appartment, I treated a pair of rooms as a control room and a vocal booth. I record on location a lot (drums and other loud sources). I'm planning moving into a dedicated building in a couple of years.

- I'm an ITB guy and don't want to go outside, I just can't afford it.

- I have about $7,000 to spend, I'm trying to cover the basics and working with that for quite a long time.

- I'd like to go the high-end route, but not the insane glamourous way (I'd rather go with a good clone than the expensive original).


My current gear:

- Monitoring: Genelec 8030
- Mics: AKG C414 BXLII, Neumann KM184 matched pair, Sennheiser e609 (x3), Shure SM57, Shure SM52
- Conversion: Prism Sound Orpheus
- Outboard: A-Designs Pacifica, Handcrafted Labs Mirror tube mic pre, Handcrafted Labs Solution tube opto compressor
- Wiring: Vovox
- Software: Cubase 4, Waves Renaissance Max, Waves Masters, PSP Vintage Warmer, IK Classic Studio Reverb


My thoughts:

- I need a couple of pre+conversion channels more, eight is quite limited in many situations. I'm going for the API A2D (price and qualitywise).

- Maybe I should track with EQ and compression to get better sounds before going digital. My choices would be EL Lil Freq (or a Portico) and Crane Song Trakker (or a Distressor). Versatility would be a must here.

- I need different mics. A good LDC mic (Peluso, Pearlman, HCL Faust, Blue Kiwi), ribbons (Royer, Crowley, FatHeads), dynamics (SM7, 421's, RE20). Which ones I can't go without?

- Not being able to afford a lot of outboard (none being used during mixing), maybe I shoud go for good plug-in emulations (Duende, UAD Nevana).


I can't cover all these areas with $7,000, so I'm trying to figure out which would be the wisest choices. The API A2D is a must for me, so I have about $5,300 left. Maybe those outboard EQ and Comp and a good mic?
Or better more variety in mics and a DSP plug-in solution?

Any help? Thanx in advance!

[sahabbond]

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[magibatalla]

What the ... ?!?!
Waiting for serious contributors...

[steffo]

What gear you need is hard to tell, If I had to work at home (I've tried but It's hard) I would not want to live without:

Great headphones
Hardware eq's (kick, bass, Lead Vocals)
Hardware comps (drum parallell, bass, Lead Vocals)
a main Hardware Reverb (Plate, Bricasti, Lexicon..)
Monitors that sound good when monitoring at low volume

I get way better resault working at a place with a console and decent monitors then at home (mixing).

I've got mc77, bricasti, dbx 160vu's, api 2500, drawmer 1968, tone control, speck's, a studer miniconsole, good monitors...I'm still not doing anything serious at home.

[magibatalla]

Thanx for sharing your opinion, Steffo
I imagined I would be aimed to increase my microphone locker...
So you think I should go for good hardware processors. For tracking, right? I'm not going to use those units when mixing.
And about those "great headphones", is it a matter of working levels (I haven't bothered my neighbours yet, I think my monitoring levels are not annoying for them) or rather being able to judge something more accuratelly?
I'd like to hear other opinions, please

[psycho_monkey]

since you don't mention it already, I'd say some room treatment should be your priority.

once this is done, look at other things with whatever you have left. If you *need* the extra pres, the A2D is as good as any choice.

I'd say an LDC isn't the highest priority. I'd go with an outboard comp+EQ for a mixbuss chain (if you can't afford a good quality one of each, start with one and add the next when you can, don't go cheap so you can afford both).

You're never going to regret buying an SM7 either.

[magibatalla]

Thanx for your advices, psycho_monkey

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

since you don't mention it already, I'd say some room treatment should be your priority.

My rooms are already treated. Auralex foam bass traps and huge custom bass traps and broadband absorbers I built my own. Concrete monitor stands Still some measurements to do but I'm pretty happy with what I hear and how it translates to the outside world.

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

I'd say an LDC isn't the highest priority. I'd go with an outboard comp+EQ for a mixbuss chain (if you can't afford a good quality one of each, start with one and add the next when you can, don't go cheap so you can afford both).

Not cutting corners is my philosophy, I'm not going for 2 "ok" if there's 1 "awesome". Anyway, do you think it's a must having a mixbuss chain? That means having everything stereo, which increases costs. I thought I could send my digital bounce to mastering and they would take care of mixbuss processing. Or are you suggesting to mix with that comp/eq on the mixbuss all the time? Is it strictly necessary mixing like that? I wanted to stay in the digital domain after tracking, so I'm worrying about things before going digital, hardwarewise. Tell me if I'm going the wrong way with this...

What I'm wondering about is wether I would take more profit out of having more hardware tools for tracking (mics, comps, EQs) or from having better plug-ins to shape my mixes ITB.

Thanx!

[warhead]

What won't your current rig do? That would be the best info we could have. What part of the process do you reach and find yourself wishing it could be better? Honestly, you have seemingly well picked select pieces of higher end gear. Possibly expanding the mic locker and picking up good hardware EQ, along with more plugs would be where I would look based on what you're saying though. But that's only if those are areas you find lacking!

War

[bigos]

I didnt see a good tube vocal mic on your current gearlist. Daniel Suter makes a great c800G/c12 hybrid sounding mic in switzerland for 2500 swiss francs. Im dont get comission by pushing his product I just think that his mic is one of the best for the price. Honestly If I would have gotten his mic earlier I never would have spent 5000 on a used c800G. You also might consider another akg 414 so that you can have a pair. I dont know much about the hand crafted labs gear but for your situation I think you will need a good vocal chain of mic -pre-compresor-eq. You migh want to consider an EAR pultec styled eq. Also a second hand distressor would really compliment your setup and not set you back to much. I always see them for sale om the GS classifieds. It seems like you have good gear for location recording, I hope that you have top quality traveling racks for your gear as well as insurance.

[magibatalla]

Originally Posted by warhead

What won't your current rig do? That would be the best info we could have. What part of the process do you reach and find yourself wishing it could be better? Honestly, you have seemingly well picked select pieces of higher end gear. Possibly expanding the mic locker and picking up good hardware EQ, along with more plugs would be where I would look based on what you're saying though. But that's only if those are areas you find lacking!
War

I liked your approach, War, really appreciated. You've made me think it twice and, well, I've recorded full albums with my current setup, so I think I can handle what I need to. Maybe the point is that I've never worked with a hardware EQ, never put my hands on an 1176, an LA2A, never sung thru an U67, a C12,... I'm just wondering if working with something like that would make a radical difference. I mean: would tracking vocals or bass thru hardware EQ and compression mean an improvement to what I'm currently doing or it's just a matter of flavour/taste? The same with plugs...

I'm starting to think I should rather keep on working with my current gear and spend those bucks on something else...

Originally Posted by bigos

I didnt see a good tube vocal mic on your current gearlist. Daniel Suter makes a great c800G/c12 hybrid sounding mic in switzerland for 2500 swiss francs.
(...) for your situation I think you will need a good vocal chain of mic -pre-compresor-eq. You migh want to consider an EAR pultec styled eq. Also a second hand distressor would really compliment your setup and not set you back to much.

Thanx for your contribution, bigos. I would appreciate a link for that swiss mic manufacturer, I'd take a look.

So far I decided to stay with my 8 channels of pre/conversion (I think I'll be able to live without those "outside kick", "FOK" and room mics...). A dealer here in Spain offered me a good deal on a second hand Lil Freq, so I'm probably going for it (for what I've read it's one of the most versatile EQ's out there, plus a hardware de-esser...). I'm probably going for a tube mic and an SM7 and staying there for some time...

It's hard being a gearslut without a budget... I need therapy...

[Aurora T.]

Look at Gefell mics.

They are a bargain in our chinese mic world.

[djbrough]

Originally Posted by magibatalla

The facts:

- I'm trying to settle as a producer-recordist, I'm involved in 3 successful or promising projects in my region (Barcelona), which I hope will launch my career.

- I work in my own appartment, I treated a pair of rooms as a control room and a vocal booth. I record on location a lot (drums and other loud sources). I'm planning moving into a dedicated building in a couple of years.

- I'm an ITB guy and don't want to go outside, I just can't afford it.

- I have about $7,000 to spend, I'm trying to cover the basics and working with that for quite a long time.

- I'd like to go the high-end route, but not the insane glamourous way (I'd rather go with a good clone than the expensive original).


My current gear:

- Monitoring: Genelec 8030
- Mics: AKG C414 BXLII, Neumann KM184 matched pair, Sennheiser e609 (x3), Shure SM57, Shure SM52
- Conversion: Prism Sound Orpheus
- Outboard: A-Designs Pacifica, Handcrafted Labs Mirror tube mic pre, Handcrafted Labs Solution tube opto compressor
- Wiring: Vovox
- Software: Cubase 4, Waves Renaissance Max, Waves Masters, PSP Vintage Warmer, IK Classic Studio Reverb


My thoughts:

- I need a couple of pre+conversion channels more, eight is quite limited in many situations. I'm going for the API A2D (price and qualitywise).

- Maybe I should track with EQ and compression to get better sounds before going digital. My choices would be EL Lil Freq (or a Portico) and Crane Song Trakker (or a Distressor). Versatility would be a must here.

- I need different mics. A good LDC mic (Peluso, Pearlman, HCL Faust, Blue Kiwi), ribbons (Royer, Crowley, FatHeads), dynamics (SM7, 421's, RE20). Which ones I can't go without?

- Not being able to afford a lot of outboard (none being used during mixing), maybe I shoud go for good plug-in emulations (Duende, UAD Nevana).


I can't cover all these areas with $7,000, so I'm trying to figure out which would be the wisest choices. The API A2D is a must for me, so I have about $5,300 left. Maybe those outboard EQ and Comp and a good mic?
Or better more variety in mics and a DSP plug-in solution?

Any help? Thanx in advance!

I wouldn't do the A2D in your situation because you couldn't record with it and the orpheus simotaneously in cubase. Cubase only let you interface one soundcard at a time. The orpheus has ADAT in, so I would look at a high end 8-channel mic pre interface and more mics. This is what I would do:

Audient ASP008 ADAT - $2,000
Pearlman TM-1 - $1,750
Royer 121 (x2) - $1,295
Audix I5's, beta 58's, D12's $500-$700

After all is said and done, you'll have enough channels to mic up a full drum kit, and the rest of the band all at once. The audient's pres are very useable, and chould be nice and punchy for drums. you get a very good LDC that pairs up really well with the Pacifica and a few ribbons for guitar cabs, or room mics, etc. If you didn't want to throw any more money at drum mics, you could always use the extra for Waves API or V-series as well. All the prices above are for new items, so buying used would also save you a lot of coin.

Just a few suggestions.....

[StudioTinPanAll]

Originally Posted by djbrough

I wouldn't do the A2D in your situation because you couldn't record with it and the orpheus simotaneously in cubase. Cubase only let you interface one soundcard at a time. The orpheus has ADAT in, so I would look at a high end 8-channel mic pre interface and more mics. This is what I would do:

Audient ASP008 ADAT - $2,000
Pearlman TM-1 - $1,750
Royer 121 (x2) - $1,295
Audix I5's, beta 58's, D12's $500-$700

After all is said and done, you'll have enough channels to mic up a full drum kit, and the rest of the band all at once. The audient's pres are very useable, and chould be nice and punchy for drums. you get a very good LDC that pairs up really well with the Pacifica and a few ribbons for guitar cabs, or room mics, etc. If you didn't want to throw any more money at drum mics, you could always use the extra for Waves API or V-series as well. All the prices above are for new items, so buying used would also save you a lot of coin.

Just a few suggestions.....

the orpheus has spdif input also so a2d into spdif
use the adat for a spider

i'm thinking about an orpheus too
with an avocet as monitor ctrl (software output full blast = no thx)

[magibatalla]

Originally Posted by djbrough

This is what I would do:
Audient ASP008 ADAT - $2,000
Pearlman TM-1 - $1,750
Royer 121 (x2) - $1,295
Audix I5's, beta 58's, D12's $500-$700

After all is said and done, you'll have enough channels to mic up a full drum kit, and the rest of the band all at once. The audient's pres are very useable, and chould be nice and punchy for drums.

Thanx for the input, djbrough. I was going to use the A2D thru orpheus' spdif input, but by now I decided to stay with 8 preamp/conversion channels. I'd be using more than 8 channels only when recording drums, so I think I rather invest on something I find myself using in more parts of the process first. I think I can manage quite good with 8 channels for drums, also (I wish I had more, but...).

I knew about the Audient and had considered it. The same here, there's no need of 16 channels for recording other things than drums. I can always switch back to the 16 channels of my Mackie Onyx for certain situations (Prism Sound forgive me ).

I'm probably going for a tube LDC and a ribbon, though. As I write I'm closing a deal for a used Lil Freq. Will add a used Distressor soon.

Originally Posted by StudioTinPanAll

i'm thinking about an orpheus too
with an avocet as monitor ctrl (software output full blast = no thx)

Thank you too, StudioTinPanAll. You won't regret buying the Orpheus And you shouldn't be that bothered about those blasts, I haven't had any serious trouble with it and Prism Sound is probably fixing it with an update soon.

[djbrough]

Cool beans. With the gear you have, you should have no issues making some really great recordings. Best of luck to ya.

[Vertigo2006]

Hola Magi!

But what about HCL Faust??
I also have some HCL devices like Mirror, Affinity, Solution and
Faust.
My last A/B test was Faust vs Manley reference cardioid.
Faust was better for my needs...

You have also HCL gear so You know the quality.

Mats

ps. here is pure HCL sound at vocals
MySpace.com - Astro - Helsinki, FI - Electronica / Pop / Electro - www.myspace.com/astroyhtye

[magibatalla]

Thanks Mats, I just ordered a Faust and I'm looking forward to have it in my hands! You're right, I already know HCL and trust their craftmanship. I'm sure I won't be disappointed.

[vernier]

Maybe the point is that I've never worked with a hardware EQ, never put my hands on an 1176, an LA2A, never sung thru an U67, a C12,... I'm just wondering if working with something like that would make a radical difference.

Just rent some good mics and pre's and record with various combinations to find out we're you're at. It's that simple.

'