Starting an indie label...

[china jam]

Download only. Tell me how easy it all is

[Dean7]

This cracks me up because an "indie label" is a bit of an oxymoron... isn't it?

[china jam]

Originally Posted by Dean7

This cracks me up because an "indie label" is a bit of an oxymoron... isn't it?

Hilarious

[MrT]

work long and work hard. If the right oppertunity presents itself take it. It's that easy...


oh yeah... and don't forget that as a prerequisite you have to be a) able to produce great recordings (and I don't mean fidelity) b) have great work ethic and c) have innate talent.

Cover those things and it will just fall into your lap like a hot slut at a frat party.


P.S. when she pukes on your shirt just take it like a champ...

[djwayne]

You want to check out TuneCore...

TuneCore: Welcome


and SoundClick.......

SoundClick - Free MP3 music download and much, much more.

[china jam]

Cheers mate, TuneCore looks interesting.

[djwayne]

I signed up with TuneCore this week.

Read up on them, it's time well spent. I think it's awesome.

[djwayne]

SoundClick is also very cool, as you can upload a song and it's posted immediately. No waiting. You can share music worldwide instantly. You can get a free site or a paid site. You can offer your songs for free or as a paid download.

I have a friend in Pennsylvania who's now working with a collaboration partner in Europe, that she met thru SoundClick. She loves SoundClick.

[djwayne]

You'll also need some artwork for your album cover. For a quick inexpensive solution, I used SureThing software. I can put together an album cover in just a few minutes with this software. It comes with a ton of graphics you can use and all the templates you'll need. For more info, goto.....


SureThing - Home of SureThing CD/DVD Labeler


.

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by djwayne

I signed up with TuneCore this week.

Read up on them, it's time well spent. I think it's awesome.

What does TuneCore do that you can't do by registering with the services (ie. I-Tunes etc.) directly ?

[Master Tang]

This is the best Indy site I've found...

IACmusic.com presented by Independent Artists Company and KIAC

Great support, download for pay options, post tunes, and they are immediately available. Exportable players, hi and lo fi as well.

It's not free BUT it's very well run, and not being free weeds out a ton of the kid type random stuff that I cam across on Soundclick.

[djwayne]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

What does TuneCore do that you can't do by registering with the services (ie. I-Tunes etc.) directly ?

They act as a middleman, and delivery service for you, so instead of going to each internet seller directly one by one, they do it for you, and keep track of your earnings, and deposit your earnings into your PayPal account or send you a check...in other words, they take all the hassles out it all for you and make it simple. For an independent guy like me, this service is invaluable, as I've been wanting to get my music on iTunes for awhile, but this makes it easy.

So now, instead of just talking about going onto iTunes, AmazonMP3, ect...I actually have the wheels in motion and am doing it. For what they charge, this is a great service for independent musicians.

They also have cd production available for small or large run orders.

I would suggest to read up on TuneCore in the Gearslutz archive section, there's tons of info there.

[ocp]

Originally Posted by djwayne

They act as a middleman, and delivery service for you, so instead of going to each internet seller directly one by one, they do it for you, and keep track of your earnings, and deposit your earnings into your PayPal account or send you a check...in other words, they take all the hassles out it all for you and make it simple. For an independent guy like me, this service is invaluable, as I've been wanting to get my music on iTunes for awhile, but this makes it easy.

So now, instead of just talking about going onto iTunes, AmazonMP3, ect...I actually have the wheels in motion and am doing it. For what they charge, this is a great service for independent musicians.

They also have cd production available for small or large run orders.

I would suggest to read up on TuneCore in the Gearslutz archive section, there's tons of info there.

The big issue here is if it pays out...
I've been a Tunecore user for a couple of years now and haven't earned that much from using it.
I'm not loosing money but my expectations were not met.
I feel like I've paid for my dream to have my music sold in iTunes, etc. not to reach a broader clientele.
I'm not quitting on the service but I'm surely going on my own just to see how it compares.

[djwayne]

Originally Posted by ocp

The big issue here is if it pays out...
I've been a Tunecore user for a couple of years now and haven't earned that much from using it.
I'm not loosing money but my expectations were not met.
I feel like I've paid for my dream to have my music sold in iTunes, etc. not to reach a broader clientele.
I'm not quitting on the service but I'm surely going on my own just to see how it compares.

I've read that some people are doing VERY well with TuneCore, I don't know what to expect, but at least my music will be out there setup in the internet stores. I suppose a lot of the marketing and advertising will still be the responsibility of the artists. You'll have to direct people to your music.

The music business is a funny business, you never know what's going to take off or what will flop, so you just gotta put it out there, be patient, go make more music, and hope for the best.

My view is, anything I sell will be a blessing, and better than nothing. What's the alternative ?? Keep my music locked up in a drawer waiting for some record company to offer me a deal ??? To heck with that. At least I'll know my music was given a fair chance.

[china jam]

I've checked a few things out. CD Baby and TuneCore make distribution extremely simple and at a cost that is fairly reasonable.

Maybe it's a way to start, first few releases would be low-key anyway.

Only thing I have issues with is that they can't guarantee a listing date once they've distributed your music to the vendors.

I plan to sell 7"s out the office. So more help with the digital distribution would be appreciated.

[rack gear]

good luck man, it's a tough gig - but then again anything worth doing is. you know what they say - if it were easy everyone would be doing it.

just curious - what will you be offering the bands/artists that they can't get or do for themselves these days. not a slag, but genuinely curious how an indie label today would operate. I mean if you can get access to TuneCore, so can they?

What do the bands/artists have to give up, and what do they get? Again - just curious how a start-up handles these issues in todays marketplace.

timewas, even indies paid advances, spent for marketing and tour support, hired pubicists, etc, etc... and - handled distribution, pressing, etc. I'm not sure how it works today for a start up - especially even with big artists going direct.

[china jam]

Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios

good luck man, it's a tough gig - but then again anything worth doing is. you know what they say - if it were easy everyone would be doing it.

just curious - what will you be offering the bands/artists that they can't get or do for themselves these days. not a slag, but genuinely curious how an indie label today would operate. I mean if you can get access to TuneCore, so can they?

What do the bands/artists have to give up, and what do they get? Again - just curious how a start-up handles these issues in todays marketplace.

timewas, even indies paid advances, spent for marketing and tour support, hired pubicists, etc, etc... and - handled distribution, pressing, etc. I'm not sure how it works today for a start up - especially even with big artists going direct.

Totally understand where you're coming from.

When I record a band we normally end up as mates by the time their master comes back. A lot of the time they'll become dependent on my opinion of what they're up to. I help with stuff, from decisions on song writing through to what guitar/amp they're buying. They trust me with their music is all I'm saying and I'm not bad at making stuff happen.

My band is and has been signed to a "big indie" for a couple years now. We got what was their biggest pay out ever as our advance. Of course being on an indie means you eventually meet virtually everyone involved in your releases, so I have enough contacts and experience regarding PR and distribution.

I had no intention of doing this until a band I'm producing (who have a decent fan base) suggested it to me. I thought I might as well give it a go! I believe that's how most indies are established.

[china jam]

There's also quite a lot of planning that goes into releasing a single, on a physical format especially.

Most bands can barely handle arranging a rehearsal.

I'm talking small time anyway. It'll be a collaborative effort.

[SighBorg]

In my opinion an label isnt a label without a viable method of distribution or income that sells. You need to have a reasonable/viable method to generate the income to at least cover the costs both for the label and the artist. I would not consider something like Soundclick.com a reasonable method unless you have way to get people to pay for the music or some other alternative form of income. If you dont have this then essentially the artist is handing over the rights to their music without anything in return.

If you dont offer anything other than online distribution why should the Artist sign on instead of just making their own TuneCore account?

It isnt just about the artist either. At the very least you will need a Lawyer. The last lawyers that grew from trees were chopped down in mainland China a couple decades ago.

[china jam]

Originally Posted by Kelly644

In my opinion an label isnt a label without a viable method of distribution or income that sells. You need to have a reasonable/viable method to generate the income to at least cover the costs both for the label and the artist. I would not consider something like Soundclick.com a reasonable method unless you have way to get people to pay for the music or some other alternative form of income. If you dont have this then essentially the artist is handing over the rights to their music without anything in return.

If you dont offer anything other than online distribution why should the Artist sign on instead of just making their own TuneCore account?

It isnt just about the artist either. At the very least you will need a Lawyer. The last lawyers that grew from trees were chopped down mainland China a couple decades ago.

Mate, you welllll don't get what I'm trying to do. I don't need to make money off bands! Strictly DIY. Ever heard of helping someone out cos you believed in them? People that can't be bothered to ask dumb questions on a forum and rummage through the replies for a bit of genuine insight.

First couple posts probably sounded a bit naive but I was looking for simple opinions based on experience, not put downs.

A label isn't a label blah blah. Ever heard of Fierce Panda and what they started as?

I know of music lawyers that work for free. Cheers for the trees in China tip off.

[SighBorg]

Mate, you welllll don't get what I'm trying to do. I don't need to make money off bands! Strictly DIY. Ever heard of helping someone out cos you believed in them? People that can't be bothered to ask dumb questions on a forum and rummage through the replies for a bit of genuine insight.

First couple posts probably sounded a bit naive but I was looking for simple opinions based on experience, not put downs.

I wasn't trying to put you down. I was trying to speak matter-of-fact based on what a normal label should at least provide (Hence the smiley and peace sign in my post). If your goal was to start a service purely for charity you should have stated that.

[tropicalhotdog]

I got two pieces of advice from people in the business before I started a label, which I should have listened to but didn't:

1) find a way to start a label where you never actually have to business with musicians;

2) instead of starting a label, to save time, just go into your yard, dig a hole, put all your savings in it, and toss in a match.

I shoulda listened.

[gsilbers]

tunecore is good to et your stuff into download stores. but they dont market your music. and its easy to get your music out there , the though part is to get people to know it.

[A440]

Originally Posted by tropicalhotdog

I got two pieces of advice from people in the business before I started a label, which I should have listened to but didn't:

1) find a way to start a label where you never actually have to business with musicians;

2) instead of starting a label, to save time, just go into your yard, dig a hole, put all your savings in it, and toss in a match.

I shoulda listened.

+1

... If you do start a label, keep all your expenses to the absolute minimum and only invest what you can afford to lose.

The relatively easy bit is producing the masters, printing CD's, and getting it out on iTunes..

The really hard bit is promoting & marketing! Promoting artists, bands and albums costs serious amounts of money...which is where an Indie Label without serious finance usually comes unstuck...

mostly ..

On the other hand, helping friends out and shifting a couple of hundred CD's/downloads to the bands friends/following is a fun thing to do, and could lead to other things...so..

Good luck to you .

[china jam]

Originally Posted by A440

+1

... If you do start a label, keep all your expenses to the absolute minimum and only invest what you can afford to lose.

The relatively easy bit is producing the masters, printing CD's, and getting it out on iTunes..

The really hard bit is promoting & marketing! Promoting artists, bands and albums costs serious amounts of money...which is where an Indie Label without serious finance usually comes unstuck...

mostly ..

On the other hand, helping friends out and shifting a couple of hundred CD's/downloads to the bands friends/following is a fun thing to do, and could lead to other things...so..

Good luck to you .

Thanks, this is exactly what I'm thinking.

[djwayne]

Hopefully, word of mouth advertising will kick in and the music will sell itself.

It's a good plan to keep your expenses down, because even a fat advertising budget won't guarantee record sales. The music has to be good enough for people to buy it.

[PDC]

Originally Posted by ocp

The big issue here is if it pays out...
I've been a Tunecore user for a couple of years now and haven't earned that much from using it.
I'm not loosing money but my expectations were not met.
I feel like I've paid for my dream to have my music sold in iTunes, etc. not to reach a broader clientele.
I'm not quitting on the service but I'm surely going on my own just to see how it compares.

If you are not making money, then you are not doing your job directing people to the sites that sell your music. None of these middlemen generate sales. That's your job, not theirs.

iTunes is the biggest seller of music. So, you need to find out what it takes to get on iTune's front page. That is not done with cash, but through staff preference. Other than that, you need a huge web presence, a healthy live show schedule in the right markets, etc, etc. It is the same as it always was. It is just more work for you on your discretionary income.

Being an indie label is screwy. Most are nothing more than small-time versions of a real label, minus the real talent, minus industry contacts, minus marketing, minus management, minus indie rep payola, minus large sums of money for reviews, placement, makeovers, training, tour support and maybe "free" drugs.

[djwayne]

Originally Posted by PDC

Being an indie label is screwy. Most are nothing more than small-time versions of a real label, minus the real talent, minus industry contacts, minus marketing, minus management, minus indie rep payola, minus large sums of money for reviews, placement, makeovers, training, tour support and maybe "free" drugs.

That's why we want to be independent. No advances that have to be paid back, no management fees, no touring expenses, no huge accounting expenses....

Going "download only" has it's benefits. No distribution costs, no production costs, no shipping costs, no returns, no inventory to deal with.....

[tropicalhotdog]

Promo and marketing is really the only thing that matters, assuming the recording itself is good. Anyone can get something up to the digital services these days -- you don't really need a label for that -- so really the only "added value" of a label (if it's not offering physical distro or financing the recording) is it's ability to get people to hear and buy the music, or perhaps to help get licensing deals.

So what is it that you have in mind? When you say you want to start a label, which of the following are you going to do -

1) Find / develop / manage artists
2) Finance the recording/mastering/art
3) Assisit in production of the recording
4) Secure distribution, digital or otherwise, domestic and foreign
5) Promotion, marketing, advertising
6) Tour support
7) Merchandising
8) Publishing and licensing of the music
9) Catalog management

Those are just some of the main things that a label does. You need to figure out exactly what your going to do and can do, what kind of budget you have, what your break-even points are, what kind of legal entity you want to be and how to protect yourself.

At small levels, it's thankless
At intermediate levels, it's thankless and money-losing
At larger levels, it's a soul-sucking horror

Nothing can make you hate music like the music business.

[china jam]

Is this directed at me?