Pacifica / P1 Pad in - Do other Pres sound similar?

[Aurora T.]

I have two A-Designs P1 and really like them pad in.

Moreso than pad out I think.

So which pres sound similar?

[Berolzheimer]

Originally Posted by Aurora T.

I have two A-Designs P1 and really like them pad in.

Moreso than pad out I think.

So which pres sound similar?

The Shadow Hils mono GAMA doesn't sound much like the P1 (Although I like them both), but the GAMA also has a very nice sounding pad. I sometimes use it just for the color & make up the gain elswhere in my path.

[lrieves]

i'm sure i will get a lot of disagreements on this one, but a buddy of mine and i a/b'd the pacifica with the purple Biz on acoustic guitar and we found them to sound similar for that application. although i am sure they would sound drastically different on other applications, the pacifica had just a tad bit more coloration in the high mids, to the point where you might not be able to tell which pre was which in a blind test after you left the room and came back.

[lakeshorephatty]

I read an article awhile back that i can't remember the specifics of, but more or less this:

pad in pacifica has an input impedace more suited to condensers like 1500 ohm or so

pad out more like 300 ohm much more suited to dynamics ribbons etc.

They measured this themselves, its not in any manuals or anything.

could this have something to do with it?

Russell

[rcm]

I guess its a little obvious, but my Quad Eight MM71s sound quite similar to my Pacificas with the pad switch in.

[lrieves]

Originally Posted by rcm

I guess its a little obvious, but my Quad Eight MM71s sound quite similar to my Pacificas with the pad switch in.

oh come on, now you're just bragging!

[Aurora T.]

Originally Posted by lakeshorephatty

pad in pacifica has an input impedace more suited to condensers like 1500 ohm or so

pad out more like 300 ohm much more suited to dynamics ribbons etc.

They measured this themselves, its not in any manuals or anything.
Russell

Interesting!

Definitely need to experiment more with the P1.

Think it's versatile and sounds good on a lot of sources.

Sometimes I just prefer the pad a lot, but pad out is growing on me.

I swear.

[Nu-tra]

I think the pad design is the weakest point in the pacifica. That's just me though.
I'm glad you are digging it.

[chasman]

Originally Posted by Nu-tra

I think the pad design is the weakest point in the pacifica. That's just me though.
I'm glad you are digging it.

hey nu-tra,

do you mean you don't like the pad in sound on the pacifica??????

[rcm]

Originally Posted by Nu-tra

I think the pad design is the weakest point in the pacifica. That's just me though.
I'm glad you are digging it.

Funny, because its one of my favorite parts of it. Guess that's why there are 1000s of mic pres on the market.

[Nu-tra]

Dat's right. I love the pacifica with the pad out though.

Originally Posted by chasman

hey nu-tra,

do you mean you don't like the pad in sound on the pacifica??????

[chasman]

thanks nu-tra........ I also like the pacifica with the pad out........just picked up a set of klein + hummel 0110's though, so now I reckon I'll be able to listen to my recordings a lot better...............

rcm if you like the pad in sound that much, thats plenty enough good reason for me to experiment like hell with its sound a whole lot more...............

[staudio]

Does anyone know why the sound changes with pad in or out? Is it because you can use more gain and the amp sounds different? Or does the input impedance change and the mic loading is different? Or both?

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by rcm

I guess its a little obvious, but my Quad Eight MM71s sound quite similar to my Pacificas with the pad switch in.

Yeah ! that Pad Rocks and make it even cooler.

[lrieves]

so back to the question... does anything sound similar?

[AllAboutTone]

Pacifica and P-1 pad out is to harsh most of the time, if its vocals pad in is a must.
I cannot think of but one thing i use pad out on the P-1 , direct bass.

[Bradahman]

Originally Posted by AllAboutTone

Pacifica and P-1 pad out is to harsh most of the time, if its vocals pad in is a must.
I cannot think of but one thing i use pad out on the P-1 , direct bass.

P1... It's pad out for me atleast half of the time.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by lakeshorephatty

I read an article awhile back that i can't remember the specifics of, but more or less this:

pad in pacifica has an input impedace more suited to condensers like 1500 ohm or so

pad out more like 300 ohm much more suited to dynamics ribbons etc.

They measured this themselves, its not in any manuals or anything.

could this have something to do with it?

Russell

This is the reason for the difference in sound...

[chasman]

hey TonyBelmont (or anyone),

with the new understanding that the pacifica's input impedance change (via the pad switch) is what changes the sound, do you have any idea what the -20 dB (as stated in the pacifica owner's manual regarding the pad switch) means?????

not challenging anything here. I know next to nothing about this stuff and am trying to learn. I would have guessed that -20 dB meant that it cut either the sensitivity or the volume of the input connection..............

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by chasman

hey TonyBelmont (or anyone),

with the new understanding that the pacifica's input impedance change (via the pad switch) is what changes the sound, do you have any idea what the -20 dB (as stated in the pacifica owner's manual regarding the pad switch) means?????

not challenging anything here. I know next to nothing about this stuff and am trying to learn. I would have guessed that -20 dB meant that it cut either the sensitivity or the volume of the input connection..............

A pad drops the signal by x db (in this case 20 db).

The reason the Pacifica sounds different with the pad engaged is due to the impedance change that accompanies it's 20 db drop.

[chasman]

ok. thank you very much.

sincerely,
charlie

[Helsing]

Tony,

Where are you getting this info that there is a significant impedance change with the pad engaged? The pad circuit employed in the Pacifica and 500 series cards is designed to maintain a constant load to the microphone.

Does a pad make a mic pre sound slightly different when engaged or not? Yes, as inserting anything in the signal path will do, but not necessarily in a negative way. Take the example of Neve based mic pre circuit that uses an output or inter-gain stage attenuator. The position of that pot will alter the sound subtly. Making that a good thing or a bad thing is at the hands of the user. I dont believe, as some do, that this particular gain control should always be cranked all the way up simply because it strays from a purely straight wire approach.

The majority of Pacifica and P-1/EM card users have found ways to creatively use the pads on their mic pres to manipulate the gain staging to their advantage. The point is that every good mic pre has unique sonic opportunities built in. Some of are easy to arrive at and some take time to discover. The pad is just another tool to learn.

Jon Erickson

[chasman]

hey Jon Erickson (or anybody) you wrote "the pad circuit employed in the Pacifica and 500 series cards is designed to maintain a constant load to the microphone".........

if this is so, could you make a comment about the idea posted above (about the pacifica) regarding pad in for condenser mics and pad out for dynamic and ribbons????????

confused,
chas

[pan60]

Originally Posted by lakeshorephatty

I read an article awhile back that i can't remember the specifics of, but more or less this:

pad in pacifica has an input impedace more suited to condensers like 1500 ohm or so

pad out more like 300 ohm much more suited to dynamics ribbons etc.

They measured this themselves, its not in any manuals or anything.

could this have something to do with it?

Russell

are you sure it was the Pacifica?

Originally Posted by chasman

hey Jon Erickson (or anybody) you wrote "the pad circuit employed in the Pacifica and 500 series cards is designed to maintain a constant load to the microphone".........

if this is so, could you make a comment about the idea posted above (about the pacifica) regarding pad in for condenser mics and pad out for dynamic and ribbons????????

confused,
chas

i would go with what Jon says, as he is a bit of an authority on these: )~

Originally Posted by Helsing

The pad circuit employed in the Pacifica and 500 series cards is designed to maintain a constant load to the microphone.

Jon Erickson

[chasman]

thanks very much pan60.

[Helsing]

Originally Posted by chasman

hey Jon Erickson (or anybody) you wrote "the pad circuit employed in the Pacifica and 500 series cards is designed to maintain a constant load to the microphone".........

if this is so, could you make a comment about the idea posted above (about the pacifica) regarding pad in for condenser mics and pad out for dynamic and ribbons????????

confused,
chas

Chas,

One way to look at it is that condensor mics, generally speaking, have a higher output level than ribbon or dynamic microphones. You are going to be put in the position to need a pad more often with a condensor mic than with a dynamic or ribbon. Stick a Shure SM-7 dynamic in channel 1 of a Pacifica and a U-87 in channel 2. If you put both of these mics in front of a drum kit you would quickly find yourself engaging the pad on the U87 side while you would likely leave the SM-7 pad disengaged. Perhaps this is an oversimplification but I think the impedance matching debate is often more of an intellectual endeavor than a discussion about how to get the most out of our tools.

To comment on above quote, I don't believe that pad in for condensors and pad out for dynamics is something people should automatically apply for the Pacifica or any other mic pre with a pad. I have used a lot of mic pres and consoles with pads of this variety and am not lockstep in how I use them.

Hope this helps.

Jon Erickson

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Helsing

Tony,

Where are you getting this info that there is a significant impedance change with the pad engaged? The pad circuit employed in the Pacifica and 500 series cards is designed to maintain a constant load to the microphone.

Does a pad make a mic pre sound slightly different when engaged or not? Yes, as inserting anything in the signal path will do, but not necessarily in a negative way. Take the example of Neve based mic pre circuit that uses an output or inter-gain stage attenuator. The position of that pot will alter the sound subtly. Making that a good thing or a bad thing is at the hands of the user. I dont believe, as some do, that this particular gain control should always be cranked all the way up simply because it strays from a purely straight wire approach.

The majority of Pacifica and P-1/EM card users have found ways to creatively use the pads on their mic pres to manipulate the gain staging to their advantage. The point is that every good mic pre has unique sonic opportunities built in. Some of are easy to arrive at and some take time to discover. The pad is just another tool to learn.

Jon Erickson

It was stated in an article as lakeshorephatty mentioned above. I've never seen this article, But I've also heard similar info from other people. I don't have any test equipment here, but it seems logical that impedance change, rather than gain staging would account for a sound difference of this nature. Maybe you can test a production unit... it's possible this is just an urban myth.

[Helsing]

Urban myth? This is a flag pin, a non-issue. Pads like this have been used for the past 30+ years in mic pres, microphones, consoles, TV, radio, military. It can also be found in the Pacifica, P-1 and a few boxes in your current product line. It has been implemented correctly and frankly it is annoying when a dealer for a product I have designed starts making public commentary on internal circuits they don't fully understand. If you want to speak further about this please pm me because I don't have time to police the internet for misinformation.

Jon Erickson