Good Compressor @ a budget?

[kincept]

So Ive been looking for a bigger more upfront sound, and I had a chance to talk with a writer at computer music magazine. he said that I shouldn't focus on the preamp so much, (that the duet is Okay) , that I need to add a hardware compressor vs software to get a bigger fuller vocal sound. ??

Well Ive spent all my time researching preamps to add, now Im looking for a compressor, and am clueless in what to look for other than a few brands a recognize?

one problem is I dont think I can hook a compressor up to the duet? is it possible? or do I have to have an external preamp to do so?

I do rap and spoken word if that helps you recommend a compressor?

I was looking at
the FMR RNC, and wondered what the RNLA would offer?
the APHEX compressor looks pretty good.??
Presonus ??

thanks guys!

[piano]

Cheap but fairly good...?

DBX 1066 $400 or the FMR Really Nice Compressor $175.

[jdier]

I am not the right guy to ask on this since I do not know the duet and I have no experience on rap, however...

1. Check the Duet for a 1/4" insert jack on it. That is where you would patch the compressor in.

2. Consider a mic replacement. Not sure what you are using, but perhaps that is an option for you. A different mic will make more of a difference in sound than a preamp (in my experience.)

3. Try out software compressors. I am not sure why you could not achieve an up front sound with a well recorded vocal track using SW compressors. I am sure there are some great high end HW compressors that do things that the SW cannot, but for the most part you should be able to get in the ball park with software.

As a side note I would suggest reading up on mic technique. No offense meant, just pointing out that mic placement, room, angle of address... they all have big effects on the vocal track (at least for regular singing... I am sure for rap too)

Finally, if your current software does not have a nice set of compressors download the free version of Reaper and give some of the compressors in there a run. Not saying they are better or worse than anything else, but there are a lot of them and I feel they give you a lot of options for shaping sound.

Hope this is useful.

[heavi5ide]

I really like my RNC but it's very clean sounding. Will push a vocal up front the way any compressor will -- by limiting the dynamic range so it's a bit denser in its loudness... but it won't make the vocal "airy," "spitty and slightly crackly" and "in-your-face" exactly. Not a lot of color. I don't actually have any heavily colored hw compressors yet, but that's what I think you'll be looking for -- something a little more dirty.

Nick

[Snatchman]

Be careful also. Sometimes a compressor ( especially not a good one) will end up giving you the opposite that you are looking. Thin vocals..! ( if used excessively) BTW..the ART Pro VLA does a good job on some vocals...YMMV...

[jniff]

A bunch of places have ART PRO VLAs on closeout. I got one recently, new, for under $200 including shipping, and for the money spent I'm very happy. It might not have the versatility of the RNC, but it sounds good to my ears.

[drumkideric]

Personally, I would save up for awhile and get a nicer compressor, such as a Disstressor. You won't regret it.

[TonyBelmont]

Buy a quality mic (don't know what you have now), and then upgrade the preamp. You could still gain a substantial improvement from upgrading the preamp.

Worry about a compressor later.

[Oli_W]

SO I have an RNC and don't get me wrong, I love it. Its "really nice" setting is awesome as a master buss compressor, but it doesn't colour the sound in a way that makes you think 'that sounds phat'

I've heard the RNLA does... the shameless dirt and character it adds might be just up your rap alley, especially at the cost. Software compressors can do just the same job though, but I don't know about you - I often like to look away from a screen to get something to sound right?

Just setting different compressor settings could make the difference you're looking for... I tend to use a ratio of around 2:1, attack of 0.1ms, release around 50-70ms, adjust threshold to taste....

I'm learning that mic selection, placement and room acoustics must be the priority though!

Good luck

[duckoff]

The duet doesn't have insert points so you will have to get a compressor & a preamp if you wanna go the hardware route ( unless you bounce your vocal through it after tracking )

No disrespect to the writer, but i think his suggestion might have been a 'glamorous' reflex answer.

You can use ITB compression to help get your vocal more upfront, so I'd agree with the mic / pre suggestion.

[jdier]

Originally Posted by duckoff

The duet doesn't have insert points so you will have to get a compressor & a preamp if you wanna go the hardware route ( unless you bounce your vocal through it after tracking )

No disrespect to the writer, but i think his suggestion might have been a 'glamorous' reflex answer.

You can use ITB compression to help get your vocal more upfront, so I'd agree with the mic / pre suggestion.

Sorry, I was not clear. I meant check to see if the Duet HAD and insert.

Re reading makes it sound like I knew there was one and he just was not looking hard enough.

Thanks for the clarification. (no disrespect taken)

[duckoff]

No disrespect to the writer, but i think his suggestion might have been a 'glamorous' reflex answer.

I didn't mean you jdier - your suggestions were good

I was talking about the music mag writer in the original post - '' in my humble opinion what you need is a ..... [ insert cool sounding product ] ''

As a side note I would suggest reading up on mic technique. No offense meant, just pointing out that mic placement, room, angle of address... they all have big effects on the vocal track

totally agree - this will have waaay more impact than mic / pre / compressor, as will your performance

[peeder]

Originally Posted by jniff

A bunch of places have ART PRO VLAs on closeout. I got one recently, new, for under $200 including shipping, and for the money spent I'm very happy. It might not have the versatility of the RNC, but it sounds good to my ears.

+1 just unpacked one, retubed NOS 12AT7's, very fine...

[Podgorny]

Originally Posted by duckoff

The duet doesn't have insert points so you will have to get a compressor & a preamp if you wanna go the hardware route

I don't understand this fixation with insert points on preamps.
What's so wrong with running the output of your pre into the input of the compressor?

[peeder]

Originally Posted by Podgorny

I don't understand this fixation with insert points on preamps.
What's so wrong with running the output of your pre into the input of the compressor?

There's no output before the ADCs at all, so you have to print dry if you're using one of these preamps built into a cheap computer-audio interface.

[Kiwiburger]

This thread is based on the assumption that a compressor is more important than the preamp for vocals - and that software is incapable.

Considering this is all on a budget, I would like to disagree. But it does depend a lot on the mic being used. I think cheap LCDs are probably the wrong choice for many budget studios, and very often better results are obtained with cheap dynamics mics, e.g. SM57, 58, SM7. But cheap dynamic mics really need a decent preamp to shine. A hot-output chinese LCD might seem, at first listen, to be way better, simply because it's louder and brighter. But it will probably pickup more room sound than you really want in a budget room. And it will probably sound harsh and essy.

If money was tight, I would rather have a excellent preamp than a mediocre preamp and mediocre compressor of the same dollar value.

24 bits has enough dynamic range to allow the tracking of a vocal without compression. Or if you have an out-of-control singer, record two SM57s taped together, use both channels with a 12dB difference in gain settings. Comp the tracks together and automate later.

The advantage of not tracking with a compressor is that you can automate the extreme dynamics before processing the signal with an actual compressor. That avoids the damage done by strong compressor settings.

Often what is desirable in a compressor is the side-effect of distortion/saturation/harmonics. Instead of dissing software plugins for being too clean, why not use some saturation plugins to put in the desirable harmonics.

On a budget.

[SK1]

On a budget for hip hop right ????

SM7
API 512
DBX 160

[Podgorny]

Originally Posted by peeder

There's no output before the ADCs at all, so you have to print dry if you're using one of these preamps built into a cheap computer-audio interface.

Aha.
I understand why it applies in this situation.

In another thread, however, someone mentioned that the Grace preamps didn't have inserts for compressors, and I'm wondering where people are getting the idea that this is how it works.

[stagefright13]

After reading thru I think on a budget an Art Prochannel would be perfect. It's not real expensive and has a tube preamp and tube compressor and tube eq in 1 unit. I used one for a Big Momma rapper last year and she sounded great thru that. She is still smiling. She was also really good btw. And was alot of fun.

And it has a real pro VLA inside (single channel) with an extra switch not found on pro VLA. Great box for you I would think. Just pop one of them into your line input and you are set. And doesn't sound only good on rap. It is very versatile. I used it for VO also for a cooking show. And a VO for a dental instrument intructional video. And alot of other stuff. Such as a snare pre or kick.

[jeremycox]

160

[stagefright13]

KIWI nailed it! the preamp and mic is more important. If you have good plugins they are more than capable.

[jeremycox]

Originally Posted by stagefright13

KIWI nailed it! the preamp and mic is more important. If you have good plugins they are more than capable.

really depends on what you're trying to do...

[stagefright13]

Depends on what plugins ya got too. I like hardware. But if ya got a great take you can compress with a plugin. I'm sure most will agree. Hpoefully!


I would use a Prochannel in his instance without even thinking about it. I am not an Art fanboy either. All hardware and everything he needs including a nice EQ. (wich he didn't ask for)

[kincept]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Buy a quality mic (don't know what you have now), and then upgrade the preamp. You could still gain a substantial improvement from upgrading the preamp.

Worry about a compressor later.

I have the AT 4047 just got it , cant deal with the psychological stress it causes to shop for another mic, OMG its stressfull! and goes around in circles

Im using the DUET and was planning on upgrading the preamp to either one of these

PSOLO
APHEX 207
RNP
GRACE 101
UA 110

I was told by this guy at a expensive boutique plae that none of those preamps will be much better than the DUET's.???

what do you think tony?

[kincept]

Originally Posted by duckoff

The duet doesn't have insert points so you will have to get a compressor & a preamp if you wanna go the hardware route ( unless you bounce your vocal through it after tracking )

No disrespect to the writer, but i think his suggestion might have been a 'glamorous' reflex answer.

You can use ITB compression to help get your vocal more upfront, so I'd agree with the mic / pre suggestion.

what is ITB compression?

[kincept]

Since so many of you guys have responded id like to ask another question.

setting up the vocals for rap?

Do you think its better to increase the gain on the pre amp and step back a bit? or decrease the gain and get closer to the mic without peaking?

I have a tendancy to clip, or be to low cant find the sweet spot?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by kincept

I was told by this guy at a expensive boutique plae that none of those preamps will be much better than the DUET's.???

what do you think tony?

I think you should buy a better preamp than the units you are looking at...

Get a Brent Averill 1272 or Avedis MA5....

[kragg]

Hi
Any suggestions for a budget compressor dedicated to synth basses and drum machines compression ?

(the FMR RNC seems better for accoustic takes, and not so great for basses : is it true ?
I was also considering the Art Pro VLA 2)...
Any advices ?

Thank you !

[peeder]

Originally Posted by kragg

Hi
Any suggestions for a budget compressor dedicated to synth basses and drum machines compression ?

(the FMR RNC seems better for accoustic takes, and not so great for basses : is it true ?
I was also considering the Art Pro VLA 2)...
Any advices ?

Thank you !

I use an original dbx 166 blackface on bass with great success. I paid $145.

[LiquidArmy]

Another bump for the DBX 160. When starting out, I made the mistake of buying a less expensive outboard comp. Luckily, I was given the advice of saving up for a versatile box like the Distressor. Can use with success on just about anything, especially tracking vocals to digital.