SONGWRITERS... Preparing demos for publishers?

[Mr. Liszt]

Hey people,

I have an opportunity to present some of my work to some representatives to see about publishing next month. It's actually not a huge deal but nonetheless, this will be the first chance that I have had to represent my work to bona-fide professional that can do something for it so it's a big personal step.

Anyway...

I want to know from those of you that have done this kind of thing before how you prepare your material for these kind of meetings.

What I am mainly wondering is the extent to which you arrange/produce the pieces.

For example...

The songs that I have are for modern country artists, some songs are aimed at Norah Jonesish artists and others are modern rock/pop. In all cases I have produced the songs to what I would call the full extent; as sophisticated as possible in arrangement and as sonically slick as my engineering skills will allow. I really love arranging and working with right performers to pull of my recordings. I have a habit of working with everything until I feel that it is a complete piece of work and broadcast ready in my mind at least.

Now, someone I met the other day, not an experienced professional published songwriter but pretty sure he know what was up for the most part, was mentioning that publishers and such prefer that songs presented to them be fairly sparse in arrangement. He went on to say that a modern country song for example would do best as only vocal and guitar/piano recording for this kind of purpose. And that makes sense to me for publishers publish "songs" and not arrangements/productions, right? I am guessing that a published "song" will end up as a melody and words scored on the treble clef with pop chord symbols for the changes. Your super slick 8 different pitched stacked vocal harmony moment that "really makes the song" does not necessarily, well, make the "song." A great producer can take an otherwise lame composition and make it shine with various production/arranging techniques but without drastic rewrites in melody and lyric content it is never going to be a successful song. I reason that if the song does not stand out as vocal and piano/guitar stripped recording then publishers would not be interested in the material. I have found that very popular successful songs translate very well to even a two part solo piano composition with a single bass line and treble melody. Is this the key then? Is this what reps are trying to narrow down?

But...

Is it this simple? And can you trust the rep listening to your material to properly imagine how it might sound in various styles. Because some music on the other hand does not exactly translate optimally to a two part solo piano piece.

Here is what one side of me thinks that reps would possibly be looking for:

- Uniquity of the primary melody(s) and chord pattern - that it doesn't resemble any other current song or not so distant song. Also that it be impossibly infectious.

- Relevance of the lyrical content with current cultural trends including better than average clever turns of phrase and most importantly some indescribably meaningful hook or such.

Nothing else. Pop production techniques are fairly straight forward (but not necessarily easy to accomplish by any means so don't take offense pop producers) so why do they need to hear a hyper-produced demo. That step could just as easily be left to the production team behind the album and artist that a given published song was picked up by. They are going to reproduce the same efforts anyway so why so I waste your time?

The other side of me thinks that reps might be looking for simply a distinct sonic essence - something that simply kick serious ass. The kind of thing that only a full production can only bring out. If you are dead sure that your song would be great for Meatloaf then why not make it sound like the real thing if you can? Since I enjoy producing and arranging so much I hope this is sometimes true.

Then the third side of me knows that the answer is just about always in the middle - a happy medium between the two extremes of hyper-produced and vocal and guitar/piano only recording. Just enough production to make the song shine in the genre intended by the songwriter. In this case it is still tricky though.

Anyway, I really don't know so the effort of knowledgeable posters would really be appreciated.

Anyone haves any thoughts?

[robmix]

I wouldn't trust many people in the biz today to hear through a demo. Polish 'em up, find singers that represent artists you want your stuff pitched to, and make it sound like a record.

[Chucho]

A while back I played some pop/RnB songs to some business people and I went for the vanilla production because it was "all about the song". I came away realizing they wanted to hear the finished thing.

I can't speak about the country scene. However I am currently preparing some countryish songs and have decided to go for the best production I can manage. If they don't like a particular song with a big production then they probably never will like it.

[Digitar]

Mr liszt

I have been on both sides of the fence in the Nashville publishing game. In the past the Nashville songwriting mantra went " Three Chords and The Truth " and to some extent it's still true but they're more open to new ideas as in " Change or Die ". But in Nashville the song is KING.

As a producer I've received many, many demos with vocal and guitar/piano backing and it took an exceptional melody and lyric to truly stand out. With a fully produced demo you kind of feel the direction is already laid out for better or worse, it can be a distraction but you might find a kernal of an idea that you can use to bring the song to the next level. But it all still comes down to the melody and the lyric just as the person you talked to told you.

In Nashville production is the polish but the song is the foundation. As far as the publisher they'll like whatever it takes to "SELL" the song not just publish it.

As far as worrying about sounding like someone else, just listen to country radio you'll find as soon as something becomes a big hit there will be more coming in the same direction, just like all other styles of music. That's how it's always been in the music business. Just don't try to be too clever with the lyrics because they can turn into cliches real quick.

I kind of agree with the third side of you . Go with the flow, if you feel like it should be bare bones to showcase the melody and lyric or fully produced to showcase more of the groove then do it. This way you won't have any regrets. And in my opinion that's what it's all about. Just make sure the song and production moves YOU. Then I'm sure someone else will feel it to.

[Mr. Liszt]

Originally Posted by robmix

I wouldn't trust many people in the biz today to hear through a demo. Polish 'em up, find singers that represent artists you want your stuff pitched to, and make it sound like a record.

Thanks Rob. That's my gut feeling. And it's super fun to do it all the way anyway.

Originally Posted by Chucho

A while back I played some pop/RnB songs to some business people and I went for the vanilla production because it was "all about the song". I came away realizing they wanted to hear the finished thing.

I can't speak about the country scene. However I am currently preparing some countryish songs and have decided to go for the best production I can manage. If they don't like a particular song with a big production then they probably never will like it.

Chucho, Why can't I PM you? Tell me how I can get a hold of you.

Originally Posted by Digitar

Mr liszt

I have been on both sides of the fence in the Nashville publishing game. In the past the Nashville songwriting mantra went " Three Chords and The Truth " and to some extent it's still true but they're more open to new ideas as in " Change or Die ". But in Nashville the song is KING.

As a producer I've received many, many demos with vocal and guitar/piano backing and it took an exceptional melody and lyric to truly stand out. With a fully produced demo you kind of feel the direction is already laid out for better or worse, it can be a distraction but you might find a kernal of an idea that you can use to bring the song to the next level. But it all still comes down to the melody and the lyric just as the person you talked to told you.

In Nashville production is the polish but the song is the foundation. As far as the publisher they'll like whatever it takes to "SELL" the song not just publish it.

As far as worrying about sounding like someone else, just listen to country radio you'll find as soon as something becomes a big hit there will be more coming in the same direction, just like all other styles of music. That's how it's always been in the music business. Just don't try to be too clever with the lyrics because they can turn into cliches real quick.

I kind of agree with the third side of you . Go with the flow, if you feel like it should be bare bones to showcase the melody and lyric or fully produced to showcase more of the groove then do it. This way you won't have any regrets. And in my opinion that's what it's all about. Just make sure the song and production moves YOU. Then I'm sure someone else will feel it to.

Thanks! That helps tremendously. Regarding your experience as a producer, did you ever find that you made a mediocre song that you were given dynamite only through additional arranging and such? Or did you do a lot of rewrites to get something up to par? I'm assuming you were given songs by a label assigned to an artist?

[gainreduction]

Originally Posted by Digitar

Just make sure the song and production moves YOU. Then I'm sure someone else will feel it to.

That right there is possibly the best advice you can get.

Be true to the song, your intentions and visions and don't try to force yourself into delivering something you *think* is what the A&R want to hear. Don't be afraid to do your own thing. There are copycats and cloners around every corner and you don't wanna be one of them.

The demo thing is a two edged sword since your publisher might hear through a simple, stripped down demo if the song is outstanding but you can be sure that whoever the publisher will be pitching the song to (mostly including the artist aswell) will not. That's where it falls apart.

You're into modern contry. Now say you want to make it on to the next Faith Hill album. How many other songs do you think you're up against ? Probably thousands. What do you think will make the album, a fantastic song with a fantastic production that sounds like it's on the air already or a fantastic song that screams "half finished and bedroom studio" all over it ?

The A&R guys job is to find music he thinks he can sell and something well produced and "ready for the airbands" is a sellable product in his world.

The perfect demo production is the one that never gets in the way of the song. It's there supporting it, making the song look the best it can but still leaving it open enough for the artist or A&R to imagine the final direction and be able to hear it in their minds.

The most commonly made mistake among up and coming songwriters is the urge to demo everything they write. While this may be educational in its own right it's usually a waste of time and energy. Demos take time to make and doing that wears you out over time.

Usually the fresh excitement over a newborn song overshadows ones objectivity and the fact that the song is not good enough and not worthy of beeing recorded. You're better off spending lots of time writing lots of songs, revisiting them, let them rest, get back to them, do whatever but make sure that what you're recording is worthy of beeing recorded.

It's not about quantity. One smash is infinitely better than the fact that you wrote and demoed 100 songs in a year and not one of them was cut.

Best of luck with your meeting, hope you get good response and that it opens a door or two. thumbsup

[Chucho]

I am now PM enabled.
Was it you I was speaking to about Serge Gainsbourg ?

just reading the responses...
I think a lot of people are in that spot where they don't know how far to push their own vision, or their idea of someone else's vision, or a copy of a hit or a complete rip off or I dunno what.

[Mr. Liszt]

Originally Posted by Chucho

I am now PM enabled.
Was it you I was speaking to about Serge Gainsbourg ?

just reading the responses...
I think a lot of people are in that spot where they don't know how far to push their own vision, or their idea of someone else's vision, or a copy of a hit or a complete rip off or I dunno what.

Yes! And I have some new stuff you should hear that I think you would be into. Some of it directly inspired from my Gainsbourg experience. Will PM you later.

[C Heat]

Wow.

Some very good commentary from Digitar and gainreduction

Hat's off to you both

[Digitar]

Thanks! That helps tremendously. Regarding your experience as a producer, did you ever find that you made a mediocre song that you were given dynamite only through additional arranging and such? Or did you do a lot of rewrites to get something up to par? I'm assuming you were given songs by a label assigned to an artist?[/quote]


Mr Liszt

I can remember a good example from a few years back. I went into Criteria Miami with a great female country singer for an album project and she was sold on a mediocre song. We got the best musicians and engineers and went around and around with the arrangement. But no matter what we did it was still mediocre. There are a few songs that slip by the guards at the labels but they're usually more on the novelty side of things.

Usually to get something good it takes rewrites. I remember hearing that Jon Ims who wrote the Trisha Yearwood hit " She's In Love With The Boy "
rewrote the song 38 times before it was released. And the rest is history.

As a songwriter/producer I usually like to see what's available for an artist that isn't anything like I normally write. And will take all the submissions that I think are in the same vein that the artist sees themselves in.

Good luck with the publisher. Hope things work out for you.

[dreamsongs]

My experience is to make the best demo that you can and that means a Master recording these days.

I've been to countless meetings in the past 5 years and I haven't encountered too many guitar/piano/vocal demos. I did hear some in country presentations but almost never in pop, rock, ac or r&b.

A lot has been said already and there's been quite a few threads about this. I can tell you one thing definitely, and that is - make sure the lead vocalist is killer. I've seen more songs sold by a great lead vox on demos than anything else.

If you have a great vocalist that can sell the song, with a great melody and lyrics and adequate production you're half way there.

Of course then you have to put up with people critiquing your song just because they can that mostly don't make much sense but that's another thread.

And lastly - I've returned many contracts in the last few years from small to medium time Publishers that are just out to make a buck on beginning (see desperate) songwriters.

Be careful about this and make sure that you have an entertainment attorney read the contract unless you know what to look for. There are many creative ways to make money on a song that you would never suspect and it's all in the fine print.

Never sign a contract blindly just because you want a song published. Published means "dick" unless you see some money and if you don't, it's only gonna hold the song up longer and until the contract runs out if it has any potential anyway.

Good luck...

[Mr. Liszt]

Originally Posted by dreamsongs

A lot has been said already and there's been quite a few threads about this. I can tell you one thing definitely, and that is - make sure the lead vocalist is killer. I've seen more songs sold by a great lead vox on demos than anything else.

I'm with you there and the only evidence I ever needed for this point is simply listening to karaoke. I always think to myself before the next song and singer come up, "Now listen to this next one, pretend you've never heard it before and see if it's a hit." It is a gigantic difference to the real thing! Karaoke is just for fun and I am not trying to dis karaoke people, there are some pretty good ones at some places, but it is a fine example of what you are talking about. If most of those performances were brought in as demos to someone who could get past the singer and see the merit of the song except for loving, patient visionaries.

I am currently researching attorneys. There are so many out there though and who can tell the difference. If you know of some promising ones do let me know.

Again, thanks for all the very helpful replies. Don't even know what to say.

[Al Rogers]

Silly question, but have you registered your copyrights with the Library of Congress? If you fail to do so you will give up your right to sue for statutory damages and to recover legal and court fees. Are you a member of ASCAP or BMI? They can provide a lot of good info.

As far as professional demos... go here to Larry John McNally's website and in the upper right click on the streaming audio. Listen to some of his recordings/demos and you'll see how simple yet effective they are. Some are just voice and guitar.

Then look at his discography. You'll see that he's sold a few of his songs to people... people like the Eagles and Bonnie Raitt. He's doing OK as a songwriter.

A loooooong time ago Larry used to be a regular performer at a weekly open mic I ran at a pub in Santa Monica. In his own words, he had been "chewed up by the big record machine." He credits that time he spent performing his songs for real people at "street level" as a time when things began to work for him.

Before you try to sell your songs get out and test them in front of a live audience. You'll learn more from that than from anything else you could possibly do. There's nothing like it. Larry is not the only pro songwriter who used to come down to that open mic and perform incognito to prepare for an industry showcase.

Prepare. That's my 2 cents worth. Of course your mileage may vary.

-Al

[chrisgraff]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

You're into modern contry. Now say you want to make it on to the next Faith Hill album. How many other songs do you think you're up against ? Probably thousands. What do you think will make the album, a fantastic song with a fantastic production that sounds like it's on the air already or a fantastic song that screams "half finished and bedroom studio" all over it ?

The reality is the great majority of songs pitched to "A" artists are never even listened to. Great songs are rejected every day because of who's name isn't on the demo.

If you're trying to pitch in Nashville, my advice is this: Write Hillary Lindsey/Jeffery Steele/Craig Wiseman on it, with your phone number!

[goldenlotus]

Great thread guys lots of good info!

[gainreduction]

Originally Posted by chrisgraff

The reality is the great majority of songs pitched to "A" artists are never even listened to. Great songs are rejected every day because of who's name isn't on the demo.

Unfortunately this is true for many genres, not only country.

But don't give up, it IS possible to make it all the way to a big album without beeing a name writer. I've seen it happen.

[chrisgraff]

Originally Posted by chrisgraff

The reality is the great majority of songs pitched to "A" artists are never even listened to. Great songs are rejected every day because of who's name isn't on the demo.

If you're trying to pitch in Nashville, my advice is this: Write Hillary Lindsey/Jeffery Steele/Craig Wiseman on it, with your phone number!

Ok...so don't do that. But it is almost cliche for a writer to land a big single, then get all his previously rejected songs cut.

As far as the demo, if you're going to spend the money on full production, hire someone wherever you're pitching. Better for it to sound like what "they" are used to hearing.

[robmix]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

The most commonly made mistake among up and coming songwriters is the urge to demo everything they write. While this may be educational in its own right it's usually a waste of time and energy. Demos take time to make and doing that wears you out over time.

Usually the fresh excitement over a newborn song overshadows ones objectivity and the fact that the song is not good enough and not worthy of beeing recorded. You're better off spending lots of time writing lots of songs, revisiting them, let them rest, get back to them, do whatever but make sure that what you're recording is worthy of beeing recorded.

Though I agree with the rest of your post, I do take issue with the above. Part of the "demo" process is fleshing out the arrangement, and in many cases that arrangement is what forces rewrites, changes the hook, inspires new melodies, etc. I usually bail out on a bad song way before it's actually finished. And in modern pop production, the track is (unfortunately) everything, for me the demo is almost done by the time we're done with the lyrics.

[uncle duncan]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the most important aspect of a demo for Nashville - short intro! Almost as important as that is - no lead break. Or if you must have a lead break, keep it short and to the point.

In Nashville, they're usually looking for 'tempo' (fast) songs, which usually work better with a groove - meaning, production. But production does not mean you have to fill up every inch of space. Better to find a hook-lick here or there, and then leave some space for the producer's imagination. Nashville is more about hook-licks than they are about wall-to-wall sound and stacked vocals and such.

Many times, ballads are pitched as guitar/vocal or piano/vocal. In fact, there's one of those playing on the radio right now - no production to speak of, just a chick singer and a guitar, with some pedal steel way in the background. But be aware that ballads are the last thing they're looking for. The have piles and piles of ballads.

The other thing to consider is, generally, when they're so desperate that they're listening to outside songs for a project, it's because the accountants at the label don't think they hear a hit. A hit must be stupid enough to have mass appeal, and yet clever enough to have staying power. It must still intrigue the listener after it's been on the radio for weeks on end. Every single line of the song must be a jaw-dropper. No amount of production can hide that. Especially the opening. If you don't hook the industry person within the first 20 seconds, you're screwed. They'll turn it off before they even get to the chorus - the chorus you worked so hard on, with the stacked vocals and the amazing hook lick.

Also, in Nashville, they're used to everything being in tune. That doesn't mean Autotune in auto mode, but it does mean fixing pitchy notes. They're always looking for a reason to say 'no' and an out-of-tune vocal or guitar will do it.

And yet another thing - consider how the song reflects on the singer. A song is nothing but a script for the singer to look good on stage. (at least that's how the singer looks at it.) You have to make them appear clever, sensitive, sexy, and you have to give them some nice notes to sing. Generally it's the non-writer singers who are doing cover songs - people like Martina McBride, who always seem to find songs with the big dramatic 'money-note' to make them look good. The singer/songwriters are doing the songs that don't require a great vocal, but they're writing their own.

Good luck.

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by uncle duncan

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the most important aspect of a demo for Nashville - short intro! Almost as important as that is - no lead break. Or if you must have a lead break, keep it short and to the point.

In Nashville, they're usually looking for 'tempo' (fast) songs, which usually work better with a groove - meaning, production. But production does not mean you have to fill up every inch of space. Better to find a hook-lick here or there, and then leave some space for the producer's imagination. Nashville is more about hook-licks than they are about wall-to-wall sound and stacked vocals and such.

Many times, ballads are pitched as guitar/vocal or piano/vocal. In fact, there's one of those playing on the radio right now - no production to speak of, just a chick singer and a guitar, with some pedal steel way in the background. But be aware that ballads are the last thing they're looking for. The have piles and piles of ballads.

The other thing to consider is, generally, when they're so desperate that they're listening to outside songs for a project, it's because the accountants at the label don't think they hear a hit. A hit must be stupid enough to have mass appeal, and yet clever enough to have staying power. It must still intrigue the listener after it's been on the radio for weeks on end. Every single line of the song must be a jaw-dropper. No amount of production can hide that. Especially the opening. If you don't hook the industry person within the first 20 seconds, you're screwed. They'll turn it off before they even get to the chorus - the chorus you worked so hard on, with the stacked vocals and the amazing hook lick.

Also, in Nashville, they're used to everything being in tune. That doesn't mean Autotune in auto mode, but it does mean fixing pitchy notes. They're always looking for a reason to say 'no' and an out-of-tune vocal or guitar will do it.

And yet another thing - consider how the song reflects on the singer. A song is nothing but a script for the singer to look good on stage. (at least that's how the singer looks at it.) You have to make them appear clever, sensitive, sexy, and you have to give them some nice notes to sing. Generally it's the non-writer singers who are doing cover songs - people like Martina McBride, who always seem to find songs with the big dramatic 'money-note' to make them look good. The singer/songwriters are doing the songs that don't require a great vocal, but they're writing their own.

Good luck.

In my experience with Nashville in the past few years, this is right on the money.

And I'll add, if you want to pitch in Nashville, get the demo done in Nashville. There's a million studios with some real talented cats who know exactly how to present it.

I tried for years to produce those country demos myself but I eventually succumbed to the Nash machine. Plus, I don't have a twang and a pedal steel guitar and either way I couldn't get it as close as those guys are getting it anyway...

This is strictly for country. Pop/rock and other genres is another animal...

[popmann]

You know...it's funny, everytime a publisher/producer hears my stuff here, they say "It's great-but it's not country, so I don't know what I can do with it."

...and if I play it for anyone outside of this town, they say, "It's too country for my taste--you should shop it in Nashville."

Of course, I'm of the belief that other than hard core old school country, the genre is all arrangement. You can take a Heart tune from the 80s, remove synths (or replace with B3), add a Tele/Ac30 track, steel guitar, and a singer with a twang, and that "hard rock/pop" is 100% Nashville'ized. Check the new duet between Jon Bon Jovi and Leeann Rimes. In fact, to that end, check out Leann's pop record she released worldwide a few years ago but never mentions here. They took the steel away...some synth pads...some drum loop/machine back beats--yet, at least one of the tunes is actually done on her "country" Amercian release.

I've met a number of successful songwriters here. They ALL say the same thing. Take your song, hire a twangy singer--you have to make it sound country." In fact a lot of them spend a majority of their time cutting demos of their songs that they wouldn't play for anyone else--effectively ignoring what they really want to do with the song in order to make a "radio country" version to shop.

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by popmann

You know...it's funny, everytime a publisher/producer hears my stuff here, they say "It's great-but it's not country, so I don't know what I can do with it."

...and if I play it for anyone outside of this town, they say, "It's too country for my taste--you should shop it in Nashville."

Funny thing is for me for a while it was the opposite.

I had a Publisher some few years ago who was a real pain in the ass about lyrics. He had worked with Pat Benatar, Barry Manilow and lately did some work with J-Lo so I tried and listen to him.

He would nitpick and inspect every line and every aspect of the song in every way possible. It was frustrating to make him happy because he would return the song and say "re-write the last 2 lines of the 2nd verse and send it to me again". Or have me switch the verses or bridges or take out a guitar track or whatever. But 90% of the time it was all about the lyrics.

This went on for a while and even though he was driving me crazy with his perfectionism I started to get really critical myself. After many songs I started to write some real good ones. Slowly but surely he started keeping more songs and only sending some back every so often.

After about a year, when he thought I was there lyrically, he never changed a thing anymore and we were on a yes/no basis. We had developed a wonderful and trusting relationship and he had always stuck with me and believed in my talent.

Sadly, he passed away last year. He died in his sleep at age 56. He taught me a bunch. It was a big blow for me and I miss him dearly.

Now, when I send a Pop or AC song out I get - "This song should go country" because of the lyrics. It's almost a joke because I don't really write for country that much but everytime I send a Pop/AC song out with strong lyrics, they want to turn it into a country song.

So every now and then, I go thru my catalog looking for Pop songs that have too good a lyric for Pop and sending it to Nasville to get Nashvillized. It's probably a better move than to send a Pop song ala Don Henley or Sting and try to pitch that. Artist like that write their own material anyway.

I think everybody needs a Publisher like that. Sort of like a mentor, but it's very hard to find. There's nothing better than to have somebody well connected who believes in you.

To me, the best chances of getting something recorded at any level are country songs in Nashville but you have to play by their rules and they're very very picky. Also, there's some serious talented writers out there who do this everyday for a living. It's not easy.

Any way you want to cut it it's a tough road and you have to keep on grinding...

[goldenlotus]

Originally Posted by uncle duncan

The other thing to consider is, generally, when they're so desperate that they're listening to outside songs for a project, it's because the accountants at the label don't think they hear a hit. A hit must be stupid enough to have mass appeal, and yet clever enough to have staying power. It must still intrigue the listener after it's been on the radio for weeks on end. Every single line of the song must be a jaw-dropper. No amount of production can hide that. Especially the opening. If you don't hook the industry person within the first 20 seconds, you're screwed. They'll turn it off before they even get to the chorus - the chorus you worked so hard on, with the stacked vocals and the amazing hook lick.

Great advice. Thanks

[Johnkenn]

Funny - some of the responses...Unfortunately, no one can tell you exactly what's going to get put on a record...that's up to a MULTITUDE of different reasons...If we knew exactly what they were, I would be doing them myself. The most important thing to do is to write a fantastic song - I'm not being a jerk, but if you do that, the odds rise dramatically. Despite what a lot of people on GS's will tell you, there are thousands of incredible songwriters already here and THOUSANDS of incredible songs that haven't been cut yet. Hell, I feel like I even have a few of them. As for having a certain name on a song and that helping get it cut...well, it might feel like that sometimes - and there's certainly some truth to it...but have you HEARD Hillary or Jeff's songs/demos? If you had, you would understand why they're getting cuts. I hear them and it challenges me...This is where the bar is set, and this is who you have to compete with.
Now - as far as what your demo needs to sound like...Unless you have an immense amount of cash and have access to some of the world's greatest musicians available, I would absolutely ere on the side of sparse production. Write a great song and track with Acoustic, strings, vocal and harmonies...Do something simple and cool...I've had success getting cuts with that approach myself.
Check out my myspace - I feel like there are some very good examples of what competitive pop/country Nashville demos sound like these days...

[Mr. Liszt]

Yes, there are so many excellent replies here and it gives me so many things to think about especially when it comes to writing for Nashville. I have a TON to learn about that and indeed pop in general but things are coming along.

[peeder]

I hafta wonder...how long is Nashville's system going to survive? I mean, is there any Tin Pan Alley left? Nashville seems the last of the Mohicans for songwriters. Performing rights revenues still exist...just. But is there any hope for the patient?

[jmarkham]

Originally Posted by peeder

I hafta wonder...how long is Nashville's system going to survive? I mean, is there any Tin Pan Alley left? Nashville seems the last of the Mohicans for songwriters. Performing rights revenues still exist...just. But is there any hope for the patient?

I don't think the biz can kill Country music .. it resonates at a deeper
level ..

jeff

[vodka gimli]

I'm not too sure about the "every line must be a jaw dropper"...unless you are describing the necessary motion needed to be a "mouth breather".

If the songs in Nashville are so great, and the gatekeepers so particular, why does so much absolute crap get cut? Many levels of "people" need to approve a POS like "Honky Tonk Badonkadonk" or "Chrome" or "International Harvester" or "Hick Town" or any of the other cynical, plastic turds pushed up the charts.

Tom Petty says it like this:

"I don't go for the Nashville way. I don't like those songs that have some clever line for a title. I hate that. You based a while song on this catch phrase. It feels cheap to me, like you're trying to trick me. And they do it all the time and it's just dreadful. I can't stand it."

My experience here is that after you give them an albums worth of tunes, which they say they love, they want more - "to judge your progress as a writer". I have had friends with major label deals and multiple cuts be told that and much more offensive bromides by whatever suit is currently sitting in the chair at ASCAP or BMI or any of the publishing houses in town.

What kind of progress did the writer of "She Thinks My Tractor's Sexy" show, and what was he writing before that gem? The gatekeepers are all in fear of losing their jobs, so they just try to get their own version of whatever is a hit. McGraw spawns Chesney spawns Cagle spawns Owen. Faxes go out asking for songs that are "hits" or "career songs" or "similar to the last record".

When someone actually, inadvertently gives a non-cliche writer a chance, as Melanie Howard did to Mary Gauthier and Lori McKenna, the papers write about how "maverick" and "against the grain" it is to let over-40 songwriters who don't co-write into the party.

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by robmix

I wouldn't trust many people in the biz today to hear through a demo. Polish 'em up, find singers that represent artists you want your stuff pitched to, and make it sound like a record.

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

[popmann]

I'm not too sure about the "every line must be a jaw dropper"...unless you are describing the necessary motion needed to be a "mouth breather".