Best 88 key weighted controller?

[Tibbon]

I've searched high and low, but I can't find a decent 88 key controller, than can fool me into thinking i'm playing a piano. I'm almost to the point of getting a really cheap upright, and getting a Moog Pianobar, and using sampled sounds!

I've tried the Kurzweil ones, the Fatar ones, the Yamaha ones, and the Maudio ones, but they just don't feel real. I got spoiled at my old college playing concert grands on a daily basis, and all of these seems to lack any bounce, or all feel too light. Also all the keys feel so... i dunno well they are plastic, so of course the feel plastic. I'd like something that I close my eyes and imagine it's a real piano. Perhaps i'm just tricking myself into thinking they aren't as good.

[Jose Mrochek]

Good question tibbon. I would like to know myself. A keyboard I fell in love with thoug unfortunately not a controller.. was the motif 8 from yamaha. Great weight feeling overall. To expensive for me though.

Not sure what the model was but, Roland used to have a real nice feeling one. RD-???
It was something like 2800-3000 then. 1992-3ish.

I would check their line since you have not yet.
I worked retail at the time and Roland had miles on the competition.


D

[Tibbon]

You know, maybe for me if they put a little speaker under the keys or something that vibrated as the string on a piano vibrate the keys, i'd believe alot more of them. There's a certain feel through the keys that you get from the whole thing vibrating from the notes.

[littledoodler]

This thread was just covered recently do a search

[warhead]

As far as a good keyboard goes...the Alesis QS8 is real nice for action. The onboard sounds are very nice, especially the piano samples. I own an original QS8 (it's maybe 4 or 5 years old) and it's great and has held up 100% (I don't play that often but when I do it'sHEAVY...OK not ALWAYS , don't know if these QS8.2 are any different other than software but I would investigate first.

Worth checking out..I bought it for good onboard piano sounds and the feel.

War

[krou]

I'm about to order a Studiologic SL-880. A friend of mine has one and it feel pretty damn good to me, very piano-like. Don't need internal sounds but if I did, I would look into Kurzweil's new PC1-X ($1199).

[jabney]

I don't play keys myself, but I do have a Kawai MP 9500 stage piano and it has been very well received by players and listeners alike. The action has received the most praise, but the native Kawai piano sound sits in a mix very nicely. (The Dirty Wurlitzer patch sounds natural too.) As the Sound-on-Sound reviewer noted, the multi-gigabyte samples of Steinway and Bosendorfer would be expected to sound better for a solo, but those can be easily controlled by the Kawai. The Kawai is heavy - over 70 pounds without a case - but still a lot lighter than a spinet, much less a 'high-toned baby grand' (with apologies to Irving Berlin )

[keyboardman]

No single action will be good for everyone just like no single piano sound will be good for everyone. You have to chose the one that is least unacceptable. I prefer the action of Yamaha's weighted keys. The others are not to my liking...especially the cheap "studio controllers". To me, they might as well be unweighted.

I haven't played a single "virtual" piano capable of tricking me into thinking its real while playing. There are several very acceptable ones that sound good playing back from MIDI. Heck, in the right context, they can sound very convincing. But while playing, I'm not fooled into thinking its the real thing.

The Yamaha "GranTouch" thing is pretty cool in that the sound seems to come from a similar place as a real piano but its not good enough to justify lugging it around to a gig.

[Lord Marbury]

The Studio-Logic range feels nothing like a piano. It is a heavy synth action at best. For the best piano like feel, the GEM Pro2/3 is the one. RD-700 by Roland is not particularly piano like, but nonetheless has a great playability to it - and is certainly heavy enough to make a piano player feel comfortable.

[Xestenz]

Do you want the controller specifically for piano sounds, or for other samples as well? I find that a weighted keyboard for anything but emulating keys doesn't work as well for other sample types (from drums to strings, etc. - even for B3) Action is too slow, harder to bang out quick passages, harder to control afterfeel, etc.

I have been pretty pleased with the action on my Yamaha S80, but it sounds like you have already discounted that one so there goes that... (although some heavy hitter piano playing friends of mine were pretty pleased by it - Good case of YMMV.)

If you want the feel of a real piano, why not buy a real piano?

[Nowak]

I'm currently using a Roland RD700 as my main controller, it feels ok, a progressive action which is cool means it's heavier down low and feels little up top. If you're a heavy hitter I would stay away from StudioLogic/Fatar. I had a Fatar board and it was constantly going to the tech for replacement keys as I can be a heavy hitter at times. I recommend the Roland, I'm sure the Yamaha feels ok too.

Stefan Nowak

[chadly]

Screw the Alesis. I hate to be negative- (I've got nothing but respect for cheap gear that works well) but I've worked with keyboardists who have destroyed their alesis keyboards in a hurry because they're not solid enough.

Maybe I've been lucky but I've had nothing but respect for Roland's line, and hope to pick up an RD series as a controller. My experiance with their synths has made me a believer, and my demos with the RD's have went well.

[Larry Mal]

Try the Casio stuff. The piano action is realistic for me- I'm no concert pianist, though. But Casio has such a bad name that the stuff, even when it's good, is pretty cheap. Here's what I bought:

Buy Casio CDP-100 88-Note Weighted Hammer Action Digital Piano online

I'm satisfied. My priorities were: MIDI control, good piano action, and some sort of speaker in case I want to practice on it for some reason. And it had to be cheap. Don't be fooled by the price here, you shouldn't have to pay that much.

The only thing I miss is the pitch wheels that are common to synths.

[John_McEnroe]

I agree that the Roland RD700 is worth checking out.

[seaneldon]

I forget the exact model number, but there was a Casio "Privia" 88key digital piano available new like 2-3 years ago that sounded like complete ass but played VERY VERY well and had MIDI and/or USB outputs that did the trick to trigger stuff. They were like $500 new.

But on a serious note, you will not find a MIDI controller that will come close to the feel of a great piano. You'll just find some MIDI controllers that feel better than most.

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by seaneldon

I forget the exact model number, but there was a Casio "Privia" 88key digital piano available new like 2-3 years ago that sounded like complete ass but played VERY VERY well and had MIDI and/or USB outputs that did the trick to trigger stuff. They were like $500 new.

But on a serious note, you will not find a MIDI controller that will come close to the feel of a great piano. You'll just find some MIDI controllers that feel better than most.

Yep. My ex-gf ended up getting one of these and it was not bad at all! She was also much more on how much it actually felt than just sounded (since we could use Ivory or whatever for sounds). Pretty killer controller. Next best thing to using a Pianobar imho.

[Zep Dude]

I just had to replace my controller, an old Fatar studio 90, so I had a chance to play all the new ones.

The Yamaha CP33 felt the best to me in terms of quickness of action yet piano like throw and weight. I was told it's the only model Yamaha uses that action on. One problem many of these weighted action kybs have is the speed (I guess it's the return speed of the keys) and if you try to play fast repeat chords on the same keys you find your hand is faster than the keys ability to return back up. I never have this problem with a real piano. Anyway, the cp33 is the only keyboard that passed this test for me. The keys are tight and fast like a real piano.

[Honch]

One thing I've noticed over the years, especially in reviews in pro magazines, whenever they're reviewing ANY digital piano or master keyboard, especially hammer action, they compare like this:

1. Kawai vs real acoustic piano
2. Yamaha vs real acoustic piano
3. Roland vs real acoustic piano

I find it very peculiar that the BRAND or model is only important at one end of the comparison. They compare a special model of a special brand to ANY acoustic piano, of any brand out there. Just like if a Steinway has the same action as A Bösendorfer, or can be comparable to any old East German acoustic wreck with a wooden frame.

There are just as many brands and models and variations in the acoustic piano world, so I find it very peculiar that they have a "generic acoustic piano action" as a rule of thumb, or to measure everyting else against at.

Most people I know, judges "good acoustic piano action" to their instrument at home to which they grew up with, and learned playing piano on. When visiting friends other acoustic pianos they go "I don't like the action, feels weird". So there are just as many differences there as there are on the digital pianos different action.

Still, I find it peculiar that all judgements should be compared to something that is just as different and by no means are "one-action-fits-all" acoustic piano action. On top of that, the action of an upright acoustic compared to any grand piano are significantly different just as well.

Anyone else feels the same?

/Honch

[Zep Dude]

Originally Posted by Honch

One thing I've noticed over the years, especially in reviews in pro magazines, whenever they're reviewing ANY digital piano or master keyboard, especially hammer action, they compare like this:

1. Kawai vs real acoustic piano
2. Yamaha vs real acoustic piano
3. Roland vs real acoustic piano

I find it very peculiar that the BRAND or model is only important at one end of the comparison. They compare a special model of a special brand to ANY acoustic piano, of any brand out there. Just like if a Steinway has the same action as A Bösendorfer, or can be comparable to any old East German acoustic wreck with a wooden frame.

There are just as many brands and models and variations in the acoustic piano world, so I find it very peculiar that they have a "generic acoustic piano action" as a rule of thumb, or to measure everyting else against at.

Most people I know, judges "good acoustic piano action" to their instrument at home to which they grew up with, and learned playing piano on. When visiting friends other acoustic pianos they go "I don't like the action, feels weird". So there are just as many differences there as there are on the digital pianos different action.

Still, I find it peculiar that all judgements should be compared to something that is just as different and by no means are "one-action-fits-all" acoustic piano action. On top of that, the action of an upright acoustic compared to any grand piano are significantly different just as well.

Anyone else feels the same?

/Honch

I agree, there is a range of real piano actions and some can be downright horrible. Eliminating the worst of the lot there are general expectations one has of a good piano -Steinway, Yamaha etc. The mechanisms that create these actions are elaborate and painstakenly assembled and weighted by hand for each key. No wonder it's difficult for a midi controller to mimick them!

Years ago, Kurtzweil built a controller that actually had some piano parts (even the hammers I think) but even this was different from a real piano. It felt a bit looser.

From my experience, none of the midi controllers cross into the general range of any of the different good acoustic pianos. So given that, you just have to go with whatever works for your fingers. I really like my Yamah CP33. Over a course of several months when I visited various music stores I always chose that model over everything else -and it's not even really a dedicated midi controller. For some reason it's the only model where Yamaha uses that particular action. Maybe it's more expensive to implement?

One other option if you really want piano action:

Remove the key mechanism from a real piano, put it in a box (the hammers would have to bounce off some wood or something) and have that midi'd. There's a company that midi's pianos. You might even get them to throw you a pitch and mod wheel to mount somewhere.

Hmmm, now that has me thinking.....

[erikjamesmusic]

I am a concert pianist/composer. The keyboard with the best action/piano sample is the kurzeil pc2x. i've tried almost every kbrd in the market.

ps - don't get the 1x, as the keys are different.

[Jamz]

Having recently gone through a similar situation I decided on the Yamaha S90es.
It's basically an 88 weighted keyboard with the sound engine from the Motif inside.
Working out nicely. Still intend to have a real grand at some point too.

[Honch]

So it's seems to me that even the best digital piano/master kbds of today don't even get close to even the worst acoustic ones? Say, generic overall fell of ANY acoustic piano? Also, worth noting, a brand new - say - Yamaha are considerably different for the same model, played in a couple of years time. New and "played-in" action are different too.

/Honch

[Teo Macero]

KAWAI MP9500

imo the best if you're looking for the closest thing to a weighed key piano feel...

[Gladstone]

I'm waiting for the Yamaha KX8... It looks decent. Not out yet though, hopefully somewhere this month.