Hardware samplers still worth it? S-5000?

[Tibbon]

Are hardware samplers still worth anything in the studio enviorment? I have an Akai S-5000 which I got before the software samplers were the hot thing, and it sounds nice and clear, but it only supports to 48k @ 24 bit, which really is fine for most sample work, but I simply wonder if I should keep it around in some ways. I used to use it for drum samples, but now I just use cut and paste in protools for real drum sounds, and I use my Machinedrum for all the synth drum sounds (which is awesome, and beats every drum machine in the world, Real 808's and 909's included). I've just thought of getting a JV5080 or K2600 for string sounds instead of dealing with sample libraries or loading up an extra PC with Giga.

The main reasons I guess I'm keeping it, is because all the Hip-Hop guys want MPCs for some reason, and I can load most of the sounds on my S-5000 and I tell them it's basically the same thing without the pads and the crappy sequencer. Use logic for a sequencer! I don't know what's wrong with these people, I guess it's because they see Dre using them.. I guess i'm used to the 909 style programming if I am going to use the machine itself.

Also I figure when I play live (which is rare) it's one less task that I have to assign to my laptop to deal with. It also looks pretty cool with a nice big screen. These things are dirt cheap now too. I paid over $1500 for mine, and that was a good deal at the time.

[Jose Mrochek]

I have a MPC-2000, and like to keep it for the drum pads. I woudn't buy a high end keyboard though. Just a controller and sample cd's. I would much rather get a very expensive library of strings or piano, than have thousands of mediocre sounds. I do mainly melodic rock music, so yeah it's different. I do find the mpc's sequencer very cool, very easy to use.. some how staring at a computer screen while trying to be creative programming I see it as a distraction. I think that's the main reason people like these things rather than software like logic.

[Tibbon]

Yea, I have just grown accustomed to either seeing it in Logic or PT, or layed out x0x style on my machinedrum. It's just good to see things over time, so you can easily take them in and out, or shift things. I guess it's also depends what type of music you are doing. I keep the machinedrum on top of the console half the time, so when I'm recording a band I can throw stuff in really quickly for them, or give them something a little better than a click track.

I also mainly end up doing rock music at the studio, although a good many hip hop people come in.. .which never really generates too much money. For some reason they think that spending more than an hour on a song... is too much? I hate to tell them that the rock guys spend days on just the drums sometimes. I personally take at least two days to get the drums nailed just as I want them for a song, but that's because I take a whole day for sounds, and a whole day for performances at varying tempos so slightly to get different feels. Also I make sure to rip down all the mics, and detune the kit afterwards, so that the next song I have to start fresh, and never have the exact same sounds on my Personal stuff. I hate CDs that have the exact sounds throughout.

[echorec]

Originally posted by Tibbon
The main reasons I guess I'm keeping it, is because all the Hip-Hop guys want MPCs for some reason, and I can load most of the sounds on my S-5000 and I tell them it's basically the same thing without the pads and the crappy sequencer.

I thought the MPC-guys liked the "crappy sequencer". Isn´t that part of why it´s still popular?

[LTA]

Originally posted by Tibbon
The main reasons I guess I'm keeping it, is because all the Hip-Hop guys want MPCs for some reason, and I can load most of the sounds on my S-5000 and I tell them it's basically the same thing without the pads and the crappy sequencer. Use logic for a sequencer! I don't know what's wrong with these people, I guess it's because they see Dre using them.. I guess i'm used to the 909 style programming if I am going to use the machine itself.

I think they like the MPC because it is familiar AND easy to work on. Its all about the pads. Try hooking an akai MPD16 up to either your s-5000 or software samplers and see how that goes over.

[Tibbon]

Originally posted by echorec
I thought the MPC-guys liked the "crappy sequencer". Isn´t that part of why it´s still popular?

I guess so, it just doesn't make as much sense for my workflow. Also I end up doing all of my scoring in Finale, and then exporting it to a midi file to throw into PT. We used to have an MPC2000, but it just sat there most of the time, and I rarely touched the sequencer. For some reason the hip hop guys go nuts over it more than the Neumann mics or high end outboard....

But back to the topic, anyone still keeping their hardware rack samplers around? I end up doing alot of industrial stuff on my personal music.

[echorec]

Originally posted by Tibbon
I guess so, it just doesn't make as much sense for my workflow.

Same here, I had a MPC-60 but sold it.

Back on topic: I have sold my hardware samplers, only using EXS-24 these days.

[Tibbon]

Too bad Digi doesn't keep up and actually have a Hard/Soft sampler anymore. Samplecell was kinda nice for the intergration.

[Jose Mrochek]

I think it's purely a vibe thing. I'm very superstitious with some things, I feel if I had good results with a MPC I much rather stay there even though I'm sure I could work well with logic. Like you said, if DRE uses it.. it must be the only way to go type of thing. A few years ago when I used to work at a high end studio, some singers would not sing without vanilla scent candles, or they needed flowers, or eat tomatoes I found it ammusing and a bit of a "diva" syndrome. Now I totally understand. I started my own type of little stupid rituals now that I'm doing my album .Like for instance, I won't take my guitar home. It needs to stay in the studio for as long as I'm recording. Just weird stuff. I sold my keyboard that sounded quiet nice, just because the thing never inspired me to write. I used a 200$ guitar instead of my 1,500$ to record because I used the cheap one to write most of the songs. And the list goes on, I find the MPC thing to work that way to. Maybe i'm just going nuts after 4 months in the studio, hahaha who knows

[Pip]

Agreed - BUT now my scsi drive is broken I'm screwed...surely some software can translate akai format discs into a pc (my pc revfuses to recognise the disc) so I can load into akai.sys????
PLEASE help - I'm deperate to use my orc cd's again.
Anyway I still love hardware.

[Tibbon]

Jose- I guess I can see that. My main rule in the studio for my personal stuff is to break every rule that I can in an attempt that I might actually be able to do something original (which is a rare chance but i'm working on it). Everyone does play favorites though. I normally play a 68' tele in the studio, but the other day I grabbed a single cut PRS off the wall, which I never play, and actually did the whole track with it. I never play PRSs, but it worked. For one song I did, i just kept a single stereo pair of AKG 3000cb's in place, and just kept moving to different amps and instruments and overdubbed them in a row. Was a slightly weird sound, but it was kinda like a 'live' recording, but it was all overdubbed and controllable afterwards to a degree. I think the only other mic I used was a D112 on a kick drum. Also lead toward an interesting panning situation, since many of the amps were on the right, and the drums were slightly to the left. It worked well though

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by LTA
I think they like the MPC because it is familiar AND easy to work on. Its all about the pads. Try hooking an akai MPD16 up to either your s-5000 or software samplers and see how that goes over.

Its not the pads, its how the MPC locks the beats.

The "feel" of the MPC-60 and the MPC3000 is legendary.

Same goes for the Emu SP1200.

Also the older samplers have a more grimier sound and the newer one's are too clean(case in point why so many rap producers hate the MPC4000).

[remo]

Originally posted by Pip
Agreed - BUT now my scsi drive is broken I'm screwed...surely some software can translate akai format discs into a pc (my pc revfuses to recognise the disc) so I can load into akai.sys????
PLEASE help - I'm deperate to use my orc cd's again.
Anyway I still love hardware.

try these progrms:

CDXTRACT

or

CHICKENSYS TRANSLATOR

I regularly use CDXtract to convert my AKAI CD's to EXS24 format. Its very easy to use and does the job well.

[Tibbon]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Its not the pads, its how the MPC locks the beats.

The "feel" of the MPC-60 and the MPC3000 is legendary.

Same goes for the Emu SP1200.

Also the older samplers have a more grimier sound and the newer one's are too clean(case in point why so many rap producers hate the MPC4000).

I guess some people hate chopping the beats, and then sliding stuff in PT. I suppose it's all workflow.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Tibbon
I guess some people hate chopping the beats, and then sliding stuff in PT. I suppose it's all workflow.

Yeah but the timing isn't the same.

The timing in Logic feels totally different in PT.

Its one reason so many people produce in Logic.

Different resolutions on each.

Also when dumping midi tracks to PT, never locks the same.

[Tibbon]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Yeah but the timing isn't the same.

The timing in Logic feels totally different in PT.

Its one reason so many people produce in Logic.

Different resolutions on each.

Also when dumping midi tracks to PT, never locks the same.

Ahh, see the way I work I normally output the drums from individual outputs into protools as audio, and then cut them into regions, either manuall, or using Beat Dectetive, and then put them in either Grid or Slip mode and mess with them from there.

I do see how some drum machines have a certain 'feel'. My machinedrum does some funny things at times, which are very cool.

[remo]

I've "read" ppl like the standalone mpc's because the timing and quantise on them is super tight. Also, due to the sound of the DAC's in the units (sounds better).

I can see having an outboard sampler would add a certain "flavour" (whether its a good, bad or necessary flavour is arbitrary) to the mix rather than having all the samples being played back through the DAC's on your DAW interface but... but ...

the ease, total recall, HUGE capacity for samples etc of a software sampler are more of a drawcard for me...

but I still think clients like them either because they read Dre uses them or so they can tell their friends they used one.

(just midi it up to the EXS24 and see if they can tell the difference )

[sparker]

Hi - (almost) everyone loves the MPC's because of the swing quantise. Although you should be able to get similar results in your computer's sequencer, a lot of people say they sound better...

As for your S5000 - it may not even be worth selling it? The used price for these now is pretty low..

If you do decide to get something else, I'd avoid the Kurzweil as although the sounds were good when it came out (as the 2500..) that was a long time ago and they are a bitch to edit..

Haven't tried the 5080, but I would look at something like the Eastwest Orchestra, either Gold or Platinum.. Although you may need to upgrade your computer to run Plat.. They run standalone too.

Cheers

Steve

[ttauri]

Originally posted by sparker
(almost) everyone loves the MPC's because of the swing quantise.

I hafta say: I'm really over MPC swings. I was going through my records to put some in storage, and was struck by how many had that MPC swing quantize written all over them. Started sounding really boring after I noticed it.

The quantizing I really loved was StudioVision--ultra-flexible.

Peece,
T. Tauri

[ttauri]

Originally posted by remo
but ...

the ease, total recall, HUGE capacity for samples etc of a software sampler are more of a drawcard for me...

Yeah. But then... My main sampler had been an EPS-16+. Loved it, but the SCSI implementation for saving to hard drive was a PITA, so I never used it, and it's not easy to scrounge up double-density diskettes these days.

Peece,
T. Tauri

[Dor]

Originally Posted by ttauri

I hafta say: I'm really over MPC swings. I was going through my records to put some in storage, and was struck by how many had that MPC swing quantize written all over them. Started sounding really boring after I noticed it.

The quantizing I really loved was StudioVision--ultra-flexible.

Peece,
T. Tauri

Vision was the shit. I remember how amped i was when the sent the upgrade disks via snail mail & added audio!! Very intuitive interface & workflow. Damn Gibson!!!