no go on 57 w/ GTR

[PaRaNoId]

After the ump-teenth time of trying it in the ump-teenth position, i have decieded the venerable SM-57 is no good for electric guitar at my studio. Has anyone else had this happen in such a predictable pattern? This is like a rock snare consistently sounding bad through a 1176, or a bass guitar/drum sounding shiteey through an LA-2a...Just tell me I'm nuts and I'll be okay...

[~ufo~]

I see no harm in you not taking the classic combinations of old for granted.

experiment and find out what works for you.

I have no LA2A or 1176 and I still make good recordings and mixes....

I do have 57s but yeah, they don't always work well on amps.... they can help with too overdriven sounds.... more a cure than a sollution perhaps.

[Mike Tholen]

I have found that using a Beyer 201 or a 421 on former default applications for the 57, I can get more useable tones for what used to be tried and true for the 57.
did that make sense?

[lasso]

A 57 alone never does it for me.

The 57 / 421 combination however, where the 421 picks up the side of the cone, is the thing.

Lasso.

[norman_nomad]

What kind of amp, cab, gtr? I've had quite a bit of luck with the 57.

My generic tip: turn down the gain, turn up the volume.

Recently I've been using a 57 in conjunction with a 121 as my go to.

[doorknocker]

Originally posted by Mike Tholen
I have found that using a Beyer 201 or a 421 on former default applications for the 57, I can get more useable tones for what used to be tried and true for the 57.did that make sense?

It really makes sense! Although (especially on 'rock' guitar) a 57 is often hard to beat, I never got the sound I wanted with the 57 on a Fender Blues Junior amp. A 421 or a 57/421 combo works great though. Ditto the Beyer M201 as a smoother alternative to the 57 for distorted sounds. The 201 is especially great for snare if you want less hi-hat spill and a fatter sound. (sometimes, depending on the snare/drummer it reminds me a bit of the early Van Halen snare sound) I also got good results with the 201 on nylon string guitar.
Now I need some Beyer ribbons!

Andi

[Ahellam]

I like a 57 on loud mesa boogie dual rectifier tracks, on quiet amps I much prefer a large cap condenser.

[kwhatx]

I generally prefer a 421 to a 57 on guitar cabs. Like Mike said, I feel I get more useable tones. Other favs are the MD1A and the U195 (the fat mode can be a big help). I also find the SM58 more workable than a SM57 on amps/cabs.

[Jim Williams]

I figured that one out back in the '80's, 57's sound small. Even the guy that popularized the 57 on the marshall cab, Ed Van Halen uses large diameter condensors now. I like modified 414's back about 2' and 10 degrees off axis. This sounds like the amp. If the amp sucks, it's not MY fault!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[dhughes]

Said it before and I'll say it again, I'll take an e609 silver in every application over the 57 - especially guitar. Can't use the 57 on guitars at all anymore. Find it completely useless.

[TonyBelmont]

I like an SM7, or SM57/ MD421 combo... or a Royer R121.

[transfiguration]

Originally posted by dhughes
Said it before and I'll say it again, I'll take an e609 silver in every application over the 57 - especially guitar. Can't use the 57 on guitars at all anymore. Find it completely useless.

Maybe not every application for me, but it is a damn fine mic for $100.

trans

[not_so_new]

Originally posted by PaRaNoId
After the ump-teenth time of trying it in the ump-teenth position, i have decieded the venerable SM-57 is no good for electric guitar at my studio. Has anyone else had this happen in such a predictable pattern? This is like a rock snare consistently sounding bad through a 1176, or a bass guitar/drum sounding shiteey through an LA-2a...Just tell me I'm nuts and I'll be okay...

Huuummmm way too many variables here I think. I know it has been said over and over but guitar tone starts in the room with the player and the amp. Good player with a decent rig will give you good results BUT only if they are willing to listen to advise on making their tracks sound good (and only if your advice gets there in the end).

That said many people with more Grammy winning albums than I (and I would assume you as well) have used, still use and love a good old 57 on a gtr cab. Does this mean that we have to follow convention and stick with the old school way of doing things. Hell no, but it does mean that they might know something that we don't?? Could be huh??

Either way I get good results from a 57 but placement is key and I will only get good results with a good signal chain, i.e. good guitar player, good rig etc. I can assume you have covered all of this but...

It is very important that the whole signal chain on the recording side is right. You can distort a 57 with a gtr cab (yeah it will take a whole lot of work but it can be done). Maybe the amp or amps were just too loud. On the same line, maybe the pre was just too hot and you are distorting the out??

Maybe the tone of that amp was wrong to begin with?? Fruitloop guitar players with their guitars tuned to low Z always seem to use way too much distortion. Distortion = mud and with a 7 string tuned to drop whatever mud is the enemy. A cool sound in the room does not always translate to a cool sound in the mix. I know I am a friutloop guitar player.

Maybe the tone does not sound right soloed but in the mix it rocks (you did not say what it is you don't like about it actually)??

Maybe the ump-teenth position +1 is the right place for the mic?? Maybe back it off a foot or two, maybe bring it closer a few inches, maybe to the left or right and back, maybe.. you get the point.

In the end you might just be right, a 57 might not be to your tastes. Good for you that you realize this, many people don't' and just follow the crowd.

P.S. sometimes in the right context I really like a rock snare through an 1176, goes to show tastes differ. In this bizz there is very little that falls into "a predictable pattern"

Rock on.

[PaRaNoId]

Yeah, lately it seems as though the LDC's have been sounding better. I agree that placement is key with any micing situation, I just found it weird that the 57 always seems to sound the worst when compared to other setups. Other mics that sound "better" in these cases- 421 like many of you said, sounds good but sometimes has a weird boxy edge to it. I also have great distortion results from using a Studio Projects B3 (in fig-8) right up on the cone and slightly off center. I really want one of those e609s though....

[dhughes]

$99. Come on, you can afford that. Come on....

[genericperson]

the *best* guitar mic cab now is the AES R84, IMHO. for some reason it "likes" the distortion sound and cradles it right into your recording chain for pure sonic glory.

[PaRaNoId]

Originally posted by dhughes
$99. Come on, you can afford that. Come on....

People like you are the last thing i need in my life... peer pressure! Darnit, now i have no excuse! Seriously though, U are right....I have also heard they sound good on toms and horns...GC here i come!

[Fleaman]

Try a Senn 409.

Seems to win as a primary G. amp mic for me over the 57 most of the time.

Fleaman

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by Fleaman
Try a Senn 409.

Seems to win as a primary G. amp mic for me over the 57 most of the time.

Fleaman

Did you mean the Sennheiser 609? If so, I agree...the 57 doesn't hold a candle to it on electric guitar...ever (IMHO).

[Rusty Cage]

I'd love to give a 409 a shot myself... if I could find one. Been scouring eBay for weeks.

On the original subject... it really depends on the tone. My last recording had two Les Paul-toting players running through cranked Marshall JMPs. A 57 on each did the job nicely. If it was Fender or Vox or Boogie I/II... different story perhaps...

[dhughes]

Originally posted by PaRaNoId
People like you are the last thing i need in my life... peer pressure! Darnit, now i have no excuse! Seriously though, U are right....I have also heard they sound good on toms and horns...GC here i come!

Snare too.

And hey, I'm the last thing I need in my life also.

[Fleaman]

Originally posted by NathanEldred
Did you mean the Sennheiser 609? If so, I agree...the 57 doesn't hold a candle to it on electric guitar...ever (IMHO).

No, the 409. True, they are no longer avail. new and it seems their value has skyrocketed on ebay, but luckily for me I had bought 7 of them used for a bargain price about 10 years ago.
I could quadruple my purchase price if I threw them on ebay now.

Not going to happen anytime soon.

Never used a 609 but I have heard that while similar, they do sound different than a 409.

I've had good results with 409's on toms, snares and even vocals a few times.

I've lent one of my 409's to a good friend who has a very nice studio and is an amazing guitarist....he refuses to return it! It's been 4 years now! Well, I guess I do have a few to spare...

Fleaman

[borut]

Sehnn 609 combined with beyer 201 or akg 224.
Anybody else using the akg?

[PaRaNoId]

Anyways, I ended up using the 57 today for.....distorted guitar! The rig that liked it- American strat w/ maple fretboard into a Fender Deville Tube Amp...miced it at the edge of the cone, kind of pointing at the center of the cone. Produced a very standard, phat rock tone for rythym tracks. Best of all the client even said it sounded...."perfect". F$%K this thread, and whatever dumb-asss started it...he he he

[Han]

I've never liked the 57 on guitar amps, the 421 for a hot sound, the 441 for more bottom and less hot, the Beyer M88 for a very tight sound, the M69 for a little less bottom.

The SP B1 or B3 can do a wonderful job as well.

All better that the 57.

Try the Beyer mics!

[~ufo~]

Yeah Han,

I'm still meaning to buy a M88

I went for a M99 in stead because and RE20 didn't fit the budget.
I've been happy w/ the M99 so far, I've recently bought a ß91 but that sure as hell won't replace the M99, I think it sounds godawful on its own on kick. It does work ok as a second mic in conjunction w/ the M99 though.

I use the M99 quite a bit on the bottom speakers of my Mesa 4x12 halfback cab. not too shabby at all.

[Andy Sneap]

feel free to send me all your 57's, always come back to it

[Jim Williams]

While were discussing 57's, does anyone notice the large difference in sound from the original made in USA Unidyne III's compared to the recent crop of Mexican 57's???

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Andy Sneap]

yeah theres a difference, but I've got to like my mexican friends. Hard to find a unidyne III that isn't battered, as soon as that grill gets a drum stick it changes the sound

[Ross]

Does anybody else think that the new 57's don't sound as good as say.....some made 10yrs ago? We just bought 3 within the last 6 months or so and I don't think I've used a track on GTR's recorded with any of them. I would compare with the old one's, but they have vanished