Which upgrade will provide the biggest sound quality improvement?

[laughton]

Ok, so it has come time to make an upgrade to my set up and basically have narrowed it down to getting better ADC or better pre-amps. My ADC is the digi002, and the best pre-amps I have to work with are the TOFT ATB pres.

So the question is. If I am going to put down $3000 on new gear, is it better spent on new pres (a lunchbox with (2)512c and (2) *insert other 500 pre*) or a new ADC set up (most likely a Lynx aurora 16)???

I plan on doing both of these things in the future, but there will be a good 3-4 month gap between each upgrade where I will have nice equipment mixed with old stuff. I am just wondering which new gear would serve me better in that gap between upgrades.

I have mics covered for now with TLM 103(2), SM57(5), MD421(1), D112(1), NT1A(2) and NT5(2).

[Empire Prod]

By far the biggest gear upgrade in a signal path is the microphone. The other components don't make nearly the impact that the mic does. That being said, you are only as strong as your weakest link.

[jamsmith]

Your best upgrade is the acoustics of the room. If you have the greatest equipment and your room sucks, you mixes will suffer. If you have modest equipment and your room sings. You can walk away with a great mix. No matter what a few people who have parted with huge sums of money say, with a Shure mic, an old ADAT and a Mackie board (or worse!), you CAN make a great sounding recording. Acoustics is the single most important aspect of recording.

[tINY]

Acoustic of the room and mics... (you could stand a flatish dynamic, a less bright SDC pair, a couple more options in LDC....).

After that, having several pres to choose from can be nice for featured instruments - if you like that "mojo" thing and aren't looking for clean and accurate. Safe Sound makes a nice pre-amp if you like to control the dynamics on the way in.

Unless your converters are older than about 1995, I wouldn't worry about them unless they are a functional problem.

Judging by the 002 - I'm guessing you walk the dark path of protools....




-tINY

[laughton]

Room treatment isn't an option at this point, because I am between having a dedicated place to record and moving to a different city in 5 months. I don't have the money or desire to rent out a space and get it all nice sounding if I am going to be moving away soon enough.

I have been checking out Heil mics to get some better dynamics in my mic closet. And eventually I will put up some money for a nice tube condenser (M147 maybe?).

But for NOW. The two options are upgrading conversion or upgrading mic preamps. Given those two options and what they are replacing; what upgrade will improve sound the most?

[heisleyamor]

use cheap/temporary ways of treating your room. It really does affect the sound a LOT. Try to throw large items against your walls and stuff your corners with something thick. It will really change the sound of your mixes.

[sleeps]

Originally Posted by laughton

But for NOW. The two options are upgrading conversion or upgrading mic preamps. Given those two options and what they are replacing; what upgrade will improve sound the most?

In my eyes, preamps / converters are the fun, eye candy part of "improving" your signal. Yes, some preamps are better than other, some a lot better, same with conversion. However, room treatment (I know you said you are planning on moving!), mics, and the source will make a bigger difference than your pres and converters. Some people will say otherwise, I simply think they are wrong

You can buy acoustical treatment without it being permanent. And, when you move into your next place, you can bring them with you and use them ... just as you could a preamp. Gobos and bass traps will work wonders. Even a portable hardwood floor helps.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by sleeps

You can buy acoustical treatment without it being permanent. And, when you move into your next place, you can bring them with you and use them ... just as you could a preamp.

Exactly. If you don't want to hang stuff permanently, just put the panels on the floor leaning against the walls and into the corners, etc. This thread title is Which upgrade will provide the biggest sound quality improvement? and acoustic treatment is the correct answer.

--Ethan

[lpkyer]

You simply don't want hi-fi gear that will pickup your room a lot better...if your room sucks !

[johndykstra]

I understand waiting on treatment, although it would give you the most benefit. If you gotta spend money (tax refund?), why not upgrade both and get the API A2D?

[jamsmith]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

This thread title is Which upgrade will provide the biggest sound quality improvement? and acoustic treatment is the correct answer.

--Ethan

Do I win a prize?!?!?

[gainstages]

i will chime in in favor of acoustic treatment also. Even if you just spend a small portion of your budget - spend a few hundred dollars and get some panels that you can move with you into your new place when you are ready. Then, spend the remaining bulk of the money on your microphone collection.

Preamps and converters are great options also, but i'd first make sure room acoustics and your microphone collection are in good shape.

[buzzjoe]

Originally Posted by tINY

Acoustic of the room and mics... (you could stand a flatish dynamic, a less bright SDC pair, a couple more options in LDC....).

Unless your converters are older than about 1995, I wouldn't worry about them unless they are a functional problem.

Judging by the 002 - I'm guessing you walk the dark path of protools....

Converters can make a BIG difference. A few years ago switched from a Tascam788 to a RME Fireface and the difference is night and day.

But I am shure the 002 is much better than the 788 too. I agree about the mics and the room.

[tINY]

Did you use the internal mic pre-amps?

That 788 is a pretty extreme value with the software, HDD, and all for $1k




-tINY

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by jamsmith

Do I win a prize?!?!?

Yes. <pats head>

[Aurora T.]

Roomtreatment.

Just build 8 Basstraps for 250$ .....

















and become a believer.

[doncaparker]

Since this is an unabashed pile-on re: not answering the question asked, but rather the question we all thing the original poster should have asked, I'll jump on, too. <G>

Acoustic treatment can be cheaper and way more portable than you think. I bought a dozen pre-made zippered insulation bags, stuffed them with the rigid fiberglass insulation we all use, and hung them on the wall for a total of less than $650. If I ever want to move them, it is as easy as taking a picture off the wall. You just leave nail holes. Everybody leaves nail holes when they move out, right? If you don't even want to leave nail holes, just lean the absorbers against the walls and set them on top of desks, dressers, chairs, etc.

[robmix]

Get the pre's. The 002 convertors should be fine for now.

Everyone's jumping all over him about acoustics without knowing what his current room even sounds like. Great recordings have been made in shitty rooms since the beginning of recorded music but for all we know his room sounds great.

[vernier]

I'd get a tape recorder.

[Perelandra05]

If you don't want to invest in better room treatment and are going to stick with protools than my advice would be to get your OO2 modded with the tweak head mod by Black Lion Audio.

Digidesign Digi 002 mod

It does wonders to an otherwise not so great piece of gear.

You may also want to consider upgrading to a better D-A Converter. Benchmark, Lavry, Apogee, Mytek, the list goes on for choices in this department. Just do a search.

I would still go with building your own Bass Traps, Absorbers, and Diffusers. You can easily transport them to your new pad.

God speed!

[kittyboy]

I noticed a huge difference in sound quality when I left the pres/converters/clock of the 002 behind and got a Metric Halo 2882. Whole 'nother world.

[matt thomas]

assuming you're not going 4 treatment then the API a2d that someone above recommended would be an excellent option. You get two great pres, plus two channels of good A-D.

narco

[kittyboy]

How many tracks do you need to be able to record simultaneously?

[fova]

In my opinion room acoustic has a biggest influence on the quality of sound. Then choosing of the right microphone, next preamp and finally influence of sound card or converter is quite minor.

[Fruition2k]

Originally Posted by laughton

Ok, so it has come time to make an upgrade to my set up and basically have narrowed it down to getting better ADC or better pre-amps. My ADC is the digi002, and the best pre-amps I have to work with are the TOFT ATB pres.

So the question is. If I am going to put down $3000 on new gear, is it better spent on new pres (a lunchbox with (2)512c and (2) *insert other 500 pre*) or a new ADC set up (most likely a Lynx aurora 16)???

I plan on doing both of these things in the future, but there will be a good 3-4 month gap between each upgrade where I will have nice equipment mixed with old stuff. I am just wondering which new gear would serve me better in that gap between upgrades.

I have mics covered for now with TLM 103(2), SM57(5), MD421(1), D112(1), NT1A(2) and NT5(2).

After you get room acoustics delt with, the single best improvement is in mic pres.
You can go from SM58's all the way up to a Neumann M269 but the common point is going to be the mic pre. Its the most important gain stage, I went in 1985 from Audio Technica to Fostex-Yamaha-Daking in the past to present day REDD 47 and Quad Eight. From a Realistic Highball 58 copy to a M269. (This is all personal home studio experience.)The BIGGEST impact was mic pres...60% pre - 38% mic, with the other 2% cables.

I've worked in many major studios as well, and they all had the assortment of U87s, 414's, an occasional U47, but the sonically its was the console that gave the biggest imprint. In other words most high end studios are going to have the best mics collection, but if theres a Trident A range, API, or 80 series Neve there the mics may not have the biggest sonic signature. Mics are truly a source dependant piece of gear, if Bono is using a Beta58 in the studio, or Michael Jackson works well with an SM7.... ....I defer to my first paragraph. For now thats just from my observation and experience..

[tINY]

Yeah - I've noticed that with stands too.

Since every mic in your closet goes on one of about 6 stands, you need to get the best you can afford. Big improvement between an On-Stage stand and a good Bogen.




-tINY

[desotoslo]

wow, sorry to bump this old thread, tINY, but is that bus "Further"?

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by Empire Prod

By far the biggest gear upgrade in a signal path is the microphone. The other components don't make nearly the impact that the mic does. That being said, you are only as strong as your weakest link.

+100.

I'd spend the money on mics.

Treatment is good too. I definitely would NOT go with either option suggested by the OP.

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by Empire Prod

By far the biggest gear upgrade in a signal path is the microphone. The other components don't make nearly the impact that the mic does. That being said, you are only as strong as your weakest link.

The exception being that a dynamic mic can be made to go from average to great with a great preamp. For condensers however I would agree that the actual mic is key

matt