Mics for ac gtr and perc?

[esteso]

Hi all, thought I'd throw this up here. Even though I haven't been around for a while I know many of you.

I just offed my U87ai and two AKG 414s. I just couldn't stand them any more. Especially for the price. The first 414 cost something like $1300.!! Yes I know. I was ripped.

Anyway, I'm starting to seriously look around at replacing these mics. I'd like one decent vocal mic and a couple of utility mics, mostly for acoustic gtr, Flamenco gtr, Oud, Cello, Accordian, Fiddle etc. also lots of hand percussion.... Djembe, Doumbek, Cajon, Frame Drums etc.

The U87 just did not cut it for me. I sold it as soon as I heard two vocalists singing through a Kiwi, Manley, Trakker. Just killed the Neumann! This was the last straw in an unhappy relationship and I sold it on the spot.

Now the Kiwi is tempting for Vocals but I'm not going to pull the trigger until I look at a few more choices like the U95 and I'm not sure what else. (besides I can probably just borrow the Kiwi and get something else that he can borrow)

I'm left with an AT 4033, an AKG 460b, A GT AM66(?) 2- KM 184s, 2- MD421s, 2- SM57s

I've pretty much decided that a U195 is going to fit in my studio nicely. Don't know for sure but I'm giving it a look for sure.

So assuming $2000 for the Kiwi, $1000 for the U195 that leaves $3000 for some nice acoustic instrument mics. I guess the Kiwi works pretty well on gtr too but I was thinking more SD mic with more accuracy than the 184 but not as clinical as the 460b.

Thoughts?

Cheers
esteso

[Mike Tholen]

for acoustic instruments I have a few options depending of course on the ROOM first and foremost, song's arrangement, musical genre, recording medium, and a shitload of other variables...but most of the time I either use Beyer 160's or 260's (ribbon) or my beloved KM254's (tube).
They both shine in certain situations, I often will switch out mics while getting sounds depending...
there is no definate answer but these mics pretty much cover it all for me and acoustic instruments.

[sdelsolray]

Originally posted by esteso
Hi all, thought I'd throw this up here. Even though I haven't been around for a while I know many of you.

I just offed my U87ai and two AKG 414s. I just couldn't stand them any more. Especially for the price. The first 414 cost something like $1300.!! Yes I know. I was ripped.

Anyway, I'm starting to seriously look around at replacing these mics. I'd like one decent vocal mic and a couple of utility mics, mostly for acoustic gtr, Flamenco gtr, Oud, Cello, Accordian, Fiddle etc. also lots of hand percussion.... Djembe, Doumbek, Cajon, Frame Drums etc.

The U87 just did not cut it for me. I sold it as soon as I heard two vocalists singing through a Kiwi, Manley, Trakker. Just killed the Neumann! This was the last straw in an unhappy relationship and I sold it on the spot.

Now the Kiwi is tempting for Vocals but I'm not going to pull the trigger until I look at a few more choices like the U95 and I'm not sure what else. (besides I can probably just borrow the Kiwi and get something else that he can borrow)

I'm left with an AT 4033, an AKG 460b, A GT AM66(?) 2- KM 184s, 2- MD421s, 2- SM57s

I've pretty much decided that a U195 is going to fit in my studio nicely. Don't know for sure but I'm giving it a look for sure.

So assuming $2000 for the Kiwi, $1000 for the U195 that leaves $3000 for some nice acoustic instrument mics. I guess the Kiwi works pretty well on gtr too but I was thinking more SD mic with more accuracy than the 184 but not as clinical as the 460b.

Thoughts?

Cheers
esteso

For the SDs, take a serious look at Schoeps, the CMC6 body with either the MK4 or MK41 capsules.

[Cornvalley]

If you hadn't mention percussion or 'utility' kind of mic I would not have suggested this....Joesephson E22. Great on that flamenco as well. Lotta different tones, providing proper placement, with this one.

[Brad Lunde]

Originally posted by esteso
<SNIP>

So assuming $2000 for the Kiwi, $1000 for the U195 that leaves $3000 for some nice acoustic instrument mics. <SNIP>
Thoughts?

Cheers
esteso

Some of the strongest positive responses I get are to Brauners on acoustic stringed instruments. People get very excited over this specific mic "discovery", especially the VM1 but also the Valvet and the Phantom. They harder and more complex the acoustic instrument, the more I hear from engineers that this is one of their newer solutions. But these are responses from pros working in great rooms.

With acoustics, the room is probably 90% of the battle to "get right". I would say its where the attention/money should go first, then to mics.
Brad

[tee]

I'd add the Earthworks QTC-1 omni's to your demo list before you pull the trigger ........ they're great for hand drums, percussion and anything with alot of fast transients.

Pretty good for acoustic guitar in the right room too. Very useful mics.

I agree with Brad about the Valvet, which is what I have experience with, that it sounds really nice on some ac guitars.

Good luck

[RaGe]

T.H.E. Audio KR2C !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Incredible mics, check them out. They are my fav. for ac.gtr and percussion ambiance micing.

[esteso]

thanks for the responses. Yep, room first, then......? Schoeps perhaps, don't know. What's a KM254? Never heard a Josephson but when I said utility i really just meant a lot of different acoustic stringed instruments mostly. I pretty much have hand percussion covered.

Valvet sounds interesting but isn't it a trifle expensive? I mean, I have some money but can't dump it into one mic at this point. I'll have to clarify my thinking about all this.

Problem with acoustic treatment is I'm renting the space and so don't want to sink a fortune into it. Maybe some moveable traps and diffusers but that's all I can see myself doing in this space . Right now I just baffle with 3/8ths plywood covered in Auralex.

Cheers
esteso

[Jim Williams]

If you decide to dump the 460B, give me a call.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
818-780-1222

[De chromium cob]

Originally posted by esteso
but I was thinking more SD mic with more accuracy than the 184 but not as clinical as the 460b.

Thoughts?

Cheers
esteso

Based on this I'd recommend trying a KM-84. Good luck.

[brownmouse]

gefell m-295!!! in my little experience with them they are stellar (i have one coming from mercenary to further check it out...and i'm sure it will stay with me...) from what i've heard i would easily go with the 295 over the km84/184. ymmv.
good luck,
joshua

[Beauarts]

Originally posted by Mike Tholen
for acoustic instruments I have a few options depending of course on the ROOM first and foremost, song's arrangement, musical genre, recording medium, and a shitload of other variables...but most of the time I either use Beyer 160's or 260's (ribbon) or my beloved KM254's (tube).
They both shine in certain situations, I often will switch out mics while getting sounds depending...
there is no definate answer but these mics pretty much cover it all for me and acoustic instruments.

Like Mike, I have both the Beyer 160 and Neumann KM54s, a vintage tube small diaphram mic. I have to agree they work extremely well on a number of acoustic instruments. The nice thing about the m160s is they're hypercardiod, rare for a ribbon, and a little hotter than the average ribbon mic so you're not always on the max level on your preamp. They naturally roll off a little high so I use them on fiddle and percussion. The KM54s are great on piano, fabulous on accordian and cymbalim. Another possibility is the Neumann KM84 or km140. They still make the km140 and it's a little bit of a sleeper so you can occassionally find a pair used for under $1000.

[mardyk]

For acoustics and drums I'm having great luck with a matched pair of Josephson c-42. Less than a grand at Mercenary.

[genericperson]

a pair of earthworks qtc-1's is very nice on acoustic guitars.

also, check out the aea r84. you could get a pair and do blumlein. you get bang for your buck because they record acoustic guitars and electric guitar amp cabinets very very well.

[djui5]

EW's are awesome.....

KM-84's would work...

AT 4051's would work nicely...

[esteso]

Thanks all, a lot of choices as always. Only limited by money and time, actually. Who wants to spend all of your spare time testing mics to find the very best one for a given situation? I'd rather get 95% of the way there with a mic that's pretty damn good and then actually use it.

That said, I'm going to look at the KM84s (if I can find one) the QTC1, the AEA ribbon, the AKG 414 XLS (good word on the street- even though I grew to hate my TL11s) and the U195.

That should keep me off the streets for a while.

Reagards
esteso

[Ollie]

I have used and liked the following tube mics: the Neumann KM64's, KM264's, KM54's, KM254's, KM84 Schoeps M221B, AKG C60, C12A/B, Korby convetible, Neumann Geffell M582's.

For newer FET stuff, I think Geffell makes a great product. I have used there m300 and it sounds very nice. I believe someone mentioned the m-295: I believe that is a nickel capsule which sounds great also.

Try a few things until you find what you like to work with.

The KM64'S KM264's are the tube version of the KM84. They are much more natural and warm sounding than a KM84.

[John Mayes]

some may laugh at this but the groove tubes GT-44 mic is really well suited for this kinda thing. Very musical rich sound. I recently was with a friend tracking some percussion and guitars and the mics we tried were the KM184, GT-44, TLM-103, SP C4's, and BLUE bluebird. Ran into a distressor and then a brent averill 1272. The favorites were the GT-44, the BLUE then the C4's in that order. The KM184's came across too harsh, and the 103's just kinda were boring. The Gt-44's were crisp, full, and musical. they would easily fall into budget too...