Andy Wallace's Huge but TIGHT Bass Mixing

[Renie]

Great post Thrill

[doorknocker]

Excellent post, Thrill!

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
I think the fact that he has done lots of styles of music and the fact that he is a great producer helps him in getting his vision across.

This is essential, I think. Remember that someone like Eddie Kramer started out doing classical recordings and translated this knowledge to heavy rock.
IMO, it's important to listen to all kinds of music, even stuff you might not care for initially. I see it as part of the job to learn how 'other' styles are put together musically and technically. As an example, you might learn about better balance by listen to a string quartet.

Thrill, could you give some examples of the 'early' rap mixes you mentioned?
Does does anybody have suggestions of Andy Wallace produced and/or mixed stuff that is lesser known? Jazz(?), world(?), 'softer' rock?

Andi

[drew]

http://ubl.artistdirect.com/music/ar...506927,00.html


this just scratches the surface.

[robdarling]

Was that 40hz crank pre or post compressor? Two very different results. If you're going to see something, try and see the whole picture.

Andy Wallace makes excellent musical decisions, and that is his real secret weapon. Andy engineers music, not sound.

[Caldo71]

If you do the same music all the time its gets old and after awhile the industry will move on to the next hotshot

Speaking of, does anybody know if Brendan O'Brien is still doing his thing for the "Big Leagues"? He was such the golden child during the whole grunge thing, but I've kinda lost track of if he's still doing major label stuff. Probably just because I'm not reading enough album jackets, but the above quote made me think of that.

Killer epic drum sounds that guy had. Snare of doom.

[Ahellam]

Brendan O'Brien had alot to do with the new incubus record.

[Ruphus]

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...9769post189769

See 6th post on the page.

[Dave Pensado]

Guys, this is my first post, and probably forever will be my BEST in some peoples eyes. Andy is a great friend of mine. We both work a lot at the same studio, and both mix records for a living. I EMAILED HIM THE LINK TO THIS THREAD. I will let you know his response in a couple of days. GREAT THREAD! Oh, and BTW, he is truly the coolest and most talented person in our profession, bar none. I have the utmost respect for him and his work, a great role model and someone to emulate. Jules, see ya Wednesday!

[RoundBadge]

[David Herbert]

Dave Pensado with the word moderator next to his name? Cool.
Welcome to Gearslutz! David

[Drumsound]

OK, we've got Dave Pensado, and he's trying to get Andy Wallace to come to the party too.

Woo-Hoo this is gonna be fun.

[Jam]

In such classy company I may have to keep my mouth shut and just listen and that's a reason for celebration in it's own right !!

Jam

[Bang]

as if Dave Pensoado as a guest moderator wasn't good enough... now I might even get to find out how Andy produces his huge ass low end..... I'm in mixer heaven. Great to have you here Dave.
Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

[shikawkee]

I'm curious about the 40Hrz boost in that not everyone has the critical monitoring to hear it. A lot of old-school guys cut sometimes up to 70Hrz.

[bassmac]

With a bass peak at 40hz, I'd imagine the kick would have to be well above it. I can't see a 60hz kick, and a 40hz bass getting along to well. I usually figure it's one or the other - but I'm all ears...

[Bang]

well, after toying around with the 40Hz thing I came up with a few things:

when you boost 40Hz you're also boosting a bit of 50 and basically this gives the bass a lot of sublows ummph... then you compress the hell out of it ( I did it with a dbx 160 which is as close to the SSL channel comp that Andy uses as I'm going to get) and then this makes that sublow HUUUUM. I hear this on some AW stuff (but his is obviously TIGHTER). Now kicks love 80Hz so I use a post compressor eq on the bass now and dip 80Hz and then your kick comes back into play. Then I eq'd the "real" low end of the bass at about 120Hz to 150Hz. So this gives you a bass that lies BOTH below AND above the kick but leaves a little hole for it. You could also just trigger gate the bass with the kick. Now Andy could have just done that 40Hz thing on that one record and could do something totally diferent which I'd love to find out.

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Bang
well, after toying around with the 40Hz thing I came up with a few things:

when you boost 40Hz you're also boosting a bit of 50 and basically this gives the bass a lot of sublows ummph... then you compress the hell out of it ( I did it with a dbx 160 which is as close to the SSL channel comp that Andy uses as I'm going to get) and then this makes that sublow HUUUUM. I hear this on some AW stuff (but his is obviously TIGHTER). Now kicks love 80Hz so I use a post compressor eq on the bass now and dip 80Hz and then your kick comes back into play. Then I eq'd the "real" low end of the bass at about 120Hz to 150Hz. So this gives you a bass that lies BOTH below AND above the kick but leaves a little hole for it. You could also just trigger gate the bass with the kick. Now Andy could have just done that 40Hz thing on that one record and could do something totally diferent which I'd love to find out.

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

It works the best with GML 8200 with a very narrow Q.

Its actually one of the sounds where it excels very well.

Most people know it as a great transparent EQ, but its killer on bass and kicks.

[faeflora]

With this narrow Q boosting on bass, aren't you just boosting a few notes i.e. 50hz=G/40hz=D??? How does this work for a bassline as a whole? What if the bassline is frequently hitting notes an octave up? Did I miss something? Are you all talking about a gated sine at 40/50hz or subsynth targeted around there?


BTW Thrill, did you try out a Peavy Kosmos? The subsynth/subenhancer on that is pretty good.

[wallace]

I've heard some people talk about using a freqency chart and boosting the frequencies around the tonic note of the song. Anybody had luck with that?

[StuartMac]

I sometimes do this to mixes with a Crane Song Ibis. A gentle boost around the tonic (or actually more often a fifth above, occassionally a third) just seems to open things out in a musically pleasing way.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by faeflora
With this narrow Q boosting on bass, aren't you just boosting a few notes i.e. 50hz=G/40hz=D??? How does this work for a bassline as a whole? What if the bassline is frequently hitting notes an octave up? Did I miss something? Are you all talking about a gated sine at 40/50hz or subsynth targeted around there?


BTW Thrill, did you try out a Peavy Kosmos? The subsynth/subenhancer on that is pretty good.

The narrow Q i usually do on the whole mix with the kick and bass together.

I have been using the Kosmos since it first came out.

The Pro is much better and more versatile.

I only use it on kicks and guitars though.

I like the DBX 120ds better for the bass.

[Bang]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
The narrow Q i usually do on the whole mix with the kick and bass together.

I have been using the Kosmos since it first came out.

The Pro is much better and more versatile.

I only use it on kicks and guitars though.

I like the DBX 120ds better for the bass.

Do you use the subsynths on R&B and Hip Hop or do you use them on Rock stuff too? Since this is an AW thread, does anyone know if the king uses any sub harmonic stuff like the dbx or peavey unit?
Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Bang
Do you use the subsynths on R&B and Hip Hop or do you use them on Rock stuff too? Since this is an AW thread, does anyone know if the king uses any sub harmonic stuff like the dbx or peavey unit?
Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com

I really only do the sub stuff when its appropriate.

It all depends on the tracks.

If its over done it will kill your mix in the mastering.

Trust me its happened a couple of times and i was shocked.grudge

On rock i do use the Kosmos Pro on electric guitars.

Once in a while on a kick.

For the pop/R&B stuff i might use the DBX on bass, maybe not.

Same goes for the kicks.

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

For huge kik sounds listen to the Dandy Warhols 'Godless' song from 13 tales from urban bohemia.. Its absolutely bullshti house big it is.. either or im still loving it! and jealous cos my kiks never get that big or deep.grudge

Also love the kik tone from the 2nd Rage against the machine album 'evil empire'.. pure kik bliss, in that upfront 'Andy' rock vibe...love it!

Wiggy

[jpaudio]

Although it's been mentioned before, AW's biggest asset has got to be Steve Sisco, his engineer/assistant for over a decade or so now. How many of us can say we've ever sat down to mix and could just focus on the music, not worry about technical BS that pops up, interferes with the flow, etc. AW has Steve to tackle this every day. Think of it similarly to the conflict of a producer who's also engineering the tracking... not many are capable of truly focusing on the music and performances while also dealing with technical issues. In fact, it's almost a conflict of interest... there's a "give up" in order to "get" involved somewhere in the process, no matter who we're speaking of... and AW must have realized this early on in his career as a mixer.

I recall reading somewhere that AW views a mix like a live show, bringing things forward or sending them back almost like musicians on a stage. Makes sense, really.

[KevinS]

Getting Steve Sisco to be a guest moderator might be an interesting idea???? I recall him showing up on Digi's board for a thread about Andy.

[jpaudio]

Originally posted by KevinS
Getting Steve Sisco to be a guest moderator might be an interesting idea???? I recall him showing up on Digi's board for a thread about Andy.

Steve made some great posts on the DUC, i remember that... everyone always fusses about "what outboard does AW use" etc., and Steve came out with the line, "it's FOCUS, not Focusrite" or something like that... makes perfect sense. AW could probably smoke any of us on an 8-bus with no outboard and 16-bit ADATs feeding it.

[tlester]

Just curious... what was Andy's pace for mixing? How long does he take per song? How often does he take breaks? How long are the breaks?

-Tom

[jpaudio]

Originally posted by tlester
Just curious... what was Andy's pace for mixing? How long does he take per song? How often does he take breaks? How long are the breaks?

-Tom

I've been told it's an average of 6-8 hours per song... no idea for sure though

[drew]

He mixed Shutter To Think's Pony Express record in 9 days and it's not simple stuff.