Tom Sawyer lead sound

[drummy]

Man, I've been really, really obsessed over the song Tom Sawyer by Rush, particularly the creamy lead made by the Minimoog. What other vintage analog monosynths do pretty faithful reproductions of the lead sound besides the Moog Source? How about the Moog Prodigy (I know it's a Moog, but how close does it get), the ARP Odyssey, or the SCI Pro-One?

Remember, I want the lead sound, not the huge sweep made by the OB-X.

[Me_Likey]

Haven't actually tried it, but I would bet that my Access Virus b might come close. it can get that creamy fuzzy thing anyway.

Originally Posted by drummy

Man, I've been really, really obsessed over the song Tom Sawyer by Rush, particularly the creamy lead made by the Minimoog. What other vintage analog monosynths do pretty faithful reproductions of the lead sound besides the Moog Source? How about the Moog Prodigy (I know it's a Moog, but how close does it get), the ARP Odyssey, or the SCI Pro-One?

Remember, I want the lead sound, not the huge sweep made by the OB-X.

[drummy]

Originally Posted by Me_Likey

Haven't actually tried it, but I would bet that my Access Virus b might come close. it can get that creamy fuzzy thing anyway.

Thanks, but I'm not interested in digital stuff, not even VAs. I want vintage analog.

[u b k]

neither the arp nor the sci is gonna have that moog filter which gives you that instantly recognizable vowel-like sound when you work it. the voyager will do it just fine. you could also run the arp wide open and into a mooger fooger for something much closer.

sequential circuits, the pro's and the prophets and even the six trak, are super sweet synths, but worlds apart from the moog. the arp is definitely more of a chameleon than the moog, way more versatile, but not nearly as thick.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[drummy]

Originally Posted by u b k

neither the arp nor the sci is gonna have that moog filter which gives you that instantly recognizable vowel-like sound when you work it. the voyager will do it just fine. you could also run the arp wide open and into a mooger fooger for something much closer.

sequential circuits, the pro's and the prophets and even the six trak, are super sweet synths, but worlds apart from the moog. the arp is definitely more of a chameleon than the moog, way more versatile, but not nearly as thick.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

Thanks for the reply. I can get kind of close with the Odyssey and the Pro-One though, right (not noticeably close, but not totally out of the neighborhood either)? I mean, you said the Pro-One was really different, but it can't be too hard to get kind of close to the lead sound, can it?) Any opinion on the Prodigy?

[666666]

FWIW, the new Dave Smith Instruments Prophet `08 has a patch called "Tom Sawyer"... it's modeled after the opening sound in Tom Sawyer.

Prophet '08 Analog Synthesizer




EDIT:

Originally Posted by drummy

Remember, I want the lead sound, not the huge sweep made by the OB-X.

Oops, just noticed this. Sorry. The Prophet `08 "Tom Sawyer" patch does the opening sweep sound.

[drummy]

Originally Posted by 666666

FWIW, the new Dave Smith Instruments Prophet `08 has a patch called "Tom Sawyer"... it's modeled after the opening sound in Tom Sawyer.

Prophet '08 Analog Synthesizer

Thanks, but I'm only looking for vintage analog.

[666666]

Originally Posted by drummy

Thanks, but I'm only looking for vintage analog.

Ok. Well, the Prophet `08 is new analog... at least it's analog.

I've personally had it with the vintage stuff, seems 85% of the time is spent fixing it and having assorted headaches. It's a beautiful thing to be able to buy a new analog synth now and simply be able to play it and make music without the endless headaches.

If you have the time / knowledge to keep those old vintage things running, and if they're tuned up well, they certainly can sound great though. I wish I had the time and patience myself.

[drummy]

Originally Posted by 666666

Ok. Well, the Prophet `08 is new analog... at least it's analog.

I've personally had it with the vintage stuff, seems 85% of the time is spent fixing it and having assorted headaches. It's a beautiful thing to be able to buy a new analog synth now and simply be able to play it and make music without the endless headaches.

If you have the time / knowledge to keep those old vintage things running, and if they're tuned up well, they certainly can sound great though. I wish I had the time and patience myself.

That's cool. So far, my vintage keyboards are going fine (except for one, but it's a minor problem). Thanks for your input though.

[Carey M]

A Moog Modular?

If you insist on replicating the Minimoog lead with a vintage synth, why not use a Minimoog? Or a Source? I'd imagine a Multimoog could do the trick, too. And the Prodigy... well... To some extent, it can do it... it depends how picky you are.

Why not consider modern substitutes? (like the vintage sounding Macbeth synths, Studio Electronics SE-1, modern modulars, etc.)

- CM

[drummy]

Originally Posted by Carey M

A Moog Modular?

If you insist on replicating the Minimoog lead with a vintage synth, why not use a Minimoog? Or a Source? I'd imagine a Multimoog could do the trick, too. And the Prodigy... well... To some extent, it can do it... it depends how picky you are.

Why not consider modern substitutes? (like the vintage sounding Macbeth synths, Studio Electronics SE-1, modern modulars, etc.)

- CM

Thanks. I'd get a Minimoog, but it's out of my budget. I don't like the membrane interface of the Source. The Prodigy is something I am thinking of. As for the modern ones, I just like the vintage stuff, and I'm not rich or anything, so I just want to spend my money on the vintage stuff.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by drummy

Thanks. I'd get a Minimoog, but it's out of my budget. I don't like the membrane interface of the Source. The Prodigy is something I am thinking of. As for the modern ones, I just like the vintage stuff, and I'm not rich or anything, so I just want to spend my money on the vintage stuff.

Maybe you can't get a vintage piece in your price range that is right. Why not consider newer analog if you can get the sound in your price range. What about the Little Phatty?

[Bryce]

Originally Posted by 666666

Oops, just noticed this. Sorry. The Prophet `08 "Tom Sawyer" patch does the opening sweep sound.

It's a split sound, actually - the lower part of the keyboard does the sweep (4 oscs in detuned unison), and the upper half does the lead (the other 4 oscs in detuned unison).

dB

[666666]

Originally Posted by Bryce

Yes and no. It's a split sound - the lower part of the keyboard does the sweep ( 4 oscs in detuned unison), and the upper half does the lead (the other 4 oscs in detuned unison). dB

Cool!!!

[Lerxst]

This is a live recording of my old tribute band, and the keyboard was an Alesis QS8 for the lead part. Pretty cheap on ebay - pretty cheap all the way around (ha ha) but it got the job done...

~Lerxst

[Duardo]

What about the Little Phatty?

I do believe that Geddy Lee was using a Phatty on the latest tour...

[drummy]

Originally Posted by Lerxst

This is a live recording of my old tribute band, and the keyboard was an Alesis QS8 for the lead part. Pretty cheap on ebay - pretty cheap all the way around (ha ha) but it got the job done...

~Lerxst

That was a really dope cover. And thanks guys, but again, I am only interested in vintage. Call me stubborn or stupid if you will, but to me, vintage synths are the best, and I can't imagine myself spending money on newer analog synths. The cut off date is about 1985. haha.

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by drummy

That was a really dope cover. And thanks guys, but again, I am only interested in vintage. Call me stubborn or stupid if you will, but to me, vintage synths are the best, and I can't imagine myself spending money on newer analog synths. The cut off date is about 1985. haha.

So, by your logic, Dave Smith mysteriously stopped making incredible analogue designs around 1985?

I own a TON of vintage analogue and I love them too, but I have to say, you'll be missing out if you put blinders on your music.

-andrews

[drummy]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

So, by your logic, Dave Smith mysteriously stopped making incredible analogue designs around 1985?

I own a TON of vintage analogue and I love them too, but I have to say, you'll be missing out if you put blinders on your music.

-andrews

Yeah, I guess I have some twisted logic, huh. Don't worry. I know what kind of hamper I'm putting on myself by not getting newer stuff. I have had extensive experience with the Little Phatty and some with the Voyager and Prophet '08.

[alexp]

Originally Posted by drummy

Thanks. I'd get a Minimoog, but it's out of my budget. I don't like the membrane interface of the Source. The Prodigy is something I am thinking of. As for the modern ones, I just like the vintage stuff, and I'm not rich or anything, so I just want to spend my money on the vintage stuff.

I love you.


Its nice to see my more analogue nerds around these parts!


edit - and yeah most of the new stuff sucks.


The mini is nice, but I have gotten a similar sound out of an ms10 believe it or not. Its not really moogy sounding, but it does that biting lead, and it has a really nice PWM for fatness. If you need that moog filter, run it wide open into a moog filter (I use my mini for that)

Good luck.

[jchas]

The lead line could easilly be done on an Odyssey, and to a slightly lesser extent an MS20. I gigged for years using the MS20 for the opening growls (though I needed to run it through a distorting analog echo to get it to really growl).
For the lead line I started with 2 Odysseys synced together, but even after I scaled back and sold one the sound was pretty much indistinguishable from the original. And the S/H filter on Camera Eye, definately use the Odyssey

[666666]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

So, by your logic, Dave Smith mysteriously stopped making incredible analogue designs around 1985? I own a TON of vintage analogue and I love them too, but I have to say, you'll be missing out if you put blinders on your music.

I know a few guys that are so hung up on the whole "vintage" thing, they even wear vintage undershorts. They have no interest in even hearing newer items. Doesn't make much sense, but hey, if it makes you happy, then by all means go for it. Indeed lots of vintage stuff is very cool, and in many cases, vintage stuff IS superior to newer stuff ... but not always.

In recent times I've done extensive testing and comparing of assorted items, new verses vintage (not synths, but other instruments and gear) and overall, my comment is that some vintage stuff kicks ass, some is crap... and some newer stuff kicks ass and some is crap. If you really use your ears and not be concerned with the date of manufacture, across the board, you'd probably pick at least 50% newer stuff over vintage.

But hey, as a hobby, it's certainly cool to collect old vintage stuff... and often the vintage stuff DOES totally kick ass! So it's all good. I still own a certain amount of vintage stuff myself and love it.

But to dismiss all newer gear just because it's "newer" is very silly. There's great vintage stuff, there's great new stuff, use only what makes you happy... but it should all be respected.

I love my original mint Taurus 1 pedals... I'd never sell them... but last time I did a recording, the damn things crapped out on me (that's what vintage gear likes to do) and I was forced to use something else... if memory serves me well, we used a Super Bass Station instead... and for the sound we were going for, the Novation did a damn fine job, the end result was excellent (with a little tweaking in the mix, etc)... and experienced people hear the finished recording now and say, "wow, that vintage Moog sounds awesome!"... sometimes it's just about getting the job done... and nobody else, even those with sharp seasoned ears, knows the difference.

But it is indeed fun to collect and tinker with old stuff, no doubt! Unfortunately for me, every single piece of cool vintage gear I've ever owned has failed on me while using it, causing lots of headaches, downtime and repair bills. If a given vintage piece sounded way better than its newer counterpart, I'd still put up with the headaches and use vintage... because all that counts in the end is the sound... but fortunately, a lot of newer stuff now sounds at least "as good" as a lot of the old stuff, so in those cases, I'll take a new piece over an old piece any day of the week.

We're actually so lucky now that many of the classic manufacturers are still making excellent vintage-style versions ("re-issues" or "recreations") of classic gear... Moog, Dave Smith, Neve, API, Universal Audio and many others... I remember the days when you could not easily get any of this stuff at all... it could take months to track down something in even semi-decent condition and then you'd have to pay a lot for it.... now you can buy it all NEW! Now is not such a bad time to be alive... maybe not as good as 1976 (yeah, I was there ), but, could be worse!

I wonder if in 2035 kids will be like, "wow, I just scored a mint VINTAGE 2008 Prophet `08, this thing is KILLER!!!!" The stuff from the `70's will be in museums by then and the 2035 stuff will probably be all 100% computer driven... the best new "analog synth" around will be a soft-synth of some type... and the resolution will be so high by then that it will sound 100% identical to a real analog synth... but enthusiasts will still be searching for "vintage" stuff anyway, Voyagers, Little Phattys, Prophet `08s etc from WAY back in 2008!

[Carey M]

Other affordable alternatives, that I'd pick over the Prodigy, are the Micromoog (with PWM), Rogue, and the Yamaha CS-15, which is a great, great synth.

- CM

[drummy]

Originally Posted by 666666

I know a few guys that are so hung up on the whole "vintage" thing, they even wear vintage undershorts. They have no interest in even hearing newer items. Doesn't make much sense, but hey, if it makes you happy, then by all means go for it. Indeed lots of vintage stuff is very cool, and in many cases, vintage stuff IS superior to newer stuff ... but not always.

In recent times I've done extensive testing and comparing of assorted items, new verses vintage (not synths, but other instruments and gear) and overall, my comment is that some vintage stuff kicks ass, some is crap... and some newer stuff kicks ass and some is crap. If you really use your ears and not be concerned with the date of manufacture, across the board, you'd probably pick at least 50% newer stuff over vintage.

But hey, as a hobby, it's certainly cool to collect old vintage stuff... and often the vintage stuff DOES totally kick ass! So it's all good. I still own a certain amount of vintage stuff myself and love it.

But to dismiss all newer gear just because it's "newer" is very silly. There's great vintage stuff, there's great new stuff, use only what makes you happy... but it should all be respected.

I love my original mint Taurus 1 pedals... I'd never sell them... but last time I did a recording, the damn things crapped out on me (that's what vintage gear likes to do) and I was forced to use something else... if memory serves me well, we used a Super Bass Station instead... and for the sound we were going for, the Novation did a damn fine job, the end result was excellent (with a little tweaking in the mix, etc)... and experienced people hear the finished recording now and say, "wow, that vintage Moog sounds awesome!"... sometimes it's just about getting the job done... and nobody else, even those with sharp seasoned ears, knows the difference.

But it is indeed fun to collect and tinker with old stuff, no doubt! Unfortunately for me, every single piece of cool vintage gear I've ever owned has failed on me while using it, causing lots of headaches, downtime and repair bills. If a given vintage piece sounded way better than its newer counterpart, I'd still put up with the headaches and use vintage... because all that counts in the end is the sound... but fortunately, a lot of newer stuff now sounds at least "as good" as a lot of the old stuff, so in those cases, I'll take a new piece over an old piece any day of the week.

We're actually so lucky now that many of the classic manufacturers are still making excellent vintage-style versions ("re-issues" or "recreations") of classic gear... Moog, Dave Smith, Neve, API, Universal Audio and many others... I remember the days when you could not easily get any of this stuff at all... it could take months to track down something in even semi-decent condition and then you'd have to pay a lot for it.... now you can buy it all NEW! Now is not such a bad time to be alive... maybe not as good as 1976 (yeah, I was there ), but, could be worse!

I wonder if in 2035 kids will be like, "wow, I just scored a mint VINTAGE 2008 Prophet `08, this thing is KILLER!!!!" The stuff from the `70's will be in museums by then and the 2035 stuff will probably be all 100% computer driven... the best new "analog synth" around will be a soft-synth of some type... and the resolution will be so high by then that it will sound 100% identical to a real analog synth... but enthusiasts will still be searching for "vintage" stuff anyway, Voyagers, Little Phattys, Prophet `08s etc from WAY back in 2008!

Like I said, I buy the vintage stuff because I don't have much money, and all the money I can spend on synths will be on vintage and subsequent repair, because I like having them for not only their sound values, but their aesthetic values as well. And the whole unstable thing is part of the charm of vintage synths. I just like vintage synths, and saying that my entire collection of synths is all vintage analog makes my heart nice and warm. If I was wealthier, my views might be different, but I am not. Like I said, I have had experience with the Little Phatty, Voyager, and Prophet '08 synths. And I loved all three. I also love the Roland D-50 and the Clavia Nord Lead series. I will not spend my money on these though because I just don't feel a certain love for them as I do the vintage stuff. Like I said, my logic may be twisted, but it's MY logic, and to me, it is entirely sensible. You can try to convince me to buy newer synths, but many have tried and failed, and all subsequent people who will try in the future will fail. It's just how it is for me.

[666666]

Originally Posted by drummy

You can try to convince me to buy newer synths, but many have tried and failed, and all subsequent people who will try in the future will fail. It's just how it is for me.

Side note... I was certainly not trying to convince you or anyone else to buy new, but just merely pointing out to anyone passing through here that new CAN be just as good as vintage.

I guess I felt a need to bring that up since I do happen to know a few people personally that are so wrapped up in vintage stuff that they just don't even "hear" anymore. They'll buy and use ANYTHING vintage just because it's "vintage" ,whether it sounds good or not... and they'll totally reject ANYTHING "new", whether it sounds poor or not. So, I was inspired by them if anything to write this, not anyone here.

Now if you're a serious musician / producer of music, rejecting new stuff just because it's "new" is silly and warped logic... because people that do that are putting manufacturing date BEFORE the sound. This is like saying, I will only buy and use keyboards that are red, but I will never use ones that are green... what does this have to do with the ultimate sonic performance? And thus what does this ultimately have to do with making MUSIC? Same goes for manufacture date... it means nothing really, at least in terms of sonic performance. On the other hand if you are a collector for the sake of collecting, that's a totally different story.

You state that one reason you are after vintage units is to save money. I'm not a vintage keyboard collector or anything, but whenever I do see good vintage synths on Ebay, they're priced astronomically high! There's even some lunatic on Ebay right now offereing a mint set of Taurus 1's for $4,800 ... and Taurus 1's HAVE sold for over $2,000 in any case, etc... that ain't cheap!!!! You could get a brand new Prophet `08 or new Moog Voyager Rack for the same or less... brand new with full warranty, no issues or headaches, dead mint condition. I'm not sure which prized vintage synths in mint condition cost so much less than the newer stuff... actually I'd love to know.

Finally, it's all good, it's all cool. I'm NOT trying to convince anyone to not buy vintage. As I had stated earlier, I actually own and love vintage stuff myself (just wish it was more reliable). But I pick and choose gear based solely on how it sounds, not the date of manufacture. That's my logic anyway. Just making a GENERAL point.