If you think micamp quality is more important than mic quality...

[Jimbo]

...do you also feel that power amp quality is more important than monitor quality?

I'm just curious to see if people who believe the title feel it applies to the other end of the transduction chain as well.

Kind of like this

[drBill]

Who knows. But I do know that after owning NS10's and having them powered by high end Haflers for 10 years, I swapped out to Pacific Innovative mono block amps, and when the clients came back in, they thought I had re-tracked the drums. It made THAT much of a difference. Huge. Pity I couldn't keep them at 2k a channel.

[tINY]

The two are intertwined.

I am convinced that more money spent on speakers gets you more improvement per dollar for a long time.

However, amps capable of driving the load that the speaker presents to them are needed.




-tINY

[Jimbo]

Yes, I'm a transducer person also...I just wanted to hear whether the adamant "amp" guys believe it on both ends.

[John Suitcase]

Well, clearly they are two sides of a coin. If the amp isn't operating in its linear range, the sound will be distorted, perhaps very badly. Similarly, if the monitor is not linear, the signal will be distorted. Either one will be a negative. On the other hand, if they're both operating within their linear range, the sound should be a good representation of the signal.

As far as Mics vs Preamps, I tend towards thinking they're both important, and both color the signal, though in different ways. Great mics through a Behrry mixer will sound pretty cloudy and 'cheap' (distorted in a in flattering way,) a recording done using bad or the wrong mics through a Neve will also sound bad.

It's a bit like asking whether the strings or the pickups are more important on an electric guitar. They are both very important, and looking at one without the other is silly.

[big country]

good power amps make a huge difference noboubt about it
good placement plays a big role too.

[vernier]

If my McIntosh went on the blink, I'd call it a day.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by John Suitcase

It's a bit like asking whether the strings or the pickups are more important on an electric guitar. They are both very important, and looking at one without the other is silly.

I hear you, but that's not what I'm asking.

Given a solid microphone, and a solid micamp there are two different thoughts on the upgrade path:
1. upgrade the amp next
2. upgrade the transducer next

I'm curious whether people in the first camp (upgrade the amp next) would follow the same upgrade path if the context were: "Given a solid power amp, and a solid set of monitors".

[mrbowes]

Mic > Mic Pre
Amp > Speaker

The closer in the chain to the source, the more important.

stike

[Jimbo]

Ooohhh...and MrBowes turns it on its head!


So, by extension you believe: D/A > Amp > Speaker

[peeceebee]

My opinion, the farther "up" the signal chain you go (CLOSER to the instrument/voice), the more signifigance changes become, in general.
I.E. change the sound at the source is most signifigant, change the mic second most, change the pre third most, etc.

Of course dramatic changes anywhere in the signal chain can change things bigtime...

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Ooohhh...and MrBowes turns it on its head!


So, by extension you believe: D/A > Amp > Speaker

I'm not sure if you're just trolling for trouble or ???

Every link in the chain is important. You can't make a generalization about these things. If you're talking about a radio shack mic and a soundcraft pre, I'd say upgrade the mic first. If you're talking about a U87 and a soundcraft pre, I'd say upgrade the pre first. It's all relative. And that carries over to speakers/amps as well.

Mixers can adapt to the sonics and deficiencies of the most ugly sounding speakers if they want/need to. But putting a great power amp on that speaker will clean it up significantly. So........

The thread and your point is still moot in my mind.

[Kiwiburger]

A bad power amp can hiss and hum and distort and suck. These are "features" that are pretty much designed in and don't go away.

A bad speaker cabinet might rattle, but generally a speaker doesn't cause bad sound - it just reproduces it. Obviously they have different frequency ranges, a distinct EQ curve and tonality. And things like horns & piezo sound really crap, but I don't consider them "speakers".

So IMO, speakers - like microphones - have a wide range of tonality, and therefore make big differences in sound. But does that make them more important?

I value a great preamp more than a great microphone - because a preamp has the power to make all mics sound better, or to make all mics suck.

I value a great power amp more than great speakers, because it has the power to make all speakers better, or all speaker suck.

There are low cost mics and speakers that sound great with good amps. But IMO there are no low cost preamps and power amps that are any good.

Semantics really. They are completey different things, and both are necessary - otherwise you have no sound at all.

[kurt]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

A bad power amp can hiss and hum and distort and suck. These are "features" that are pretty much designed in and don't go away.

A bad speaker cabinet might rattle, but generally a speaker doesn't cause bad sound - it just reproduces it. Obviously they have different frequency ranges, a distinct EQ curve and tonality. And things like horns & piezo sound really crap, but I don't consider them "speakers".

So IMO, speakers - like microphones - have a wide range of tonality, and therefore make big differences in sound. But does that make them more important?

I value a great preamp more than a great microphone - because a preamp has the power to make all mics sound better, or to make all mics suck.

I value a great power amp more than great speakers, because it has the power to make all speakers better, or all speaker suck.

There are low cost mics and speakers that sound great with good amps. But IMO there are no low cost preamps and power amps that are any good.

Semantics really. They are completey different things, and both are necessary - otherwise you have no sound at all.

[getreel]

It all depends on the mic and the preamp. I really great pre can make some of the less expensive chinese mics sound better, but a better mic will obviously sound way better with a better pre. or something...obviously. duh really.I'm sounding real dumb and redundant now...

[amishsixstringe]

Originally Posted by getreel

It all depends on the mic and the preamp. I really great pre can make some of the less expensive chinese mics sound better, but a better mic will obviously sound way better with a better pre. or something...obviously. duh really.I'm sounding real dumb and redundant now...

Actually, You're right. No preamp in the world can make one of those MXL sdc's sound great, just about any pre will still sound ok with a U47, and a 57 can sound really good or like shit depending on the pre. So, there's really no written laws here.

I would say that generally, the mic is more important, however.

Neil

[Kiwiburger]

What's more important in a car - wheels or an engine?

[Yetti]

Ok, I'm in.
What you choose first would totally depend on what you are currently working with.

If I only have a few 57's and a Behringer mic pre, I spend the first dollars on a decent mic pre.
If I only have a few 57's and an "o.k." mic pre (Art, RNP, Joe Meek), I would spend the first dollars on a decent LDC mic.

[Yetti]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

What's more important in a car - wheels or an engine?

None of the above...
The car stereo is most important.

[tINY]

Originally Posted by Yetti

None of the above...
The car stereo is most important.

I was thinking brakes....



-tINY

[big country]

Originally Posted by amishsixstringe

Actually, You're right. No preamp in the world can make one of those MXL sdc's sound great, just about any pre will still sound ok with a U47, and a 57 can sound really good or like shit depending on the pre. So, there's really no written laws here.

I would say that generally, the mic is more important, however.

Neil

I have an SDC mxl that would rock some pretty big boats

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

I value a great preamp more than a great microphone - because a preamp has the power to make all mics sound better, or to make all mics suck.

I value a great power amp more than great speakers, because it has the power to make all speakers better, or all speaker suck.

There are low cost mics and speakers that sound great with good amps. But IMO there are no low cost preamps and power amps that are any good.

Thanks for your position on that.

Definitely a few points I hadn't considered. I'm still on the transducer end of things, but appreciate your perspective.