A thread for asking the things you should know by now but don't
#3091
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
  #3091
Is it actually possible to do parallel compression In a hybrid setup, eg bussing a track in the DAW and then using an analog insert on the bus.

I always seem to get the dreaded "phase effect" - seems like DAW latency compensation is not up to snuff? Is there a workaround? I'm thinking maybe some sort of summing setup?
#3092
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
  #3092
Lives for gear
 
travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRobb View Post
I get the bit about using compression in conjunction with other things, but is there a comp that works "bottom up" rather than "top down"?
Yup. An upward compressor. Any compressor can be set up in parallel to achieve this. A few hardware and lot of software compressors have parallel or blend circuits built in to accomplish this. Slate Dragon comes to mind. I don't know of any hardware units that are specifically for upward compression, but it's more a technique than type of device.

However, upward compression can also be achieved with some tracks simply by riding the fader.
#3093
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
  #3093
Moderator
 
matt thomas's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by method1 View Post
Is it actually possible to do parallel compression In a hybrid setup, eg bussing a track in the DAW and then using an analog insert on the bus.

I always seem to get the dreaded "phase effect" - seems like DAW latency compensation is not up to snuff? Is there a workaround? I'm thinking maybe some sort of summing setup?
Yes, your latency compensation is not set right. You should also get this right anyway, for recording.

Assuming you do not have a way of automatically doing this in your DAW:

Plug one of your outputs into an input (careful not to get a feedback loop. mute the inout or something), and play a click out that output recording it through the input.. Afterwards, zoom in and check how many samples the recorded signal is out. There will be a setting somewhere that you can compensate for this by entering the figure you just figured out.

matt
#3094
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
  #3094
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
Yup. An upward compressor. Any compressor can be set up in parallel to achieve this. A few hardware and lot of software compressors have parallel or blend circuits built in to accomplish this. Slate Dragon comes to mind. I don't know of any hardware units that are specifically for upward compression, but it's more a technique than type of device.

However, upward compression can also be achieved with some tracks simply by riding the fader.
Sorry to be pedantic, but the compressor part is working top down. It's the compression in combination with other elements that creates what you're calling bottom up.
#3095
10th May 2012
Old 10th May 2012
  #3095
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt thomas View Post
Yes, your latency compensation is not set right. You should also get this right anyway, for recording.

Assuming you do not have a way of automatically doing this in your DAW:

Plug one of your outputs into an input (careful not to get a feedback loop. mute the inout or something), and play a click out that output recording it through the input.. Afterwards, zoom in and check how many samples the recorded signal is out. There will be a setting somewhere that you can compensate for this by entering the figure you just figured out.

matt
Thanks

I've done loopback tests, adjusted sample offsets etc.

Although Im guessing that figure isn't valid for normal one-way recording that doesn't do a roundtrip, because a loopback measures roundtrip latency?

I've used the i/o plugins in cubase and logic too, but parallel compression doesn't seem to work properly. It's fine for using an insert on a track but in parallel I've had no success. Maybe I should try a higher sample rate? I usually work at 48k.
#3096
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3096
Lives for gear
 

Good day folks have a question.
Came across a term called phase cancellation. Did some googling and found out that is happens when certain peaks in waveforms are out of phase and cancel each other out. All my reading suggests that it is most common in an environment where microphones are placed at different distances.
My question is and forgive me for this. Is it possible to get phase cancellations in a digital domain? I mean since I am not recording anything can I get any cancellations in phase?
#3097
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3097
Moderator
 
matt thomas's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by method1 View Post
Thanks

I've done loopback tests, adjusted sample offsets etc.

Although Im guessing that figure isn't valid for normal one-way recording that doesn't do a roundtrip, because a loopback measures roundtrip latency?

I've used the i/o plugins in cubase and logic too, but parallel compression doesn't seem to work properly. It's fine for using an insert on a track but in parallel I've had no success. Maybe I should try a higher sample rate? I usually work at 48k.
It shouldn't matter about sample rate, as to whether it works or not.

A loopback does measure roundtrip, but that is what you are doing when you insert an analog processor.

Doesn't cubase have a "ping" feature to line it up?

matt
#3098
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3098
Moderator
 
matt thomas's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Aristocrat View Post
Good day folks have a question.
Came across a term called phase cancellation. Did some googling and found out that is happens when certain peaks in waveforms are out of phase and cancel each other out. All my reading suggests that it is most common in an environment where microphones are placed at different distances.
My question is and forgive me for this. Is it possible to get phase cancellations in a digital domain? I mean since I am not recording anything can I get any cancellations in phase?
Yes, if you have two copies of the same sound playing. Or even if you have two sounds at the same frequency.

For example, try this: Play a track, make a copy of that track with the same audio file and insert a plugin that can put it out of phase, whilst doing nothing else. Play it and what do you hear? It should be nothing, because it is totally phase cancelling.

In most fully programmed music cancelation won't be an issue though..

matt
#3099
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3099
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Not at all, in fact it's quite common to use compression to *increase* dynamic range by creating very loud and controlled 'thump' of a transient with all other info being pushed way down; blend that in parallel on a drum bus and you add tremendous punch and definition to the body of the drums.

SSL's are the undisputed kings of that trick. 30ms attack, fastest release, 10:1, DIG IN!

You can also do the same on a vocal track to add intelligibility to the lyric and punch to the delivery.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Thanks for your input Gregory.

Just did that (although with a Distressor) with a synth sound, which already was "ploppy". After compression it got Ploppy leaded to better presence in a full mix, although it's played pretty low in the back.

I agree with Matt, that the dynamics remain the same and it's just a matter of semantics. Maybe I'm wrong, because I didn't measure the dynamic after such processing. With today's enhanced compressors and their features you just may be able to do more than just "plain compressing". Initially compressors were made for decreasing the dynamic.
#3100
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3100
Lives for gear
 

O ok I get you so more than likely I need not be checking for phase cancellations then.
Thanks matt.
#3101
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3101
Lives for gear
 

I have another question if you guys don't mind.
If for example I would like to learn about these things more in depth, not only phase cancellations but the mixing aspect in all. Naturally a lot of it is going to depend on experimentation and personal tastes but it just seems like there is so much I don't know when it comes to the mix process, like this process of self education is more of a discovery of my own ignorance in the grand scheme of things. Is there anything I could spend expensive time reading like say the process of a few yeasr or so that would bring me up to speed. I find myself merely doing things like EQing, balancing adding reverb and other minor things even though I am a musician and composer by trade. Then I come to this thread to learn some things only to find that I am not even viewing the tip of the iceberg that is on the tip of the other iceberg. All suggestions are welcome. Schools, places to start anything at all.

Thanks in advance really trying to advance so I can at least understand most of what is going on.
#3102
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3102
Moderator
 
matt thomas's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Aristocrat View Post
I have another question if you guys don't mind.
If for example I would like to learn about these things more in depth, not only phase cancellations but the mixing aspect in all. Naturally a lot of it is going to depend on experimentation and personal tastes but it just seems like there is so much I don't know when it comes to the mix process, like this process of self education is more of a discovery of my own ignorance in the grand scheme of things. Is there anything I could spend expensive time reading like say the process of a few yeasr or so that would bring me up to speed. I find myself merely doing things like EQing, balancing adding reverb and other minor things even though I am a musician and composer by trade. Then I come to this thread to learn some things only to find that I am not even viewing the tip of the iceberg that is on the tip of the other iceberg. All suggestions are welcome. Schools, places to start anything at all.

Thanks in advance really trying to advance so I can at least understand most of what is going on.
Well firstly, I'll recommend NOT going to a school. (they tend to be a waste of money, and are not generally well respected in the industry, with exceptions) But you do need to get experience somewhere, be it on your own stuff or someone else's studio.

And to everyone who disagrees with the above, I understand that YMMV

There are a few good books, but I can't remember any names off the top of my head. There are also a few good videos on youtube, or even product demo videos of plugins sometimes have good info.

For the technical stuff, even gearslutz can be worthwhile, assuming you are able to sift out the good information.

Or if you have some money you could go to this: http://www.mixwiththemasters.com/HOME.html

matt
#3103
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3103
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt thomas View Post
Well firstly, I'll recommend NOT going to a school. (they tend to be a waste of money, and are not generally well respected in the industry, with exceptions) But you do need to get experience somewhere, be it on your own stuff or someone else's studio.

There are a few good books, but I can't remember any names off the top of my head. There are also a few good videos on youtube, or even product demo videos of plugins sometimes have good info.

For the technical stuff, even gearslutz can be worthwhile, assuming you are able to sift out the good information.

Or if you have some money you could go to this: INTRO

matt
Thanks again matt, I have little over half a decade worth of experience with my daw so that should work in my favour but seeing as I am coming from a musician's standpoint developing skill lied so much within the realm of creativity for me, mind you I learned a lot but there is so much more than I need to learn and being that I am a pianist I am going to HAVE to learn about recording instruments because I intend to use live instruments in the future. Thanks for all the info and if there are any books or so that you can point me in the direction towards or if you do remember the names of them please PM me me if you can. Thanks again.
#3104
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3104
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt thomas View Post
Or if you have some money you could go to this: HOME

matt

ooooh, I so much would like to do that...
I wonder if you can attend there, without knowing the big consoles...
#3105
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3105
Moderator
 
matt thomas's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz View Post
ooooh, I so much would like to do that...
I wonder if you can attend there, without knowing the big consoles...
Sure can, I went to the Tony Maserati one, he pretty much didn't even use the console.

And its easy to get to from Switzerland.

matt
#3106
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3106
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt thomas View Post
Sure can, I went to the Tony Maserati one, he pretty much didn't even use the console.

And its easy to get to from Switzerland.

matt
Yeah, I've already got in touch with Victor and asked him about the "entry level" of an attendee. He said it's not necessary to know big consoles.

I'll check with my wife to go there for 2 weeks vacation. 1 week for me workshop while she's trekking, walking, etc. then 1 week together

Which 3 things were the best for you in this workshop? What did you learn new?
#3107
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3107
Lives for gear
 

My Marshall amp (an 1987X) has three positions on its Mains selector: 110, 220 and 230 Volts. I'm in Belgium, so current here is 220 V. Nevertheless, when I bought the amp in Germany it was set at 230 V, and it's stayed in that position ever since.

I guess it doesn't make that much of a difference, but I don't really understand why there's a 230 V position. Would it affect the amp's performance in some way if it switched it to 220 V?
#3108
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3108
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Aristocrat View Post
Thanks again matt, I have little over half a decade worth of experience with my daw so that should work in my favour but seeing as I am coming from a musician's standpoint developing skill lied so much within the realm of creativity for me, mind you I learned a lot but there is so much more than I need to learn and being that I am a pianist I am going to HAVE to learn about recording instruments because I intend to use live instruments in the future. Thanks for all the info and if there are any books or so that you can point me in the direction towards or if you do remember the names of them please PM me me if you can. Thanks again.
See if there are any studios around that will let you intern. Or if there are experienced guys who do what you are trying to do that you could help out in some way in exchange for watching them work.
There is really no substitute for watching experienced pros work.
#3109
11th May 2012
Old 11th May 2012
  #3109
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRobb View Post
See if there are any studios around that will let you intern. Or if there are experienced guys who do what you are trying to do that you could help out in some way in exchange for watching them work.
There is really no substitute for watching experienced pros work.
yeah I think so as well, and the general consensus not only this site is that many schools are not well respected and that there really is no substitute for spending lots of time at your local studio if they allow you to intern.
#3110
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #3110
Gear Head
 

This is a question I've asked a few times to other engineers, and got diff answers. Should I leave on my consoles and pre amps, or shut them down each time? How long is the max they should be left on?

Thanks for your input!!
#3111
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #3111
Moderator
 
matt thomas's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz View Post
Which 3 things were the best for you in this workshop? What did you learn new?
Too hard to explain in writing. But it was very worthwhile. Obviously the seminars will be completely different depending on who's taking them.

Say Hi to Victor from me, he's a good guy.

Matt
#3112
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #3112
Lives for gear
 

Evening people

My question today is what is a transient?
are they little frequencies that last a short time? or am I wrong. Anyone mind explaining this to me please?
Thanks in advance.
#3113
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #3113
Moderator
 
matt thomas's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Aristocrat View Post
Evening people

My question today is what is a transient?
are they little frequencies that last a short time? or am I wrong. Anyone mind explaining this to me please?
Thanks in advance.
Its the very beginning of a sound, or at least it is if the sound has a sudden beginning. Like when you hit a snare drum, and look at the wave form, it will have a very sharp beginning to it, that includes the sound of the stick hitting the drum. Its that part. They often have more higher frequencies than the rest of the sound.

matt

Last edited by matt thomas; 13th May 2012 at 12:52 PM.. Reason: changed a couple of words to clarify
#3114
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #3114
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt thomas View Post
Its the very beginning of a sound, or it is when a sound has a sudden beginning. Like when you hit a snare drum, and look at the wave form, it will have a very sharp beginning to it, that includes the sound of the stick hitting the drum. Its that part. They often have more higher frequencies than the rest of the sound.

matt
oho so that is what it is, thank you very much Mr Thomas very much appreciated.
#3115
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #3115
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Aristocrat View Post
oho so that is what it is, thank you very much Mr Thomas very much appreciated.
Matt pretty much nailed, as he usually does.
For an example, try hitting a drum with a hard mallet and then hitting the same drum with a soft mallet. The primary difference is that the hard mallet will produce a sharper initial spike.
#3116
13th May 2012
Old 13th May 2012
  #3116
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRobb View Post
Matt pretty much nailed, as he usually does.
For an example, try hitting a drum with a hard mallet and then hitting the same drum with a soft mallet. The primary difference is that the hard mallet will produce a sharper initial spike.
thanks a lot , recorded it and saw the spike, very much appreciated...it seems there are a lot of terms that I know in terms of just being around the occurrences but not knowing the technical term for it.

Which brings me to me my next question.

What is an auxiliary bus, I probably use it but just don't know that it is called an auxiliary bus and how so does it differ from say a stereo bus, though in defining it the latter will probably be answered.
#3117
14th May 2012
Old 14th May 2012
  #3117
Gear interested
 

How do i start a thread

So sorry if this is the wrong spot to post this but how do u start a new thread.
Seems really weird to me that there is not big text at the top that says POST NEW THREAD.
#3118
14th May 2012
Old 14th May 2012
  #3118
Gear interested
 

So I have a quick question about amps. I was wondering which of these 3 Amps I should get, the stone 20W , the drive 20W or the Yamaha 10W?

Thanks


Sent from my MOTWX435KT using Gearslutz App
#3119
14th May 2012
Old 14th May 2012
  #3119
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djnecessity View Post
So sorry if this is the wrong spot to post this but how do u start a new thread.
Seems really weird to me that there is not big text at the top that says POST NEW THREAD.
Look again There's two, top and below on the threads pages. (not in the thread pages..

Next question
What's a 'stone and 'drive amp?
#3120
14th May 2012
Old 14th May 2012
  #3120
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
Look again There's two, top and below on the threads pages. (not in the thread pages..

Next question
What's a 'stone and 'drive amp?
you beat me to it, I was just about to ask the same thing.
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