A thread for asking the things you should know by now but don't

[Fingerpicker]

This thread is fantastic. I've only just come across it and am reading it from start to finish. In the meantime though, may as well chuck something into the mix:

Apart from the obvious ones of storage and tidiness, are there any other advantages to having your interface/preamps etc as racked items rather than stand-alones? Do they behave (produce the same results) the same as stand-alone units? Are they worth more/less at resale?

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by Fingerpicker

Apart from the obvious ones of storage and tidiness, are there any other advantages to having your interface/preamps etc as racked items rather than stand-alones? Do they behave (produce the same results) the same as stand-alone units? Are they worth more/less at resale?

No matter if they are standalone or rack mountable. That's just form factor. It's the guts that count. However, I have seen some studios that go to great lengths to keep isolated chassis grounds on rack gear with plastic spacers and sleeves protecting each unit from grounding out on the rack rails, probably to avoid any potential ground loops or noise, etc. So if that potential is realized, then I guess there's something to be said for desktop units.

Resale really has to do with demand for the piece, whether it's desktop or rack unit. I tend to choose gear that's rackable though.

[Fingerpicker]

Originally Posted by travisbrown

No matter if they are standalone or rack mountable. That's just form factor. It's the guts that count. However, I have seen some studios that go to great lengths to keep isolated chassis grounds on rack gear with plastic spacers and sleeves protecting each unit from grounding out on the rack rails, probably to avoid any potential ground loops or noise, etc. So if that potential is realized, then I guess there's something to be said for desktop units.

Resale really has to do with demand for the piece, whether it's desktop or rack unit. I tend to choose gear that's rackable though.

Thanks!

[DeadPoet]

The obvious answer to my question below if of course "why don't you go and try yourself" but there could always be someone around with an opinion about this:

Is there a sonic benefit to running a mix through 2 DI's (Radial JDI) into a pair of preamps (UA610, SCA api or neve) or could I save myself the hassle and insert something like URS Sat, Waves MPX, Decapitator,... ?



Herwig

[Hardtoe]

Originally Posted by DeadPoet

The obvious answer to my question below if of course "why don't you go and try yourself" but there could always be someone around with an opinion about this:

Is there a sonic benefit to running a mix through 2 DI's (Radial JDI) into a pair of preamps (UA610, SCA api or neve) or could I save myself the hassle and insert something like URS Sat, Waves MPX, Decapitator,... ?



Herwig

It depends - it will all sound different.

It's up to you what you like best in terms or workflow and sonics.....

Why don't you go and try it yourself.

I have tried many different combos of analog and digital processing to add some colouration - IMO I would choose from a variety of gear based on the desired outcome. I can do this as I have put in the time to learn what my various chains can achieve.

I personally could never rest easy just taking someones word for it - how do you have any idea if their opinion is valid for your situation and taste?

[u b k]

Originally Posted by DeadPoet

Is there a sonic benefit to running a mix through ...

The thing that makes questions like this impossible to answer is that it hinges on there being some kind of agreement as to the meaning of 'sonic benefit'.

I can say without fear of dispute that it will cause a change in the sound, and depending on the chain you set up that change could be nothing more than the sound of your converters or it could be heavy tube drive and transient blur, but there will be a change and by definition a change in the signal is distortion. But only you can determine if the distortions are pleasant, desirable, or positive in some way.

I can also say that anytime you change/distort a sound, for every thing you gain there will be something you lose. Your job is to hear those tradeoffs clearly and make a judgment, and imho the muse is best served when you make those judgments on an emotional basis... not only your emotional response to the raw sonics, but also the emotional qualities of the song and how effectively they're transmitted across the wire as a result of the distortions you're applying.

In the case of re-amping signals I generally get euphonic tonal shades on the one hand (gain), and rounding of transients on the other (loss). With digital, I often find both that gain and that loss to be positive, so I tend to go there, but there does come a point where the loss of transient fidelity starts to mitigate the impact of the music.

I didn't always believe it, but I now recognize that at some point there is such a thing as 'too much color'. Recognizing that point is an art, and the only way to get good at it is to experiment, fµck up, and learn... so get to work!


Gregory Scott - ubk

[schnerg]

new question: i'm running a mic straight into a MOTU soundcard, that has 3 pad settings for instrument in. When/why do I use pad? When should I use it instead of trim? ie what's the 'ground zero' setting for each and then why should i adjust and which?

[chuckm]

Hello-
I am hoping someone has an answer to my problem. If I were to guess, I am doing something dumb and have overlooked it!

I purchased a new Mac Pro and PT 10 f in January this year. I have a few questions that I think have to due with some kind of disc allocation and I cannot figure it out. Here are a few of the symptoms:

1. When I create a new session, sometimes PT will create a folder that contains the session, session file back ups, etc. Other times it just creates the PT icon and does not include a folder that includes the session files back ups, audio tracks, etc. All of these items are however found in one folder that is called session file back ups and includes session file back up sessions from tons of previous sessions. The audio is the same way. There is a folder that has hundreds of audio tracks to various sessions.

2. I can build a new session, record and close it. When I reopen it I get the prompt that says missing files and then the task manager goes to work to relink the files.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Chuck Mauk

[kraku]

About DI boxes:

Judging by their XLR outputs, the output signal is mic level?
Does this mean that if I plug an electric guitar to a DI box, I need to route it to a mic preamp and then to the audio interface's line in? (my audio interface doesn't have a mic input)

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by kraku

About DI boxes:

Judging by their XLR outputs, the output signal is mic level?
Does this mean that if I plug an electric guitar to a DI box, I need to route it to a mic preamp and then to the audio interface's line in? (my audio interface doesn't have a mic input)

XLR doesn't necessarily mean mic level, it means balanced. But yes, typically a DI box also level matches to a nominal mic level. They are meant to level match, balance a signal, and match impedance. Active DIs also buffer the signal.

You could just buffer your guitar and go right to the interface input. Any buffered guitar pedal should work in the middle.

[kraku]

I'm a synth guy and I have near zero experience in electronics. So I've no idea what a buffered signal means in this context.

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by kraku

I'm a synth guy and I have near zero experience in electronics. So I've no idea what a buffered signal means in this context.

Buffer amplifier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most tuner pedals are buffered. Actually, most non-true bypass pedals will act as buffers, though cheap pedals usually not so well.

Basically it converts the high impedance of your guitar to low impedance. Sort of like what a DI does, but for line level signal.

[kraku]

Ah-ha! Thanks Got it now!

[Max H.]

OK so if -20 DBFS = +4dBu, does +24 dBu signify clipping in the analog domain? Probably not but I've never had a great understanding of dBu. Thanks for your help!

[Resonance5]

it was a mtter of time since i would end here !!

my question is , is there a difference between recording a synth in an audio interface's preamp or line input??

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by Resonance5

it was a mtter of time since i would end here !!

my question is , is there a difference between recording a synth in an audio interface's preamp or line input??

yes soundwise

most likely, going into the preamp input you'll end up with distortion. but then there are preamps with just one input plus a pad selector.

and then there is the issue with the impedance that has an influence to the sound, but i can't tell you how that works in detail.

that's why i always use a DI: synth > DI > pre in (mic signal = low z)

[Black Shadow]

I recently picked up an old Yamaha stereo system for cheap. The power cord of the amplifier doesn't have a ground wire, but the amp does have a ground connection input. When there's no music playing, there's a fair amount of hum.

Can I just tie a wire running from the ground input of the amplifier to the ground pin of an outlet?

[Lahaine]

An audio interface /sound card is useful if i don't have to connect anything to it or do any recording? The quality of sound changes ?

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by Max H.

OK so if -20 DBFS = +4dBu, does +24 dBu signify clipping in the analog domain? Probably not but I've never had a great understanding of dBu. Thanks for your help!

Thats correct, if your interface is calibrated at -20dBFS = +4dBu, a mixer or pre with +24dBu output would clip the input of an AD converter.

Originally Posted by schnerg

new question: i'm running a mic straight into a MOTU soundcard, that has 3 pad settings for instrument in. When/why do I use pad? When should I use it instead of trim? ie what's the 'ground zero' setting for each and then why should i adjust and which?

As a practical example, Pads should be enganged when the pre even at its lowest (or near lowest) gain setting is outputting a hot signal, however you should try to get away with not using pads as often as you can, since they will alter to a lesser or greater degree the sound being captured by your mic, an effect which sometimes may be desireable

[Hot Vibrato]

Okay... Here's one: Why do audio interfaces (even the expensive ones) not have channel inserts on their preamps? In my (admittedly limited) experience with recording, I've found that it is almost always beneficial to compress the signal while tracking in order to reduce the risk of transients and other peaks from clipping the signal. Not doing so will typically result in an anemic overall signal. NONE of the interfaces with built-in preamps that I've looked at allow for this. WTF?? Am I missing something? Has the idea of controlling your dynamics BEFORE the signal turns into ones and zeros fallen out of favor? I understand that a plug-in can be used to compress the signal in the digital realm, but to me, logic dictates that it just can't be the same.

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by Hot Vibrato

Okay... Here's one: Why do audio interfaces (even the expensive ones) not have channel inserts on their preamps? In my (admittedly limited) experience with recording, I've found that it is almost always beneficial to compress the signal while tracking in order to reduce the risk of transients and other peaks from clipping the signal. Not doing so will typically result in an anemic overall signal. NONE of the interfaces with built-in preamps that I've looked at allow for this. WTF?? Am I missing something? Has the idea of controlling your dynamics BEFORE the signal turns into ones and zeros fallen out of favor? I understand that a plug-in can be used to compress the signal in the digital realm, but to me, logic dictates that it just can't be the same.

Why not just connect the compressor before the audio interface? I do that very often. Inserts would increase just their price, and I can't imagine a reason why I'd would need that, but that's just me.

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by deft_bonz

Why not just connect the compressor before the audio interface? I do that very often. Inserts would increase just their price, and I can't imagine a reason why I'd would need that, but that's just me.

Because inserts go after the mic pre, and the mic pres are in the interfaces he is talking about.

I think its because all in one interfaces are the cheap option, and they don't want to add cost, to remain competitive. If you want to do it "properly" you buy the proper gear.

matt

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

Because inserts go after the mic pre, and the mic pres are in the interfaces he is talking about.

True, haven't realised that.

[Helge]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

I think its because all in one interfaces are the cheap option,

matt

Is a ULN-8 or Prism Orpheus a cheap all in one option ???
I think Hot Vibrato has a good point. Cheers

[Hardtoe]

Originally Posted by Hot Vibrato

Okay... Here's one: Why do audio interfaces (even the expensive ones) not have channel inserts on their preamps? In my (admittedly limited) experience with recording, I've found that it is almost always beneficial to compress the signal while tracking in order to reduce the risk of transients and other peaks from clipping the signal. Not doing so will typically result in an anemic overall signal. NONE of the interfaces with built-in preamps that I've looked at allow for this. WTF?? Am I missing something? Has the idea of controlling your dynamics BEFORE the signal turns into ones and zeros fallen out of favor? I understand that a plug-in can be used to compress the signal in the digital realm, but to me, logic dictates that it just can't be the same.

The Apogee Ensemble has inserts on the mic pres (the first 2 of 4 anyway)

BTW - although tracking with a comp can be "just the thing" it is hardly a must with 24bit recording.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Hot Vibrato

Okay... Here's one: Why do audio interfaces (even the expensive ones) not have channel inserts on their preamps? In my (admittedly limited) experience with recording, I've found that it is almost always beneficial to compress the signal while tracking in order to reduce the risk of transients and other peaks from clipping the signal. Not doing so will typically result in an anemic overall signal. NONE of the interfaces with built-in preamps that I've looked at allow for this. WTF?? Am I missing something? Has the idea of controlling your dynamics BEFORE the signal turns into ones and zeros fallen out of favor? I understand that a plug-in can be used to compress the signal in the digital realm, but to me, logic dictates that it just can't be the same.

I agree with you but I think it is a different market. The kind of people who like to track with hardware generally use stand-alone preamps and have a patch bay.

[Hot Vibrato]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

I think its because all in one interfaces are the cheap option, and they don't want to add cost, to remain competitive. If you want to do it "properly" you buy the proper gear.

matt

I guess I'm doing it as "properly" as my budget will allow... I've recently been shopping for some gear. My goal was to have enough mics, preamps, compressors, and tracks to be able to record my 3-piece band "live" - not necessarily on the gig, but with all of us playing at the same time. I also wanted to have at least a couple of good sounding tube preamps.

I think I wound up with a decent front end without spending too much money - I found a good deal on a used MOTU 896HD ($415), and on a used Focusrite Platinum OctoPre LE ($200). I also splurged on a UA 4-710d, and a few decent compressors and mics. I bought the OctoPre to solve the problem I was complaining about - I'm using those preamps, then compression, and then line in to the MOTU. Sounds good so far. The 4-710d has four preamps with compression, plus four line inputs. It connects to the MOTU via an ADAT optical cable and it sounds AWESOME!

I still think it would be nice if the pre's on the MOTU unit had channel inserts, but the signal from the OctoPre seems quiet enough, and the tone is not bad, especially for the money.

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by Helge

Is a ULN-8 or Prism Orpheus a cheap all in one option ???

yes, for this quality. Compare the price of these unites to buying Prism converters and a range of preamps separately..

I agree that more units should offer this functionality, it can't be that hard to do..

m

[Chris_455]

Since pro tools hd sees appogee symphony io as hd io is it possible to use the together?

[Helge]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

yes, for this quality. Compare the price of these unites to buying Prism converters and a range of preamps separately..

I agree that more units should offer this functionality, it can't be that hard to do..

m

Ok now I understand
"doin it properly" has not much to do with the priceclass.
So now - more inserts please!
cheers