Who has used Crown PZMs on a closed lid piano? Any other suggestions?

[panhandler]

I'll be recording and mixing 30 (!) small jazz combos over three weeks in April. Its set up in a sort of festival style arrangement where I preset stations for each instrument and each group comes goes to their particular spot, we have a brief level and headphone check then they jam out several tunes.
Isolation concerns make closing the piano lid a necessity. I am looking for alternatives to my piano micing setup that has included in the past a pair of 414s, or Audix scx 25s, and I have even tried some beta 91s. I have gotten some ok results, but with each set I felt I had to EQ much more than I would like to get a natural, smooth and spacious sound. Its a midrange knife fight in there with that lid down! Hence maybe the Crown PZMs taped to the underside of the lid? Do they sound somewhat natural in this configuration?

Any other suggestions would be welcome really as I'll have sometime to do some tests and shoot outs ahead of time.

[mixerguy]

earthworks has a new option.... check it out...

[gsilbers]

wish i had pix but ill try explain


take duct tape and cut a small peace you can put in between the skeleton of the piano.
just a little... enough to place a akg 414 resting on it. like a hammock for the 414.

do it one near the bass and other in higher mids.

wont screw the piano nor the mics.

you can close the piano all the way.

[Sqye]

.
excellent - should work fine. you can also use the radio shack pzm's...

excellent isolation...you may have to move them around inside -
depends on the instrument, player, and source material.

you can also place them outside, and along the bottom, etc. but i'd def. start inside.

they can be sensitive to dynamic material - so you might want to check your sig path,
and make sure any dedicated tracking pre's / comps / eq /, etc. aren't over.

you may also have to eq a bit in the mix -
but there will be a lot of data across the spectrum there - so it shouldn't be an issue.

you can do some fun imaging stuff in the mix, as well,
if you have dedicated....[right / left] = [bass / treble].... (or whatever config.).

but i trust you'll be happy - it can be one of the best ways to go for
great isolation in a live ensemble context - especially for louder jazz, latin jazz, rock, big band, etc.
.

[Han]

The RS PZM's will do a more than good job, but the grand piano is a very dynamic instrument. What I've done is this: a small piece of round wood like the shape of an AA battery with two copper nails in it. The wires of a 9volt battery pack adaptor soldered to the nails. Connect te battery and tape it to the battery holder/switch thing with duct tape. The mic can handle a much higher SPL level now and don't worry, it can handle even a 23 volt photogear kind of battery.

Succes with the recordings, if you put a pair of RS PZM's to the lid you'll have to boost a little hig mid and that's all.

Have fun!

[panhandler]

Thanks for suggestions!

they can be sensitive to dynamic material - so you might want to check your sig path,
and make sure any dedicated tracking pre's / comps / eq /, etc. aren't over.

Sqye, are you saying just to leave plenty of headroom in the signal chain? Definitely. Some groups will come in and play pretty, soft mellow ballads but the next will pound the dfegad of of it.

[Sqye]

.
yes.

recording 101, but just saying the mics are a bit sensitive,
and once mounted so close to the action (no pun intended) in the piano,
you can get some undesirable dirt in the recording if you're not careful -

....from weird proximity buildup in overtones inside the piano,
in addition to the standard high spls from the hammer whacking.

again, recording 101 - i'm sure you're already taking this into consideration.

OTOH - pzms have a very weird distinctive distortion sound when they clip,
which you may actually LIKE

sort of a combination of digi and analog clipping, to my ears anyway.
maybe it's some kind of anomaly from the sound of hammer artifacts, etc.

since i'm much more of a musician than a scientist,
i don't know what's going on inside the mics to make me hear this.
.

[panhandler]

Sqye, Cool. Thanks for the heads up.

[travisbrown]

PZM under a closed piano lid all the time when playing live. Never had any complaints.

Placement will depend on whether you want to do mono or stereo.