SM7B Paired with Neve Portico 5012 or Great River Me-1V

[Tom Hakala]

did you already see this?

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-mu...-shootout.html

but you should keep in mind those were separate takes. So it's not scientific, but gives you an idea.
If you are considering Portico purely for vocal application, then there's 5016, 5015 (pre+comp), 5032 (pre+eq).

[TRA]

I've used an SM7b with everything from the pres in a Tascam FW1884, GT Brick, Digi002, SCA N72, GT Vipre, and a few others. I've loved how it sounded every time no matter what pre was used.

[blizz]

Originally Posted by Tom Hakala

did you already see this?

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-mu...-shootout.html

but you should keep in mind those were separate takes. So it's not scientific, but gives you an idea.
If you are considering Portico purely for vocal application, then there's 5016, 5015 (pre+comp), 5032 (pre+eq).

Yep i've seen/heard it. The portico had silk switched on and different mics are used so it didn't help much.

[Dan Kennedy]

Take it for what it's worth, but I agree with TRA...

It's the voice and the mic, the pre just isn't that important.

I know which one I'd pick, but if somebody gave me a Portico I wouldn't bitch either.

[getreel]

I use my SM7b with a ME- 1NV all the time and it's freaking fantastic! I love that combination so much, I can't tell you. I've used many vocal mics before and the SM7b sounds every bit as good as any top dollar LDC when used with a quality pre. Can't say much about the Portico as I've never used one.

[blizz]

Looks like the most popular match is the GR =D

[Tom Hakala]

Originally Posted by Dan Kennedy

Take it for what it's worth, but I agree with TRA...

It's the voice and the mic, the pre just isn't that important.

I know which one I'd pick, but if somebody gave me a Portico I wouldn't bitch either.

Dan,

great to hear this from you. You could be telling us how much a night and day difference a preamp can make. Of course there's subtle differences, but nothing that's like "wow I can even hear it on my crappy laptop speakers". The source and the choice of a mic and placement is there before the preamp.

[GeorgeJ]

Not trying to hi-jack the thread - really!
I just got a sm7b this week and running it through my only pre - a Joe Meek TwinQ. It sounds good. So hearing about the high end is of real interest.

I was worried about the "not enough gain thing" but the Meek seems to drive it. Using it now for spoken word stuff (readings, podcasts) going to try some singing this weekend (male/acoustic guitar and female - pop). The settings on the pre are - gain right below the 50 and the makeup gain to +12 on the compressor and the output gain to +4 - So by the numbers it adds up to +65ish.

After playing with this set up awhile I'm planning to rent some something like a GR or a Pacifica before I whip out the plastic. Anyway I'm real happy with the sm7b and thanks for the info.

George

[A LaMere]

Originally Posted by Dan Kennedy

Take it for what it's worth, but I agree with TRA...

It's the voice and the mic, the pre just isn't that important.

I know which one I'd pick, but if somebody gave me a Portico I wouldn't bitch either.

hahaha... Agreed. Either is going to sound good.

"The Outlaw" here: www.myspace.com/aaronlameremusic

Vocals are more "folk" than "rock" ... but recorded a couple of weeks ago...
Through an sm7 microphone and a GRNV preamp....

[thermos]

I have a 5012 (selling i the classifieds, shameless bump), and an SM7B. They work great together. The Portico pre to my ears is smoother up top than the Great River, which has a little more hair but has been harsh on sources in the past (in my room anyway). Both are great though with that mic.

[reflixtinian]

Originally Posted by Dan Kennedy

Take it for what it's worth, but I agree with TRA...

It's the voice and the mic, the pre just isn't that important.

I know which one I'd pick, but if somebody gave me a Portico I wouldn't bitch either.

That wasn't exactly slutty....

Hey Dan, nice to meet you . i got a question for you:

I own a 500NV pre and i love the DI , but got noisy , it cracks and pops like a demaged tube amp (just when i plug a guitar or bass) and the vu's get crazzy too!!

The mic input works nicely, no noise.

Do you think that te DI problem will potentially afect the rest of the preamp circuits somehow? Should i stop using my 500NV ?

Best regards

[Chas3]

I have both units and like the sound of the SM7b with a GR NV. But on my voice, which is soft, I have to crank both the amp gain and the output almost to max to get a decent signal.

I'm better suited to a condenser mic.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by blizz

Here's my "planned" chain:-
SM7B --> Portico/GR/RNP ---> Echo Interface ---> PC

The SM7-Portico combination is terrific.

The RNP doesn't belong in this discussion.

You should really try the SM7 through an AEA TRP if you can. The huge, clean gain in this pre really reveals dynamic mics beautifully. Even a 57 really seems to come a little bit alive with it.

JSL

[blizz]

How much is the AEA TRP retailing for?

[Tom Hakala]

Originally Posted by jslevin

The RNP doesn't belong in this discussion.

yes it does

[jslevin]

What, are you the RNP's mom or something?

The ME-1NV, Portico and TRP are all high-end, boutique pres.

The RNP is a glorified Symetrix 302, only not as reliable.

JSL

[thermos]

I am also not a fan of the Rnp fwiw. I was bored the second I turned it on, every time I used it, and happily sold it.

[blizz]

Originally Posted by jslevin

What, are you the RNP's mom or something?
JSL

Lol.. So RNP is outta the league?

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by blizz

Lol.. So RNP is outta the league?

Oh, the RNP, the RNP, the RNP ... okay, this is going stray way off-topic, but since you asked and you're the OP ...

Here's the deal with the RNP. A few years back, FMR came out with the RNC. And the RNC is, let's be honest, a damned near miraculous product, a stereo compressor that's more than serviceable even in high-end environments ... for $175? It's hard to believe even after several years.

At the same time, there was something of a vacuum in the low-end preamp market, that is, there wasn't much that's particularly good that's also pretty damned cheap, no next logical step up from cheap small-format mixers (like Mackie) known to have okay preamps, and the Symetrix stuff was not well known.

Into this breach, FMR released the RNP, and it received in many respects the full support of dealers like Mercenary, one of the original RNC boosters. And so for the many people here who tend to get swept up in the winds of every trendy new item that gets talked about on GearSlutz, the RNP became a natural cheap preamp to purchase, and even more natural to recommend. An orthodoxy took hold that the RNP was the obvious choice, even a very good choice.

But there's a few problems with that orthodoxy, at least in my opinion:

1. Unlike the RNC, the RNP is not at all miraculous.
2. Unlike the RNC, the RNP is not $175. It's $475.
3. There always were other decent but obscure options, like the Symetrix 202 and 302.
4. There are now more options than ever, in particular with so many outboard preamps being released (and many later discontinued) this decade, readily available as used.

Basically, there are a lot of options for buying two preamps under $500. Among those options, the RNP is one of the most expensive, and it's just not very impressive. Unlike the RNC, a very solid choice at a miraculous price, the RNP is merely an adequate, overpriced choice. Yet a lot of people around here not only bought it, they bought into it, bought into the idea that it was a superior preamp in this price range, bought into the fantasy that they'd purchased a preamp that was in some way borderline boutique.

Well, it ain't. It's not clear to me how many preamps have been tried by the people who recommend the RNP -- many of them may not even own the RNP, it's just a knee-jerk response around here like a lot of things. Good, cheap preamp? Buy an RNP! Buy an RNC and an RNP! And buy the FunkLogic custom rack thing! You must! It's the cheap preamp that Mercenary sells, so you can still feel like you're still in the club even if you have no money! Why ask why? And why try anything? Anybody want to upload some clips?

I don't recall anybody who really knows high-end pres trying to claim that the RNP was one of them. At best it was promoted as a high-quality choice for the low-end market, sort of the high-end of the low-end. Often praise for the RNC has been confused for or conflated with the RNP, but they are not the same.

So no, the RNP does not have a place in a discussion with the Great River, which is possibly the most celebrated product of the entire vintage-inspired-modern-design preamp genre. Or with the TRP, commissioned by ribbon mic guru Wes Dooley to be designed by Fred Forssell, whose own ForssellTech preamps are universally admired. Or the Portico, the flagship product designed by Rupert Neve -- I mean, seriously, designed by Rupert Neve, I would think on GearSlutz of all places this wouldn't need more explanation.

So that's the deal with the RNP -- my version of it, anyway. It's solid, not impressive. It is not any better than a Symetrix 302, and it's no match for a used Presonus MP20. It's just kind of ... there.

JSL

[Tom Hakala]

Originally Posted by blizz

Lol.. So RNP is outta the league?

don't listen to us Blizz. Best thing to do is try stuff out yourself. And really listen to it. Blind testing is the most eye opening thing in my opinion. If you know what you are listening to, it's then much easier to think "oh this one is thicker, this one has the clarity, this is all muddy". I have been there. I have said that preamps make a night and day difference-- "when I got my x-preamp it definitely is better than my y-preamp, i could hear the difference in a heart beat." But when I was challenged to do blind testing which had the same exact take on both preamps, matched levels... I was very surprised that the difference wasn't that big. In many cases you really had to concentrate to hear the difference. On these boards you see people pimping their latest purchase... "i had the RNP and I got the GR and I could immediately hear how my vocals sounded so much better.. sold the RNP because all my vocals sounded thin and harsh through it".

All I'm saying is that if you'll get the RNP and then later get the GR, you will probably be disappointed because there's just not that much a difference and you may start to wonder "what's up with the high end hype?" I'm not saying there's no difference, but the difference is very subtle. Not a night and day as many tend to claim here.

The best thing about high end gear is that it gives you the confidence.

... and remember not to listen to us.

peace!

[thermos]

Thin and harsh aren't ways I would describe the RNP. Its actually kind of warm. I would say more like boring , and not a lot of clarity.

[Fred]

...to be designed by Fred Forssell, who designed the first Millennia preamps...

Actually, no I did NOT design the HV-3 preamp. The first IC opamp based mic preamp that I designed was the AEA TRP.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by Tom Hakala

don't listen to us Blizz. Best thing to do is try stuff out yourself.

I couldn't agree more. At the same time, there's nothing wrong with narrowing the field based on outside input. There are dozens of options out there, and we can't try every last thing out there.

Blind testing is the most eye opening thing in my opinion. If you know what you are listening to, it's then much easier to think "oh this one is thicker, this one has the clarity, this is all muddy". I have been there. I have said that preamps make a night and day difference-- "when I got my x-preamp it definitely is better than my y-preamp, i could hear the difference in a heart beat." But when I was challenged to do blind testing which had the same exact take on both preamps, matched levels... I was very surprised that the difference wasn't that big.

First, I respectfully disagree that blind testing is the best way to test. These devices are nothing but tools used to do a job, and in my view no test means anything other than real-world use of those tools. Sitting there listening intently to compare two different things isn't real-world use -- didn't Bob Katz write that we lose any sense of reference within three seconds anyway? -- and it may not tell you anything about what will give you great results more quickly, more consistently and with more flexibility -- how tracks will sit in the mix -- which I think are the only things that matter.

I think most good engineers will tell you, they know right away whether a preamp (or most other things) is usable or not usable, like it or don't like it, love it or don't love it. More detailed evaluations take a lot more use to figure out.

Second, not everyone is you. Some people hear the differences more clearly, or maybe the differences just bother some people more than others even if they aren't really significant.

All I'm saying is that if you'll get the RNP and then later get the GR, you will probably be disappointed because there's just not that much a difference and you may start to wonder "what's up with the high end hype?" I'm not saying there's no difference, but the difference is very subtle. Not a night and day as many tend to claim here.

Again, not everyone is you. To people who are more sensitive to differences among preamps, the RNP and GR might seem profoundly different.

The best thing about high end gear is that it gives you the confidence.

Um, no, again, not everyone is you. I find that outstanding engineers can get good results on almost any decent equipment. High-end gear gives them excellent results with great consistency, and is easier to use and more reliable, and often comes with outstanding support from the manufacturer. Those are the best things about high-end gear. My personal view is that if you need high-end gear to have confidence, the high-end gear is unlikely to do you any good.

JSL

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by Fred

Actually, no I did NOT design the HV-3 preamp. The first IC opamp based mic preamp that I designed was the AEA TRP.

I didn't mention the HV-3, but I removed the reference anyway. Sorry, but at least I spelled your name right, that's something, right?

JSL