Birch vs. Maple Drum Kits

[Doublehelix]

Probably covered a million times, but the search function turned up so many hits that had nothing directly to do with my topic.

Buying an inexpensive PDP kit for my son, and debating between the Birch and Maple kits. He plays mostly rock, and classic rock type of styles.

What differences can I expect to hear between the two?

Thanks!

[Diegel]

Birch = shorter sustain less bass
Maple = more sustain more bass

Some guys actually use a mix of birch for rack toms and maple for floor toms and bass drum

[RedWallStudio]

In that price range if you were to have the exact same kit, one in Birch, one in Maple... you would likely not hear any difference at all. IMHO a snare is probably the place where you may hear the difference in wood... but even that is doubtful

[tamakid1292]

I love birch. In fact before you go out and buy a cheap kit if your going to get a birch kit. Gretsch makes a cheap birch kit and it sound great. Its around 500 i think and somtimes they have a deal where you get a free tom. IM pretty sure its called the mbirch check it out.

[allencollins]

more crack with maple. Brighter. My drummer has a maple kit
everything kicks ass but the kick drum.

The snare and toms are amongst the best sounding I've recorded.
The kick had to be replaced with a birch one for the last session we did.
To get more bottom

[HeavyG]

...music is like art for your ears. Noone can tell you what sounds good. Only you know that...most of the drum companies will tell you maple is the best and they are quite good but let your ears decide.

Now on the tonal characteristics of Birch vs. Maple...you will generally see a brighter, snappier attack from birch drums with a quicker decay (less resonance and sustain). Maple has a warmer overall tone character with more resonance. Maple tends to be the high end of most drum lines...thin maple shells (thinner equals more resonance), good bearing edges and low mass lugs (with minimal shell contact). You will pay a lot more for a good maple kit (I have a small boutique brand called GMS that was way too much money)...so I would argue that birch is a better value.

[HeavyG]

Originally Posted by allencollins

more crack with maple. Brighter. My drummer has a maple kit
everything kicks ass but the kick drum.

The snare and toms are amongst the best sounding I've recorded.
The kick had to be replaced with a birch one for the last session we did.
To get more bottom

Wow...I hear the opposite. I hear more warmth and a darker tone from maple. I hear a much brighter, snappier attack from birch (or "crack" as you would put it). I would say that maple sounds a bit louder because of it's resonant qualities (due to the thinner shells)...an un-muffled maple kit is like Darth Vader playing lead guitar for Metallica on the deck of the Death Star. Big, beautiful TONE...

[HeavyG]

Yamaha's Recording Custom drums are a studio standard and were once the very top of their line...beautiful drums...great tone...and easy to work with from an engineering point of view because their BIRCH shells offer shorter, crisper attack (and don't reverberate for days like some maple shells). They were designed with the studio in mind...so don't be afraid of birch...as you can see, they were once the king of the hill (MAPLE now has the marketing buzz).

[Grumblefoot]

Originally Posted by tamakid1292

I love birch. In fact before you go out and buy a cheap kit if your going to get a birch kit. Gretsch makes a cheap birch kit and it sound great. Its around 500 i think and somtimes they have a deal where you get a free tom. IM pretty sure its called the mbirch check it out.

The Mbirch line is made by Mapex and are as good as the PDP's
Most of the Major companies make a birch line as well as the maples, the birches tend to be less expensive in price. I own a birch kit and love it wouldn't trade it for anything. They sound great mic'ed up and are easy to get the sounds you want in the studio.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by HeavyG

Wow...I hear the opposite. I hear more warmth and a darker tone from maple. I hear a much brighter, snappier attack from birch (or "crack" as you would put it). I would say that maple sounds a bit louder because of it's resonant qualities (due to the thinner shells)...an un-muffled maple kit is like Darth Vader playing lead guitar for Metallica on the deck of the Death Star. Big, beautiful TONE...

Maple is bright in general. It's too dense to be 'warm'. In general, porous woods like mahogany + rosewood are warm.

In general woods that drums are made of are less porous. Even particle board which most cheapo drums are made are is just laminated maple plywoods.

Birch is a cheap wood but it's easy to shape with steam That's why they use it. 9 time out of 10 drums are laminated anyway hence the word 'ply'. Not much warmth in plywood. I made a gtr out of plywood
in higschool wood shop. Sounded pretty bad

I have to say you are the first person Ive ever heard say they though drums sounded 'warm'.

Bonham played plastic/acrylic drums for the second half of ZEP So I'm not sure the wood even matters. You wouldn't think drums could sound good not made of wood. But Bonham did it. But then again he's Bonham

[HeavyG]

Originally Posted by allencollins

Maple is bright in general. It's too dense to be 'warm'. In general, porous woods like mahogany + rosewood are warm.

In general woods that drums are made of are less porous. Even particle board which most cheapo drums are made are is just laminated maple plywoods.

Birch is a cheap wood but it's easy to shape with steam That's why they use it. 9 time out of 10 drums are laminated anyway hence the word 'ply'. Not much warmth in plywood. I made a gtr out of plywood
in higschool wood shop. Sounded pretty bad

I have to say you are the first person Ive ever heard say they though drums sounded 'warm'.

Bonham played plastic/acrylic drums for the second half of ZEP So I'm not sure the wood even matters. You wouldn't think drums could sound good not made of wood. But Bonham did it. But then again he's Bonham

Are you a drummer? Have you studied tonal characteristics...you probably should before you give advice. Not sure where you are getting your info...they use these specific woods because of their tonal characteristics more so than the cost. They would use a turd if it sounded good...

From the DW site (they even use the term warm to describe maple): "Maple shells naturally have long and slow sustains ratios causing a warm and resonant tone throughout the drum. The addition of reinforcing hoops to maple shells provide strength, definition, and focus the overall sound. All reinforcing rings vary in size depending on the drums dimension. Birchwood shells tend to contain opposite tonal properties from maple. Birch naturally has short, fast sustain ratios causing a higher pitch and greater attack velocity. "

From Pearl's site: (Maple stronger low and mids for warmth...Birch has boosted highs form more "cut" and shorter resonance)

Wood and Frequency Response

Maple
Slightly boosted lows with smooth mid and high frequencies for all around applications.

Birch
Boosted high frequencies, slightly reduced mids, and a good low end punch for applications requiring extra presence and cut.

Mahogany
Extremely rich low end frequencies, with beautifully smooth mids and a slight roll-off in the higher frequencies for applications requiring ultimate "bottom" and punch.

[BLueROom]

It should be noted that the room has everything to do with how your drums sound. The better the room, the more noticeable difference in the wood. It would be hard to tell the difference in a small dead room as compared to a larger live room.

[HeavyG]

Recording Custom
Birchwood Shell (and one of their top lines). Quick decay...snappier tone. Their crisp sound quality with short attack decay makes them optimal for recording situations.

Maple Custom (note again the term "warm")

All Maple Shell
Maple offers a warm sound with full sustain and outstanding projection.


Hope this helps...again, Birch is not CHEAP. Birch drums can sound amazing (Steve Gadd, Carter Beauford, Omar Hakim, Manu Katche and others have used them for years...ever hear of them?) Don't listen to the marketing hype....let your ears decide.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by HeavyG

Are you a drummer? Have you studied tonal characteristics...you probably should before you give advice. Not sure where you are getting your info...they use these specific woods because of their tonal characteristics more so than the cost. They would use a turd if it sounded good...

From the DW site (they even use the term warm to describe maple): "Maple shells naturally have long and slow sustains ratios causing a warm and resonant tone throughout the drum. The addition of reinforcing hoops to maple shells provide strength, definition, and focus the overall sound. All reinforcing rings vary in size depending on the drums dimension. Birchwood shells tend to contain opposite tonal properties from maple. Birch naturally has short, fast sustain ratios causing a higher pitch and greater attack velocity. "

From Pearl's site: (Maple stronger low and mids for warmth...Birch has boosted highs form more "cut" and shorter resonance)

Wood and Frequency Response

Maple
Slightly boosted lows with smooth mid and high frequencies for all around applications.

Birch
Boosted high frequencies, slightly reduced mids, and a good low end punch for applications requiring extra presence and cut.

Mahogany
Extremely rich low end frequencies, with beautifully smooth mids and a slight roll-off in the higher frequencies for applications requiring ultimate "bottom" and punch.

sheesh! well exuse-em-wah
They use birch cuz it's CHEAP and easier to manufacture than other hardwoods

Maple sounds brighter so me overall. Birch sounds crappy to me OVERALL
Yes I used to play drums. Though I don't have a degree in botany like you....

I wonder why the pearl web site does give the tonal characteristics of particle board and plywood? Funny, most of there drums are made from those 'exotic' woods...

I wonder why they don't use birch for electric guitars? hmmmm...

[vernier]

Maple is what all the greats used.

[RedWallStudio]

I think considering the amount of opposing opinions here already, you can go back to my original post and take it from there. IMHO, Waaaaaaaaay too much emphasis is being put on the type of wood here, where I really think that the difference between Birch and Maple is insignificant when you compare it to the other variables that affect the sound:

1. THE PLAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. The Heads (type and age)
3. The Tuning
4. The Room
5. The mics/pre's/comps/eq's blah blah blah
6. The engineer

[RedWallStudio]

Originally Posted by vernier

Maple is what all the greats used.

....because back in those days, Maple was plentiful... which obviously is not the case any more. And the fact that "all the greats" used maple does not answer this posters' question at all. Anyone that swears that Maple somehow single-handedly makes a drum kit sound better than birtch has skewed their own perception of the sound in an effort to justify the fact that they spent a ton of money on the kit.

[vernier]

Birch: a more modern, scooped, already eq'd sound. Maple, more mid-range unleashed sound.

[biggator6]

There's a place for both maple and birch - different sounds for different things, and lots of great records have been made with both. With the right heads and good tuning, you can make either work great.

That being said - a forum of drum manufacturers in an interview in the latest Modern Drummer rated wood about 4th place in 'what makes drums sound good'. They actually rated head choice, tuning, bearing edge and size above the wood - but all agreed that it had to be at least a decent layup of woods (maple, birch, poplar, etc).

If wood didn't matter, people would actually use acrylic drums. Contrary to the comment above, Bonham used them LIVE because they look cool, as well as stainless steel drums for a bit.. he always recorded with 3-ply Ludwigs (maple). If you want to hear a bad drum for recording, try acrylic.

[Nu-tra]

I prefer birch. It's almost pre Eq'ed. It just sounds good for what I am doing.

[Doublehelix]

Wow, lots of replies, and lots of conflicting information.

If you go back to my original post, I said nothing about being able to record this guys, so sorry if I gave the wrong impression. This is Gearslutz, so I guess it is natural to assume that this is case.

I am buying a drum set for my son, not for the studio, and I am not going to spend thousands of dollars on a 14 year old!

I want to keep the budget around $700-800, which means that I am not going to get a lot of choice, most of the shells in this price range are probably built in the same factory overseas!

I was just looking for some general advice as to the difference between the woods, which it looks I have now. I am not a drummer, hence the question.

Of course I know what sounds good when a kit comes into my studio, and believe it or not, I have actually become pretty proficient at changing heads and tuning, BUT that is not what I was asking.

I don't know that I have ever asked a drummer what wood his shells were made from, although I will certainly pay more attention now.

Thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it. I think I am going to go for the maple kit, it is only $100 more than the birch kit.

[ImJohn]

Originally Posted by RedWallStudio

I think considering the amount of opposing opinions here already, you can go back to my original post and take it from there. IMHO, Waaaaaaaaay too much emphasis is being put on the type of wood here, where I really think that the difference between Birch and Maple is insignificant when you compare it to the other variables that affect the sound:

1. THE PLAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. The Heads (type and age)
3. The Tuning
4. The Room
5. The mics/pre's/comps/eq's blah blah blah
6. The engineer

+1! Although I'd insert:

3b. the kind of stick/mallets/etc used
3c. the shell's bearing edge shape etc

I seriously think shell resonance gets WAY more attention than it deserves.

[A LaMere]

Originally Posted by Doublehelix

Wow, lots of replies, and lots of conflicting information.

If you go back to my original post, I said nothing about being able to record this guys, so sorry if I gave the wrong impression. This is Gearslutz, so I guess it is natural to assume that this is case.

I am buying a drum set for my son, not for the studio, and I am not going to spend thousands of dollars on a 14 year old!

I want to keep the budget around $700-800, which means that I am not going to get a lot of choice, most of the shells in this price range are probably built in the same factory overseas!

I was just looking for some general advice as to the difference between the woods, which it looks I have now. I am not a drummer, hence the question.

Of course I know what sounds good when a kit comes into my studio, and believe it or not, I have actually become pretty proficient at changing heads and tuning, BUT that is not what I was asking.

I don't know that I have ever asked a drummer what wood his shells were made from, although I will certainly pay more attention now.

Thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it. I think I am going to go for the maple kit, it is only $100 more than the birch kit.

ehe..

Yep, that's how it works here at the slutz...
We're probably all guilty of taking a thread where it wasn't originally intended to go at some point or another..

FWIW, at this price point I think even saying that they're made of "birch" or "maple" is a bit of a stretch... I'd say.. go hit each one and just pick the one that sounds best to your ears... or to your sons ears. I'd also look at other things like the makeup of the included hardware and just quality of the drums themselves before looking at what kind of wrap that they have on the exterior...

I've been thinking of doing the same thing... buying a cheap kit for my son...
I'm also unsure of what to get and probably looking in the same approx price range..
I considered a Ludwig Vistalite kit a little while back... I guess we'll see.

I'm convinced that you can buy a cheap, decent sounding kit these days that will still last for awhile...

Best of luck with it!

[vernier]

Then theres construction ...big sound difference between 3 ply or what we have today, 6, 8, 9, 10 ..etc.

[ImJohn]

Either will be fine DH! You often find that inexpensive drums are made with a combination off woods too, maple or birch with a layer of poplar or basswood etc.

I've always thought the inexpensive Tama kits are a good value and also the Yamaha hipgig Jr sets can sound really great too even though they are inexpensive and small. I haven't used any Pacific drums but I'm sure they are a great value and I've always heard good things about them.

What ever you get I'd strongly suggest ditching ALL the heads that come with it and replacing with some good Remo, Evans, Aquarian or Ludwig heads etc.

For example:
Tom batter: Remo Emperor weight (clear, coated or Renissance)
Tom Reso: Remo Ambassador clear (but maybe an emperor or pinstripe on the floor tom)
Bass batter: Evans EQ4
Bass reso: Remo Emperor
Snare batter: Remo Ambassador (coated or Renissance)
Snare reso: Remo Diplomat

Try not to skimp on the cymbals. Good ones are expensive but can be a good long term investment, especially the ride and hihats.

Best of luck!

[elroy jetson]

Originally Posted by Doublehelix

Wow, lots of replies, and lots of conflicting information.

If you go back to my original post, I said nothing about being able to record this guys, so sorry if I gave the wrong impression. This is Gearslutz, so I guess it is natural to assume that this is case.

I am buying a drum set for my son, not for the studio, and I am not going to spend thousands of dollars on a 14 year old!

I want to keep the budget around $700-800, which means that I am not going to get a lot of choice, most of the shells in this price range are probably built in the same factory overseas!

I was just looking for some general advice as to the difference between the woods, which it looks I have now. I am not a drummer, hence the question.

Of course I know what sounds good when a kit comes into my studio, and believe it or not, I have actually become pretty proficient at changing heads and tuning, BUT that is not what I was asking.

I don't know that I have ever asked a drummer what wood his shells were made from, although I will certainly pay more attention now.

Thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it. I think I am going to go for the maple kit, it is only $100 more than the birch kit.

There has definitely been a lot of bad info in this thread so far. Maple does in fact have a warmer more mellow tone than birch, which still has good lows but a bit more in the top end attack range. But in the end the sound of the drums has a lot less to do with the wood than it does with the quality of the construction of the shells themselves. probably the most important factor is the bearing edge of the shell. Cheaper kits will often have flaws in the bearing edge which means the head doesn't seat perfectly on the bearing edge and it doesn't vibrate fully and evenly. Also higher end kits will have better hardware on the shells and finer details like that. Birch kits are cheaper than maple in general because of the cost of importing the wood from different areas of the world, not at all because one is better sounding or easier to work with than the other. birch kits are every bit as good as maple kits (if all other factors are equal) they are just different sounding woods.

But probably the biggest influence on the sound of a drum is the head selection and the tuning. i have heard many $600 kits that sound way better than other $2000 kits because they were tuned properly. So keep that in mind.

As for kits in your price range that i would personally recommend from experience:

Mapex M Birch: First choice for this price range. SOund awesome, usually includes a free tom or snare drum. includes hardware. CHeck it out

Mapex Pro M: Same as m birch accept maple. also very good

Gretsch Catalina Club mod: mahogany shells. Same story: good price, sound great blah blah blah

Gretch Catalina Maple
Yamaha Stage custom: Birch
Yamaha Tour Custom: MAple

Lots of great kits out there. Those are all i can recommend personally. all of the kits will probably need new heads as stock heads are usually shite. I recommend evans g2 top g1 reso, or remo emperor top, ambassador reso ( both are 2 ply top 1 ply reso, whatever brand you like better) and you'll need cymbals too. Theres a company called Dream Cymbals that makes pretty good sounding cymbals for extremely low prices you should check out ( i have a dream 16" crash that stands up with my 18" Zildjian K Custom Crash and it was only $75!)

anyways i've blabbed long enough. Go buy some drums and have fun!

[elroy jetson]

here's a good link for the effects of the wood type and thickness on the sound of a drum.

Pearl - The Best Reason To Play Drums

[RobDrmz]

Originally Posted by Doublehelix

Wow, lots of replies, and lots of conflicting information.

If you go back to my original post, I said nothing about being able to record this guys, so sorry if I gave the wrong impression. This is Gearslutz, so I guess it is natural to assume that this is case.

I am buying a drum set for my son, not for the studio, and I am not going to spend thousands of dollars on a 14 year old!

I want to keep the budget around $700-800, which means that I am not going to get a lot of choice, most of the shells in this price range are probably built in the same factory overseas!

What I tell everyone who asks is: "Get yourself a good deal on a nice mid line kit (Yamaha, Pacific, DDRUM,) and then spend a lot of time and money researching:
1) CYMBALS
2) DRUM HEADS

Because a quality drum head will enhance the sound of your drum a lot. Also, GOOD cymbals really make the date.

To share some personal experience with you, last night I played a ten year old Premier birch kit and the bass player told me "You kick was shaking the stage..."

Whatever you decide - Do what dude said and use your ears, bro.

[vernier]

As a guitar player, I won't play in a band with a birch kit. I fired two drummers cuz of it.

[RedWallStudio]

Originally Posted by vernier

As a guitar player, I won't play in a band with a birch kit. I fired two drummers cuz of it.