Neve 1084 Pre Vs. Fireface800 Pre / Neumann KM184 Vs. MXL V6

[Slap Back]

I did a comparision by tracking exclusively with vintage Neve 1084 mic pres (EQ bypassed) into my Fireface 800 analog inputs, then tracking exclusively with the onboard Fireface 800 mic pres.

The drums are mono overhead/D112inside kick. The guitars are tremoverb/sm57. The bass is Sansamp Bassdriver into mic input.

I did a take with a Neumann KM184 overhead mic then a Mxl V6 overhead mic , so there are 2 takes for each preamp type

Here are 4 different tracks.

1. All tracks Neve 1084 with KM184 Overhead
2. All tracks Neve 1084 with V6 Overhead
3. All tracks RME Fireface with KM184 Overhead
4. All tracks RME Fireface with V6 Overhead

Pardon the playing
I was very surprised at the results. See if you can guess which is which

[Bierce85]

D sounds the best and A sounds the worst IMO.

[Slap Back]

I'm hearing similar results.

Anyone else? Feedback needed and welcome!

[everyday]

My preference.

D.
B.
C.
A.

[Jim Kerr]

I think A is the 800 and 184
I think B is the 1081 and the MXL
I think C is the 800 and the MXL
I think D is the 1081 and 184

How'd I do?

[Slap Back]

I'll spill the beans in two hours. More comments please!!

[bulls hit]

On headphones my preferences are
D
B
A
C

[Jim Kerr]

Originally Posted by Slap Back

I'll spill the beans in two hours. More comments please!!

2 HOURS?!!! PM me at least biotch!

[Slap Back]

Originally Posted by Jim Kerr

2 HOURS?!!! PM me at least biotch!

PM Sent

[MadGuitrst]

A. 1084+184
B. 1084+V6
C. RME+184
D. RME+V6

What do I win?

[MadGuitrst]

oooh, can I get a PM?!?!?!?

[MadGuitrst]

Here's how I heard it:

A. Round sounding, drums a little duller, less was picked up on them
B. Round sounding, more drums - sounds like a wider pattern and with more of everything, especially lows.
C. Thinner sounding, drums a little duller, less was picked up on them.
D. Thinner sounding, more drums - sounds like a wider pattern and with more of everything, especially lows.

They all sounded good.
I would guess some people would pick preamp B (meaning C&D) to sound more accurate/neutral.

Thanks for the clips!

[gracejames]

I will guess that A+C is the same mic-pre.
And B+D vice/versa.

Thanks for doing this Slapback.

[Slap Back]

Thanks for the replies

A = 1084 + KM184
B = 1084 + V6
C = Fireface + KM184
D = Fireface + V6

[MadGuitrst]

As usual, I got them all right.......

[chris carter]

D
B
C
A

I'm guessing that D/B are the LDC V6 and that A/C are the KM184 (never used a V6, but have used the KM184s). I couldn't guess on which pre's as I've never used either.

EDIT: LOL... should have looked to see the answers were posted.....

[Slap Back]

I like the sound of the V6. The KM184 is good too, but is a little flatter and boxier-more of an unhyped sound.

The 1084 tracks have a really nice qulaity. They have a "weight" and "balance" that is hard to describe. It just sounds more like a professional recording and translates better to cheap speakers.

The fireface pres are brighter, but sound somewhat ungrounded and uneven. I wonder if this has something to do with input impedance, compared to the 1084?

[gracejames]

wow..i was off, no surprise.
Maybe i was hearing the actual mic differences..then the pres.
I was impressed with the RME. Bang4buck it seems like a great solution.
I would use the RME and then the UAD 1084 for EQ. Best EQ plug imo.

[everyday]

Thank you for the test...


Well... I like the sound of low end???


T...

[pikapikapi]

can u do a vocal test with the same setup?

[Slap Back]

Originally Posted by pikapikapi

can u do a vocal test with the same setup?

Sorry, no. The 1084's are going back to the rental company today.

It was a good learning experience and worth the money and trouble.

[Slap Back]

Originally Posted by everyday

Thank you for the test...


Well... I like the sound of low end???


T...

I thought I liked D (fireface/V6) the best at first, but then after listening on multiple systems I could easily identify the richness of both 1084 tracks. Oddly, track A (1084/KM184) seems the most solid, warm and balanced to me now, although at first I thought it sounded the worst.

[Slaytex]

I use my FF800 pres on toms. That's all i'm saying!

[Sid Menon]

When I first got my lunchbox with 512s in it I compared them to my fireface pres and honestly didn't notice that much difference. A tiny bit of subtlety. Of course i'm sticking with the api, because those subtleties surely stack up differently, but with first listen I was not so impressed.
I think those fireface pres are a lot better than people give credit.
I'd say the actual source is the most important thing. A good source will sound similar/the same through either of those pres.
The FF pres are good enough to sound great with a great source IMO.

[Tom Hakala]

Originally Posted by Slap Back

I thought I liked D (fireface/V6) the best at first, but then after listening on multiple systems I could easily identify the richness of both 1084 tracks. Oddly, track A (1084/KM184) seems the most solid, warm and balanced to me now, although at first I thought it sounded the worst.

So before you read the results you liked the lowend better. And after seeing the results you thought highend was actually much better?


People usually prefer the more expensive version no matter if it's actually any better..

[mrbowes]

Clip A has a richness and weight that really gives the track some balls. Clear winner in my opinion.

[Slap Back]

Originally Posted by Tom Hakala

So before you read the results you liked the lowend better. And after seeing the results you thought highend was actually much better?


People usually prefer the more expensive version no matter if it's actually any better..

....Well, since I recorded and posted the clips, I knew what was what the whole time.
Maybe next time I'll try double blind tracking...

[vicenzajay]

Originally Posted by Sid Menon

When I first got my lunchbox with 512s in it I compared them to my fireface pres and honestly didn't notice that much difference. A tiny bit of subtlety. Of course i'm sticking with the api, because those subtleties surely stack up differently, but with first listen I was not so impressed.
I think those fireface pres are a lot better than people give credit.
I'd say the actual source is the most important thing. A good source will sound similar/the same through either of those pres.
The FF pres are good enough to sound great with a great source IMO.

Would love to see the results of a large sample group in a double blind test with just these tracks....my guess is that we would see that not many would correctly identify all that's going on here.

Your point is probably the most salient....great source captured through appropriate microphone is probably so much of the equation that any reasonably accurate and capable mic pre becomes adequate for the task...even with stacked tracks. The really smart guys seem to try to tell us again and again that the battle of preamps is a battle of inches....not yards and miles. That is unlike the original performance, the room acoustics, and the microphones...the differences between good and bad in those arenas make or break the recording in any number of ways.

Bottom line is that the FF pres actually performed really well here in company with some very stiff competition...good thing to know.

Jay

[Tom Hakala]

Originally Posted by Slap Back

....Well, since I recorded and posted the clips, I knew what was what the whole time.
Maybe next time I'll try double blind tracking...

uups sorry, my mistake

[Slap Back]

Originally Posted by Tom Hakala

uups sorry, my mistake

Its' all good!

The kick on the 1084 tracks have this defined, meaty "thwak" that appears to be missing completely on the Fireface tracks, which just kind of go "bump".

Does anyone else hear this?
What aspect of the 1084 circuit design creates that effect?
Or is it that the Fireface isn't reproducing the entire kick sound?