Albums are made for computer speakers

[eligit]

Is it just me?

It seems like whenever i hang at a friend's place their "go to" way of listening to music is on the built in speakers on their lap top.

the funny thing is that many of the new albums that come out seem to translate very well to this listening environment and the amount of detail is impressive for such a terrible set up.....but then i listen to the same album on a real system and have to turn it off after one song.

this is truly a strange thing. we are not even talking about ipods here....this is lap top computer built in speakers......is this the new standard listening environment? is this what mastering houses do the "final check" on?

[R3k]

I think that's one the reasons for today's brickwall / kill dynamics mastering.

Sure works better for my macbook pro laptop speakers.. overly dynamic music kills them... often one of my own unmastered tracks (which btw, helps to diagnose problems).

Take that blitz squashed music to a half decent system, and it kills your ears....

I agree.

It's funny how we go backwards as we go forwards.

[DamnYankee]

Originally Posted by eligit

Is it just me?

It seems like whenever i hang at a friend's place their "go to" way of listening to music is on the built in speakers on their lap top.

the funny thing is that many of the new albums that come out seem to translate very well to this listening environment and the amount of detail is impressive for such a terrible set up.....but then i listen to the same album on a real system and have to turn it off after one song.

this is truly a strange thing. we are not even talking about ipods here....this is lap top computer built in speakers......is this the new standard listening environment? is this what mastering houses do the "final check" on?

No, it's not you. I have an all-tube McIntosh preamp/amp system running into some nice 4 way speakers with 15" woofers and after 2 minutes, I have to turn it off due to hearing fatigue and ear ringing. FM radio is just as bad.

Back when I was a kid, yeah, we all carried around those crappy plastic Zenith transistor radios with the single ear piece for portability, but when we got home, we all had nice Hi-Fi stereos to listen to.

Today, the crappy plastic Zenith transistor radios have been replaced with mp3 players and at home, the nice Hi-Fi systems have been replaced with crappy digital systems which need subwoofers to boost the bass. Today 98% of consumer stereos are crap and cheap. And the average Joe can't afford premium high end audio. It's really a shame because I know alot of today's music could sound really, really great. *off soapbox*

[heisleyamor]

all of my friends like music and quality, so they would never listen to music through crappy laptop speakers. My girlfriend (who knows very little about sound quality, etc.) even has a decent pair of speakers for her laptop. At least buy some 100 dollar speakers to plug into your headphone jack...

[Bierce85]

What I don't understand is this:

If the average joe doesnt feel it's necessary to buy a decent system and is happy listening on his laptop or cheap desktop PC speakers, why bother to change a mix based on how it sounds on those things?

It's not like as he's listening he's thinking "man, that snare is really poppin', not sure I like where the vocal is sitting, though". He's just listening to the song.

In my experience different consumer playback systems sound so colored and different from each other it would be impossible to really mix with all that in mind. Also in my experience, most of those systems seem to just homogenize everything anyway. I used to have computer speakers to reference with but quickly realized they were just pushing their own sound on what was playing through them, not showing problems.

I do have a pair of mini radioshack "realistic" speakers from the 80's you'd have to pry out of my dead hands. Those things tell you more about the bass then anything I've ever heard.

[Watersound]

It's hard to have it both ways- usually if it sounds great on my Macbook speakers it sucks on a real system. Every single one of my friends listens to music on their computer except when driving, in which case they hook up their horrific sounding Ipods. Get used to it- people don't give a rat's behind about quality, those days are gone and probably won't ever be coming back.

[ktf]

Originally Posted by Watersound

It's hard to have it both ways- usually if it sounds great on my Macbook speakers it sucks on a real system. Every single one of my friends listens to music on their computer except when driving, in which case they hook up their horrific sounding Ipods. Get used to it- people don't give a rat's behind about quality, those days are gone and probably won't ever be coming back.

It all will make dieing much easier - Greatful dead.

[centurymantra]

A lot of people like to march out the tired mantra stating that quality doesn't matter cuz..."it's about the music, man!". This is undeniably true...to a certain degree. That being said, folks that only listen on laptop speakers are not music fans as far as I'm concerned. They are simply fans of background noise...or EXTREMELY passive listeners. Like someone mentioned, if you can't be bothered to at least get a set of cheap speakers to plug into the headphone jack...well, that's a wee bit lame. I strongly feel that caring about quality IS caring about the music. There are a certain segment of audiophiles that take this to an extreme, but there is also a happy middle ground.

[Bierce85]

Originally Posted by centurymantra

folks that only listen on laptop speakers are not music fans as far as I'm concerned. They are simply fans of background noise...or EXTREMELY passive listeners.

I know a few people who listen on laptop speakers who are pretty "in to" music, they're just broke so they don't buy anything. These same people go to bars at night and spend $30 on beer and food but are always "broke", but I digress...

[biggator6]

EXTREMELY passive listeners

I really believe that the vast majority of listeners now ARE passive listeners. Nobody sits down to listen to an ALBUM in its entirety anymore - they make playlists.. of single tracks that they downloaded in low quality from itunes/bittorrent/wherever - or they put it on random and forget about it.

For most people - I think music IS just background noise now. If we go on that assumption, it explains a TON.
-full CD sales down, itunes single sales growing
-devaluation of music, people think it should be free
-filesharing rampant, mostly in low-quality
-ipods and laptop speakers are the normal playback environment
-loudness wars

If you look at all of those common conversations with the assumption that most listeners are just passively consuming music as background noise - it makes a lot more sense than if you think about it assuming that most listeners are you.
</rant>

[Slipperman]

I have been making every single "big picture" and "instrument pocket and focus adjustment" for mix finals on tiny iMac speakers at my reception desk for over 5 years now.

Takes 10-15 minutes max.

Always seems to work back in the control room as well.

Rarely regret it.

Go figure.

SM.

[A LaMere]

Nope.... albums aren't made for computer speakers...

Nope... mastering engineers quite obviously don't do thier final checks on laptop speakers... Though, as a cross reference, having a tiny pair of crap computer speakers is a decent and cheap idea imo.

Music is not dead... it's still alive.. even when it's being played over laptop speakers. These days, you have to look for it... and that isn't hard... it's just most people these days are spending their time looking for things on craigslist... or on youtube... or adding friends on myspace... or posting threads here at Gearslutz...

[Keire]

Originally Posted by A LaMere

Nope.... albums aren't made for computer speakers...

Nope... mastering engineers quite obviously don't do thier final checks on laptop speakers... Though, as a cross reference, having a tiny pair of crap computer speakers is a decent and cheap idea imo.

Music is not dead... it's still alive.. even when it's being played over laptop speakers. These days, you have to look for it... and that isn't hard... it's just most people these days are spending their time looking for things on craigslist... or on youtube... or adding friends on myspace... or posting threads here at Gearslutz...

people listen to music on buds and laptop speakers...so we shoudnt take this into account because?

[edcampos]

Originally Posted by Keire

people listen to music on buds and laptop speakers...so we shoudnt take this into account because?

I don't quite see where it was stated that we should not take this into account.

Ed

[A LaMere]

Originally Posted by Keire

people listen to music on buds and laptop speakers...so we shoudnt take this into account because?

Originally Posted by edcampos

I don't quite see where it was stated that we should not take this into account.

Ed

Thanks Ed... Exactly.

I didn't say that this shouldn't be taken into account... Hell, I listen to my ipod with earbuds like everyone else...

I actually said that cross-checking a mix on small computer speakers is a good idea... though I don't use laptop speakers... I have this tiny pair of crap speakers, I can't remember who even makes them... they actually compress everything that's put through them insanely.. but they're fun to cross check mixes on..

My point was... Music isn't designed for laptop speakers by anyone that I know or have ever heard of... I'll agree that no serious fan of music listens to music on laptop speakers as their primary source either.. for any extended amount of time anyways...

[Keire]

shit, sorry man...i completely mis read your post.

[centurymantra]

Originally Posted by Bierce85

I know a few people who listen on laptop speakers who are pretty "in to" music, they're just broke so they don't buy anything. These same people go to bars at night and spend $30 on beer and food but are always "broke", but I digress...

I realize that disposable income is necessary and this is a big factor for some folks. Not everyone has/can/will justify having Pass Labs amps in their home, but someone who owns a laptop in the first place (which certainly cost $$) clearly has some discretionary income. Like I said, I really do feel if someone just settles for the absolute bottom of the barrel sound reproduction and convenience over all else (ie. laptop speakers)...they don't give a shit and would be HARD pressed to convince me they are "into" music (at least in the manner that constitutes being 'into music' in my book). . The fact that the easily obtainable consumer stero gear is such plastic crap certainly doesn't help, but even a couple bucks on some outboard speakers...some garage sale plundering. A very small effort can get you something that you will enjoy.

[8th_note]

Like century said, it's not disposable income. People have plenty of money to buy a decent stereo. But it's not only that they're listening passively, they constantly multitasking. Most young people these days listen to music while they do something else. The act of listening to music as one's sole activity is gone as far as I can tell.

I have a very nice stereo and when people listen to it they are amazed. They have never had a music listening experience like that before.

Regarding mixing so that a recording sounds good on laptop speakers I haven't stooped that low. I do check my final mixes on earbuds, however, which has been a valuable tool, particularly with getting the bass right. I think that adjusting my mix so it sounds good on a laptop is where I draw the line.

[Karloff70]

I love music, always have. I did about 12 years of pro engineering and some production. The idea was 'do what you love and get payed'. I do not love the idea of spending my time and energy on trying to make clients often already boring music sound 'good' on a f***ing laptop. I don't do much pro-engineering/production anymore. I am happier. If you're happy providing what's asked, regardless, fine. Good for you. Personally if it comes to it like that, I'd rather record only projects that I'm totally into and make my money elsewhere than ***** out and wonder where the fun has gone.

[vernier]

Its the difference between a recording lasting forever, or being totally forgotten day after tomorrow.

[eligit]

Originally Posted by slipperman

I have been making every single "big picture" and "instrument pocket and focus adjustment" for mix finals on tiny iMac speakers at my reception desk for over 5 years now.

Takes 10-15 minutes max.

Always seems to work back in the control room as well.

Rarely regret it.

Go figure.

SM.

well if you can get it nice in both situations....that is ideal. kudos to you sir.

whenever i listen to anything on a laptop that is NOT hard rock or something else pretty constantly loud....it does not translate on the laptop....but then opens right up on a real set up. classical and jazz is the worst victim but other less than super compressed CDs from the mid 90s up to maybe 2002 (?) suffer on the lap top and the new CDs sound way more impressive...but on a real system this is exactly reversed. that is the real bummer.

i will often hear a new album on a friends mac lap top and think "wow!" how could those tiny crappy speakers get out so much detail and space? so i get the album for myself and it implodes on the bm6ps and lavry D/A.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by vernier

Its the difference between a recording lasting forever, or being totally forgotten day after tomorrow.

See, exactly in that light I have no interest whatsoever to expend my energy (and lord knows the studio 'sucks' it out of you) on a forgotten tomorrow piece of infantile music with big 'impressive' gimmicky sounds made to be consumed while doing anything but really listening to it in the name of 'being part of the industry, man'......

[larry b]

Mmeh. Young people still enjoy the act of 'listening' to music. It's not dead. Neither is music. IMHO that is a very short-sighted point of view. I'm pretty sure there's probabably been people bitching about 'crappy popular music' ever since the transmission towers began broadcasting radio waves. People have been doing other tasks while listening (or not listening) to music just as long as it's been being recorded/broadcast/purchased/played at home.

Technology changes. Formats change. Tastes change. Technology advances. What are we to do? I'm personally not one to get my panties up in a tizzy about it.

I'm pretty confident that even today's 'loudness war' will eventually subside as the masses realize that dynamics in music can be a good, if not necessary thing.

[guittarzzan]

Originally Posted by vernier
"Its the difference between a recording lasting forever, or being totally forgotten day after tomorrow. "


I think if it is a great song of substance, performed well and mixed even moderately well on any speakers, it won't be forgotten the day after tomorrow. Great songs are great songs and seem to stand the test of time regardless of if the bass was a bit too loud in the mix or it was too squashed etc. If Open Arms had been mixed on lap top speakers by a decent mixer, it would still be a great ballad that you'll hear at every other wedding you attend. I think the song matters more than the mix, but that's just my opinion.

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by eligit

Is it just me?

It seems like whenever i hang at a friend's place their "go to" way of listening to music is on the built in speakers on their lap top.

the funny thing is that many of the new albums that come out seem to translate very well to this listening environment and the amount of detail is impressive for such a terrible set up.....but then i listen to the same album on a real system and have to turn it off after one song.

this is truly a strange thing. we are not even talking about ipods here....this is lap top computer built in speakers......is this the new standard listening environment? is this what mastering houses do the "final check" on?

the klaxons cd is a great example of this.. sounds great on the macbook, terrible on headfones.. everything is sooo smashed into white noise its baffling...

however, i found a vinyl copy of it and it sounded pretty good...