Kick and Bass via Sidechain Compression as well as general Low End Theory

Umlaaat · 21st July 2004

Since reading about sidechain compression for kick to bass, i've been experimienting with this and wonder:

Is this the norm for mixing low end?

The basic premise of this is that the kick triggers the compressor to work on the bass, thereby making a clearing for the kick.
I've tried it the other way around and can't really seem to hear any kind of change.

A problem I've got with this method is the pumping that happens to the bass after recovering from a kick trigger.. Is this avoidable at all?

I guess this wouldn't be used in all applications, so another method that i've gathered is have each on its own freq. plane, scoop low out of the kick and have it made up on the bass...

But as far as sidechaining goes... what other ways would it be used for?

jtienhaara · 21st July 2004

As far as kick / bass ducking I can't help. I hate the very idea of it.

Sidechains are infinitely useful though.

Mult the signal out to EQ back into the sidechain to squash down nasty low or high frequencies extra hard.

Mult stereo signals to mono, route to a pair of mono comp side chains for stereo compression without left-to-right shifting. Try it on hard-panned overheads, for example.

You can use it to fatten up tone. Someone recently posted a great tip for kick drum: feed a sine wave into a gate. Send the "real" kick drum into the side chain. Mix the output of the gate in with the original "real" kick. The sine wave should be around 150 Hz for a huge kick, 250 for a jazzy kick. Fast attck, fast release. (Apparently longer release works for a hip hoppy sound, but I wouldn't know). I can't remember who posted the idea or what thread it was, but to somone: thanks! Great tip!

I'm sure there are loooots of other uses for sidechain...

Have fun with it!

Cheers,

Johann

DirkB · 21st July 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Umlaaat
Since reading about sidechain compression for kick to bass, i've been experimienting with this and wonder:

Is this the norm for mixing low end?

Definitely not the norm, more of a 'first try fix' when the kick and bass really aren't loving eachother.
But that's my view, YMMV.

Greetings,
Dirk

Jules · 21st July 2004

"Definitely not the norm, more of a 'first try fix' when the kick and bass really aren't loving eachother. But that's my view,"

I agree

Ifa bass player is so bad that his timeing has a negative effect on a song it sometimes HELPS to lose the attack of the bass with this trick and let the kick dominate.

faeflora · 21st July 2004

Depends on the genre and source sounds.

With rock this "trick" will sound stupid.

warhead · 22nd July 2004

Done right it's a wonderful effect with kick / bass g.

I've had some fun ducking guitars out of the way when vocals kick in on dense mixes. Nothing crazy...too obvious and it starts sounding like somebody's being paged.

War

KeMiKaL · 11th December 2008

even though this thread is 4 years old, I have the best audible example for it...

In this sort of application, sidechaining the kick and the bass is way to make it thump!!

For hip-hop?? I'd say sometimes I do use it.

Michael Khan · 4th October 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeMiKaL

even though this thread is 4 years old, I have the best audible example for it...

In this sort of application, sidechaining the kick and the bass is way to make it thump!!

For hip-hop?? I'd say sometimes I do use it.

Nice. The kick owns the dance floor on that one!

dullfangs · 19th October 2010

makes the kick sound too perfect, imo. i could see the appeal for electronic genre's, though.

21st July 2004	#1
Umlaaat Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,102 Thread Starter	Kick and Bass via Sidechain Compression as well as general Low End Theory Since reading about sidechain compression for kick to bass, i've been experimienting with this and wonder: Is this the norm for mixing low end? The basic premise of this is that the kick triggers the compressor to work on the bass, thereby making a clearing for the kick. I've tried it the other way around and can't really seem to hear any kind of change. A problem I've got with this method is the pumping that happens to the bass after recovering from a kick trigger.. Is this avoidable at all? I guess this wouldn't be used in all applications, so another method that i've gathered is have each on its own freq. plane, scoop low out of the kick and have it made up on the bass... But as far as sidechaining goes... what other ways would it be used for?

21st July 2004	#4
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A Yank in London, UK Posts: 17,340 1 Review written	"Definitely not the norm, more of a 'first try fix' when the kick and bass really aren't loving eachother. But that's my view," I agree Ifa bass player is so bad that his timeing has a negative effect on a song it sometimes HELPS to lose the attack of the bass with this trick and let the kick dominate. __________________ Jules Add your reviews to the new reviews area! Gearslutz on Facebook Follow my GS picks on Twitter

22nd July 2004	#6
warhead Jai guru deva om Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 11,906	Done right it's a wonderful effect with kick / bass g. I've had some fun ducking guitars out of the way when vocals kick in on dense mixes. Nothing crazy...too obvious and it starts sounding like somebody's being paged. War __________________ Warren Dent - Owner of: www.ZenProAudio.com Where You Get Gear Now & Zen Email via Gearslutz

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21st July 2004	#2
jtienhaara Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Halifax, Canada Posts: 546	As far as kick / bass ducking I can't help. I hate the very idea of it. Sidechains are infinitely useful though. Mult the signal out to EQ back into the sidechain to squash down nasty low or high frequencies extra hard. Mult stereo signals to mono, route to a pair of mono comp side chains for stereo compression without left-to-right shifting. Try it on hard-panned overheads, for example. You can use it to fatten up tone. Someone recently posted a great tip for kick drum: feed a sine wave into a gate. Send the "real" kick drum into the side chain. Mix the output of the gate in with the original "real" kick. The sine wave should be around 150 Hz for a huge kick, 250 for a jazzy kick. Fast attck, fast release. (Apparently longer release works for a hip hoppy sound, but I wouldn't know). I can't remember who posted the idea or what thread it was, but to somone: thanks! Great tip! I'm sure there are loooots of other uses for sidechain... Have fun with it! Cheers, Johann

21st July 2004	#5
faeflora Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: washington dc Posts: 2,019	Depends on the genre and source sounds. With rock this "trick" will sound stupid.

19th October 2010	#9
dullfangs Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 522	makes the kick sound too perfect, imo. i could see the appeal for electronic genre's, though.