stereo gtrs too loud when mixed to mono!

PaRaNoId · 20th July 2004

like the title says...
I recorded a L and R guitar (this is a heavy-metal type song) with different mics and diferent guitars. I mix the song in stereo, but when i check my mix in mono, the guitars suddenly double in volume! This would make perfect sense because in "folded-down mono" there would be twice the normal guitar volume. How do I satisfy both my stereo "real" mix, and possible TV and radio spots, etc???

Medicine Dog · 20th July 2004

Welcome to the world of compromise

My suggestion would be to not hard-pan the guitars left & right. You might try a 9 & 3 position, or 10 & 2 - this would lessen the loudness increase when the channels are summed.

JohnMcD · 20th July 2004

Hey, I feel your pain. I've had a similiar thing, but I eventually re-did the recording with different mic techniques.

A way to solve your problem the long way.

1)Make a copy of each: Left and Right part. You should have a total of 4 now.

2)Take a copy of the Right part, lower the volume down significantly. Apply a hollow reverb to it with no tails. Maybe a plate setting. You just want to make it a ghostly image, nothing funky here. Think like an off axis mic. Compress the reverb copy with little to no make up gain. Now you have (Right Copy 2)

Pan it to the Left stereo side.

You should now have (Left 1) and (Right 1) in the stereo image on either side. But along with (Left 1) on the left side, you'll have a (Right Copy 1) part panned at the exact spot the (Left 1) is sitting in.

3)Take a copy of the Left part, lower the volume down significantly. Apply a hollow reverb to it with no tails. Maybe a plate setting. you just want to make it a ghostly image, nothing funky here. Think like an off axis mic. Compress the reverb copy with little to no make up gain. Now you have (Left Copy 2)

Pan it to the Right stereo side.

You should now have (Left 1) with (Right Copy 2) panned with it and (Right 1) with (Left Copy 2) panned with it.

Purpose of this is to keep stereo fullness but mono compatible.

Because you have the copies panned with it, lower the overall volume of guitars both (Left 1) and (Right 1) and *gently* raise the copies to makeup for the loss. Not too much, just a little bit on the level. When summed in mono, it should be fine.

Remember, the copies must be significantly lower in volume when compared to the main (Left 1) and (Right 1) guitar parts. Usually my 2 mic technique will give me the room I need due to an off axis response. Hope you get the gist of this whole thing.

-John

bassmac · 20th July 2004

My L/R guitars work better in mono when I use different amp/gtr/mic combinations for each side.

PaRaNoId · 20th July 2004

coolio! I ended up just panning at like 88% on each side. It actually left room for the OHs to sound bigger, and now in mono, it isn't nearly as bad...peace out! BTW- Awesome idea with the phantom guitars, but it would cloud this particular mix up a bit too much..

20th July 2004	#1
PaRaNoId Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 550 Thread Starter	stereo gtrs too loud when mixed to mono! like the title says... I recorded a L and R guitar (this is a heavy-metal type song) with different mics and diferent guitars. I mix the song in stereo, but when i check my mix in mono, the guitars suddenly double in volume! This would make perfect sense because in "folded-down mono" there would be twice the normal guitar volume. How do I satisfy both my stereo "real" mix, and possible TV and radio spots, etc??? __________________ It's not the tools, it's the talent... Clients include- GIN BLOSSOMS, SOCIAL DISTORTION, HOT HOT HEAT, CIRCA SURVIVE, SILVER SUN PICKUPS, PHOENIX, DIRTY HEADS, ROGER CLYNE AND THE PACEMAKERS, BUSTICLES, ABOVE THE LOVE...

20th July 2004	#2
Medicine Dog Gear Head Joined: Dec 2003 Location: The Pleades Posts: 34	Welcome to the world of compromise My suggestion would be to not hard-pan the guitars left & right. You might try a 9 & 3 position, or 10 & 2 - this would lessen the loudness increase when the channels are summed. __________________ -MD

20th July 2004	#5
PaRaNoId Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 550 Thread Starter	thanx! coolio! I ended up just panning at like 88% on each side. It actually left room for the OHs to sound bigger, and now in mono, it isn't nearly as bad...peace out! BTW- Awesome idea with the phantom guitars, but it would cloud this particular mix up a bit too much..

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20th July 2004	#3
JohnMcD Gear nut Joined: Feb 2004 Location: Oregon Posts: 144	Hey, I feel your pain. I've had a similiar thing, but I eventually re-did the recording with different mic techniques. A way to solve your problem the long way. 1)Make a copy of each: Left and Right part. You should have a total of 4 now. 2)Take a copy of the Right part, lower the volume down significantly. Apply a hollow reverb to it with no tails. Maybe a plate setting. You just want to make it a ghostly image, nothing funky here. Think like an off axis mic. Compress the reverb copy with little to no make up gain. Now you have (Right Copy 2) Pan it to the Left stereo side. You should now have (Left 1) and (Right 1) in the stereo image on either side. But along with (Left 1) on the left side, you'll have a (Right Copy 1) part panned at the exact spot the (Left 1) is sitting in. 3)Take a copy of the Left part, lower the volume down significantly. Apply a hollow reverb to it with no tails. Maybe a plate setting. you just want to make it a ghostly image, nothing funky here. Think like an off axis mic. Compress the reverb copy with little to no make up gain. Now you have (Left Copy 2) Pan it to the Right stereo side. You should now have (Left 1) with (Right Copy 2) panned with it and (Right 1) with (Left Copy 2) panned with it. Purpose of this is to keep stereo fullness but mono compatible. Because you have the copies panned with it, lower the overall volume of guitars both (Left 1) and (Right 1) and gently raise the copies to makeup for the loss. Not too much, just a little bit on the level. When summed in mono, it should be fine. Remember, the copies must be significantly lower in volume when compared to the main (Left 1) and (Right 1) guitar parts. Usually my 2 mic technique will give me the room I need due to an off axis response. Hope you get the gist of this whole thing. -John

20th July 2004	#4
bassmac Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 683	My L/R guitars work better in mono when I use different amp/gtr/mic combinations for each side.