Another Audio School Thread - Different Perspective

[J.Epic]

What's up GS?

Just like to say first of all I've searched through and and done my reading concerning this particular subject, so the questions I'm asking are from a bit of a different perspective. Second, this is a great board and has been really helpful to me over the past few years (been lurking for a minute) and I'd like to take this chance to thank everyone for the wealth of knowledge supplied here.

OK, now to the topic of discussion. I have a couple of questions that are straight yes or no, and a few based off opinion, I'd appreciate any help in this area.

SAE Amsterdam is currently running a program for US and Canadian students to study for 1 year at roughly 19,000. Now I'll say honestly that I've never been to into the idea of recording schools because of the cost vs benefit, but this particular package offers a few different opportunities.

1. The opportunity to live out of the country for a year
2. Studio time, which I've not yet experienced in any copacity other than a home studio.
3. A start in education, something that I probably should have done after High School.

Now what makes my situation slightly different from those around me is, unlike most of people that go to these schools, I have no goals of being a full time professional recording engineer. On the contrary, I would like to run a small studio to support artists on my independent label while pursuing my education in other fields, and educating my artists on how to work the equipment for themselves. So as opposed to the regular individual trying to get a job in this field my questions are.

1. Once I achieve a degree (not certificate) in Recording Arts, will certain General Education requirements transfer over to my future educational endeavors?

2. Has anyone here ever attended SAE in Amsterdam? I'm aware that the quality of the program varies by campus, so anyone that has experience at this particular campus would be very appreciated.

3. (this is where opinions come in) Do you think my goals and plans are sensible considering the amount of money being spent, why or why not?

Finally I'd like to make sure a few things are completely clear. I am aware, more than most that when it comes to education you get out what you put in. If I were to attend this program it would be putting my full potential and effort into it. Also, most above all things I value the experience not some piece of paper that says I know engineering, I see this as quite the opportunity of the lifetime.

FINALLY, many are quick to say "Take that 20k and put it into a studio, instead of school". Well to this I have to say is; At 20 with terrible credit and no steady job (or schooling) its completely probable to receive educational loans reaching 3 times this amount. However, NO BANK would willingly give me even a quarter of this amount of money in a general purpose or small business loan. If it were possible, its more than likely that would be the route I would take. Further more, while a studio may not care about an audio engineering degree when you apply for a JOB, A bank will see it as an important commodity when you apply for a loan.

Thank you all very much for your time.

PEACE

J. Epic

[Adria_BCN]

Well...

The SAE thing... Uhm... I've always thought that SAE's course is something you can take great profit of ir you're easy going, constant person/student. I mean.. there's few following from the teachers it's not like going to school. You're let a little to yourself. You have to find the bands to record... experiment with what you're teached at the teorical classes... So if you're not smart enough to investigate, find people and be willing to take any studio hour that's free, it's not your place. On the other hand you can take great profit from this, and get lots of recording practice from your time at SAE. A bit of previous basic studio knowledge i think it's mandatory to take full advantage of SAE's course.

About your question about SAE Amsterdam, i've met a few people comming from that School, with good level, but who knows, maybe they we're the 3 out of 100.

As i see you would go on a loan, i didn't take in consideration how great spending a year in Amsterdam can be! :D

Hope to help you.

[J.Epic]

Thanks for the response Adria! You seem to have about the same take on it as I do, its all what you make of it.

appreciate the feedback

J.Epic

[Steven_C]

Hi,

my first post... been lurking around for some time now, great community! I'm not a native speaker, so please excuse my bad english...

I've been having pretty much the same experience with SAE graduates as Adria_BCN. I've worked with a few (maybe half a dozen) which were really doing a great job, but with a few dozen who weren't; could have been bad luck... but what really offended me was the ones who didn't do the best job also tended to overestimate their abilities completely (but who doesn't?).
Time seems to be an issue for you, and you say you don't want to work as an audio engineer for a living, but if you really consider to get some experience and learn (and live in europe for some time) I would really suggest you consider one of the non-private (colleges run by the state, the usual in Europe) studies offered. This usually takes more time, but also means you get a lot more experience (including opportunities to do internships during the holidays) and gives you a international recognized degree (typically a M.A., some colleges also offer a M.Eng./B.Eng.). Most colleges in the netherlands or germany who offer Audio Engineering/Production demand a musical qualifying exam which often can be compared to the exam "normal" music students have to take, mostly because the musical education taught is on the same level, including a final exam (this is something SAE misses completely, and something you might want to benefit from, especially if you don't mainly aim for engineering or production). And once you've made it "through the door" its really cheap compared to studying in the US or at SAE, and its common for students over here to already work part-time in the industry.
Amsterdam sure is a great city to live in (I live in germany not too far from the border, so I've been there a few times for a weekend), and I'm sure you would enjoy your time there.

All the best,
SC

[astronmr20]

I'm mostly against that sort of a student loan for school, for several reasons.


Just curious, what sort of experience or gear do you already have? Are you starting from "zero?"

[J.Epic]

Thanks Steven,

Yes time is something of an issue, but really I'm more concerned with the logistics of schooling in another country. Like I said I havent gone to any higher education, and just barely made it through high school. While these private colleges are quick to take anyone who gives them there money, I don't know if non private universities would be interested.

I would definitely prefer thee route you speak of however.

Could you recommend any schools out there that offer similar programs? really appreciate the help.

[J.Epic]

Astronmr,

I've been recording for about 6 years. I'm a beat head first and foremost, and learned audio starting with samplers, synthesizers and the like. I worked at guitar center as the pro audio manager and know my products as far as the prosumer stuff goes. I also understand signal flow and the physics of sound and electricity to some point.

I know how to run a DAW and understand the basic principles of EQ, Compression, Limiting, Gates, Reverb. I have a grasp on stereo imaging and how to place things in a mix. I've tracked guitar, bass, drums, and vocals.

To me however knowing how to do something and knowing how to do something right are two different things. I guess what I'm saying is I know the concepts, but I haven't had much chance to put them to use and really develop a great technique.

I also worked on an SSL 9000 one time at the Expressions center for new media in berkley as a second to track a band.

I actually didn't go to college right out of high school because I'm against student loans. However, here I sit 2 years later about $5000 down in debt and no prospects of a job except for an extended career in retail. Time for a change.

[Jayro_Rockola]

I know that the prospect of going overseas to chase your muse sounds awesome and romantic, but I bet you could find a college here in the states that would jumpstart your dream for half the dough. I got my degree from The Evergreen State College in Olympia Washington several years ago and didn't have to take out crazy loans. I think it was 9k a year for out of state and 3K for residents. Granted, It's not a trade school and you won't be privy to the cutting edge of technology all of the time, but I don't know of another audio program that has a cutting edge studio circa mid '70's. Badass API consoles all over the place (I think they have four), lot's of analogue tape and synthesis and first rate instructors. There's probably a few more of these "hidden" schools around if you do some digging.

Good luck!

[J.Epic]

Jayro, Respect. But I'd rather fail for "romance and awesomness" than succeed in this wasteland we call a country. Sorry, just my personal feelings, Neither here nor there.

However, the concept of work with API and tape (something I enjoy greatly) does interest me, and the northwest would be a nice change of scenery.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll keep it in mind.

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by J.Epic

Now what makes my situation slightly different from those around me is, unlike most of people that go to these schools, I have no goals of being a full time professional recording engineer. On the contrary, I would like to run a small studio to support artists on my independent label while pursuing my education in other fields, and educating my artists on how to work the equipment for themselves.

Then may I suggest that you get on with getting that eduation first, so that you are in a position to do just that!

Originally Posted by J.Epic

1. Once I achieve a degree (not certificate) in Recording Arts, will certain General Education requirements transfer over to my future educational endeavors?

Not from some 'goovey and windswept' recreational course from the SAE or indeed from any unacredited college.

Originally Posted by J.Epic

2. Has anyone here ever attended SAE in Amsterdam? I'm aware that the quality of the program varies by campus, so anyone that has experience at this particular campus would be very appreciated.

I have met some who have been there and they said that it was noit very good. Alltogether, the SAE, Fullsail and the like are not good and are best avoided.

Originally Posted by J.Epic

3. (this is where opinions come in) Do you think my goals and plans are sensible considering the amount of money being spent, why or why not?

You can learn all you need by buying a small PT-Lite or similar rig and experimenting.

Recording music for fun is always a great thing to do, but recording music professionally is a totally different kettle of fish and is not an easy thing to do. It is often a very academic thing to do and not an easy field to succeed in any more.

An education in some practical field that you find interesting, such as electrical engineering, IT or whatever floats your boat, will get you further into an interesting field and a chance of a real career.

Playing with consumer software at the SAE will not.

[J.Epic]

Thanks Byrne,

I don't feel as if i explained myself properly, or possibly you did not understand, but recording professionals is the goal, and whether the quality is or not I feel thats what I'm doing right now.

But if the school is unaccredited, and my degree is not transferable later down the line, than it is more of a waste of time then originally suspected.

Thank you