Metallica Black Album Mic Technique Help Me!

[SMCCUNE]

Metallica Black Album Mic Technique Help Me!

After reading Flemming Rasmussen`s notes for MOP and Justice which are the most AWESOME thing ever I was inspired to try recreating the Black album tone!

By combining these notes and some personal research into the Black album I have got the AMP tone pretty close however......

I would like to know the correct mic technique to get the main tone on the Black album

my setup is as follows mahogany Emg loaded guitar into Mesa Boogie Mk IIc+ which will then go to 2 Marshall 4x12!

All CONSTRUCTIVE help in recreating this tone is welcomed!

many thanks Sam

[bgrotto]

Why re-create the Black Album? Flemming Rasmussen didn't have anything to do with that, I thought. Why not remake Puppets or Ride the Lightning?

Anyway, try to track down a video called "A Year In The Life Of Metallica" or something to that effect. It's the making of the Black Album; good stuff.

[Matt Smith]

I've studied all available Black Album footage since I was a kid like the Zapruder film or something, because that's what got me into recording. My favorite guitar tone and overall production ever.

They had 4 4x12 cabs set up side by side (with a little distance in between them). Randy put a 57 and 421 on each cab. Back in the room they had a a stereo pair of what looks like 414s in front of the setup, then further back and way up high they had some sort of condenser like an 87 or something. Don't forget the "tent of doom," which was a tent of sorts, built from foam and moving blankets, to enclose the cabinets to keep the sound tighter. The 87 (or whatever it was) was up high aimed at an opening in the tent of doom. Also, don't forget that while the Mark II C+ was the main part of the sound, they also used an ADA preamp and who knows what else (Bob and Randy are big on blending amps when recording: see THIS LINK).

Good luck and let us hear how close you get! I've spent my whole life trying to nail it.

Matt

[SMCCUNE]

In response bgrotto

The Black album was produced by Bob Rock with Hetfiled and Ulrich for your information. I`ve watched A year and a half in the life of Metallica and Classic albums Metallica many times and agree they are useful, but I require further information and analysis

"Why not remake Puppets or Ride the Lightning"

I`m not trying to remake the album, I have my own material to play, I`m trying to get the tone, the reason I mention Puppets and Justice is a)because I love the tone on both those albums and b)although Bob Rock and not Flemming Rasmussen was involved with the Black album it is a third great tone and Hetfield himself says the sound on the Black album was based on the sound/equipment of Justice but with more midrange added and a few other adjustments (like remembering to turn Jason`s Bass on in the mix lol), so Rasmussen`s notes for Justice are in fact relevant as a starting point.

hope this answers your questions

hope people can answer mine

thanks Sam

[SMCCUNE]

Hi Matt thanks for the info

I was wondering what the ambients were in the tent of doom, so cheers for that!

I`ll definetely record some examples for you!

thanks Sam

[Matt Smith]

Originally Posted by SMCCUNE

I`ll definetely record some examples for you after I`ve got a second MD421 (the first arrived this morning yay) and found a few bits of Hetfields guitar naked and un triple tracked to do a spectral analysis

thanks Sam

Through the Never and Of Wolf and Man.

[SMCCUNE]

Here are some more questions

a)Watching Rock and Randy mic a Marshall cab while Hetfield is playing a double neck Gibson SG, it appears they point a 414 straight up at the ceiling?

b)What are the distances of the various mics from the cabs?

c)How are the Mics placed in relation to the cone?

d)How are the mics placed in relation to each other
"I use them to phase cancel each other, to control the sound like with an EQ but instead of an EQ."
Is this phase cancellation due to placement, or hitting phase invert button on desk?

many thanks Sam :)

[SMCCUNE]

Originally Posted by Matt Smith

Through the Never and Of Wolf and Man.

with Bob Rock at the helm the song should have been called Through the Neve (ouch bad pun police)

Sam

[84K]

I believe the singer of nickelback bought the ssl G(+) they mixed that album on and has it in his home studio. just a side note.

[lydpik]

There's also another very important issue: what pre-amp, and EQ'S, and maybe compressors, was used to sculpture the guitar sound? These things are just as important to know as what Amp, cap. etc. that was used.

Can't seem to find info on that anywhere... It's strange, that no one has ever done a interview with Randy or Bob on how they recorded that masterpiece!

I have also tried to find some info on how they miked up the drums... From the videos you can see some of the close mikes, but what about ambiance and OH microphones, what are they and how where they placed in the room?

I'll guess we'll never know...

Peter

[SMCCUNE]

Originally Posted by lydpik

There's also another very important issue: what pre-amp, and EQ'S, and maybe compressors, was used to sculpture the guitar sound? These things are just as important to know as what Amp, cap. etc. that was used.

Peter

depends how much outboard was used and to what extent, that defines whether it is as important, obviously everything in the chain helps but nobody other than Chad Kreuger (yuk) can afford the whole caboodle. So one step at a time, first the guitar tone, then get the mic technique right, then later I can start thinking about whether they used compression, EQ etc that`ll be the icing on the cake.

this thread has a little more about the other things in the chain

Metallica black album recording chain.

anyone got any answers to my questions?

thanks Sam

[SMCCUNE]

Watching Rock and Randy mic a Marshall cab while Hetfield is playing a double neck Gibson SG, it appears they point a 414 straight up at the ceiling?

anyone got any ideas on this?

many thanks Sam :)

[84K]

YouTube - Metallica - Drum Recording Techniques

YouTube - Metallica - Turn The Page (Recording Moments) 1

YouTube - Metallica - Turn The Page (Recording Moments) 2

[SMCCUNE]

Its sounding too harsh, I`m going to have to work on mic placement!

Sam

[Audio Hombre]

The amp is turned all the way up, with the guitar muted or not plugged in. The hiss that one would hear would be what is technically called 'white noise'.

i think butch vig was doing this before bob

[SMCCUNE]

I`ve got the amp settings sorted now, got a new mk2c+ which sounds better and a 2nd Marshall cab should be here by mid next week.

So I`m getting closer, the main things I need to know now are the mic placement, and any outboard used.

many thanks Sam

[SMCCUNE]

My 2nd Marshall cab has turned up, sounds phenomenal.

Once I`ve got an extra speaker cable I will wire them both up, mic em both and post some examples.

if anyone has anymore info please let me know

thanks Sam

[severe]

Originally Posted by 84K

I believe the singer of nickelback bought the ssl G(+) they mixed that album on and has it in his home studio. just a side note.

This explains the similarities in their sound.

Originally Posted by SMCCUNE

From what I can make out from the bit at the start of unforgiven, the sm57 and md 421 are both pointing on axis, slightly off centrecone...

BTW.. wouldn't the room, variables mentioned, and even others, have just as much to do with the sound as your unmitigated determination to get the mic placement correct?

Here's an idea... find a similar room and tools, and move some mics around until you've got something. If you don't come close you'll, at the very least, have something to call your own. It's been 25 days.

[SMCCUNE]

They built a sound tent inside the room to give an enclosed sound, my room is quite small and filled with soft furnishings (will have to get some more fabric and foam in here ha) so should sound close enough for my purposes, if not I`ll build a foam and blanket tent of my own ha.

My microphone technique is weak, so thats what I mainly want to learn about, it was the most important thing about production/engineering I was never taught (I`m fine with pre mic sound and post mic effects/mixing)

I know some great engineer/producers of electronica and acoustic music who have taught me a lot but all the rock engineers/producers I`ve seen locally are hopeless/clueless, so there hasn`t been anyone I can learn good cab micing technique from.

I know I could just trial and error it but there is a particular sound I want and I`m sure in the esteemed company of Gearslutz members, people can offer me some helpful pointers to take out some of the guess work.

many thanks Sam

[paultools]

Originally Posted by SMCCUNE

They built a sound tent inside the room to give an enclosed sound, my room is quite small and filled with soft furnishings (will have to get some more fabric and foam in here ha) so should sound close enough for my purposes, if not I`ll build a foam and blanket tent of my own ha.

My microphone technique is weak, so thats what I mainly want to learn about, it was the most important thing about production/engineering I was never taught (I`m fine with pre mic sound and post mic effects/mixing)

I know some great engineer/producers of electronica and acoustic music who have taught me a lot but all the rock engineers/producers I`ve seen locally are hopeless/clueless, so there hasn`t been anyone I can learn good cab micing technique from.

I know I could just trial and error it but there is a particular sound I want and I`m sure in the esteemed company of Gearslutz members, people can offer me some helpful pointers to take out some of the guess work.

many thanks Sam

One channel of what Bob has in his racks will run you about $4 grand.
Trial and error with what you have is the best teacher. Don't underestimate the power of guess work.

[Mrmot]

check this thread from harmony-central forums:

Ok, so I've spent $23,894.23 on gear and fooled around and NAILED Hetfield's tone... - Harmony Central Musician Community Forums

this guy pretty muched nailed the hetfield tone, but from Load era (which i think i prefer to the black album sound)

[SMCCUNE]

Now I`ve got the Mk 2c+ part of the sound nailed YAY

I need an extra cable so I can wire up both cabs at the same time!

Sounding Awesome!

Sam

[SMCCUNE]

again any ideas!

a)Watching Rock and Randy mic a Marshall cab while Hetfield is playing a double neck Gibson SG, it appears they point a 414 straight up at the ceiling?

b)What are the distances of the various mics from the cabs?

c)How are the Mics placed in relation to the cone?

d)How are the mics placed in relation to each other
"I use them to phase cancel each other, to control the sound like with an EQ but instead of an EQ."
Is this phase cancellation due to placement, or hitting phase invert button on desk?

many thanks Sam :)

Sam

[SMCCUNE]

Multi-amping:

does anyone know of a good way/device to split the guitar signal to 3 or 4 amps/preamps

many thanks Sam

[BrettPortzer]

Why is the graphic section blurred out?

Originally Posted by SMCCUNE

My setup so far.

Now I`ve got the Mk 2c+ part of the sound nailed YAY

But I`m hearing the lack of multi amping as compared to the black album, I`ll record some examples with what I have so far. I have a very educated guess for the settings on the Mk IV (but I don`t have a Mk IV boo hoo I`ll have to use my studio pre to simulate it for now) ADA mp1 definetely the next thing on my shopping list after another md 421 and a parametric eq. Need an extra cable so I can wire up both cabs at the same time!

q)does anyone have any idea how his ADA mp1 was setup?

Sounding Awesome!

Sam

[Phrygian]

Originally Posted by SMCCUNE

Multi-amping:

does anyone know of a good way/device to split the guitar signal to 3 or 4 amps/preamps

many thanks Sam

Apparently the Voodoo Labs Amp Switcher is great for this.

I had the Morley Tripler (up to 3 amps) and hated it. Noisy!

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by BrettPortzer

Why is the graphic section blurred out?

It's obvious, he doesn't want people to steal his uber black album tone. That'd be like giving away a bbq'ers famous rub recipe.

[eligit]

Originally Posted by 84K

YouTube - Metallica - Drum Recording Techniques

YouTube - Metallica - Turn The Page (Recording Moments) 1

YouTube - Metallica - Turn The Page (Recording Moments) 2

man....those solo's hetfield vocals are a hoot!

"there I goooooA!"

[Louderock]

Radial JD7 is a great guitar splitter. Has on/off switches, phase reverse, ground lift, DI out.

[SMCCUNE]

that is a sweet piece of GEAR!

but a bit overspecced/expensive for my needs

I want something in between, not as minimal as an ABY box, but without costing as much as a couple of marshall cabs

thanks all the same

Sam