How do you end up choosing specific preamps for specific sounds??

[JDavisNJ]

Hello all,

I'm new to the recording game (relatively) and want to update some of my gear. I'm using a crappy firewire box right now and want to upgrade.

My plan is to pick up the two channel Mytek converter and a couple luncbox preamps. This will mainly be for recording guitar, bass, vocals, until I can set up a proper drum environment.

I'm thinking of picking up two Purple Audio Biz preamps.

My main question is: How do most of you, that own multiple different preamps, choose which one will best suit an audio source? I often see certain preamps being used for specific audio sources time and time again.

Any advice, tips, and stories are appreciated.

-Joe

[Stu Gutz]

I prefer one type of pre for everything. All my favorite music was done this way.
I only have one type of soup spoon in my kitchen and it works great for all types of different soups. Same with pres; get a good pre and then focus on more important things.

[Soulbrother]

on my Zoom hard-disc recorder. I sold all my fancy ones when I realised it was all bullcrap. Spent the money on a sweet guitar and a double bass!

And you know what they sound like?

Creamy, warm, crystalline, with just a hint of butter?

Nope. They sound pretty much like the music I put into them through my mikes, except a bit louder.

Does the job.

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by JDavisNJ

How do most of you, that own multiple different preamps, choose which one will best suit an audio source?

When you get to know the characteristics of various pre's, you end up with a "profile" or something... like, "this pre will tend to xxx when the source is xxx'ing," or, "this pre is excellent for the kind of xxx stuff when the singer is of the xxx type."

In my xxxperience, these tendencies are pretty subtle, and don't hold a candle to the importance of either 1) the performance, or b) mic placement.

[lakeshorephatty]

Hi Joe,

The multiple different preamps for different sources phenomenon and hype is relatively new. This was not always available and preamps were what were in whatever console you were recording on.

I would take heed of the fact that using different preamps can be good and if overused can be a hinderance by making a sonic mess.

I would say for me personally, and for most people I know, having 2 styles of preamp that contrast greatly is very useful, and if they do contrast greatly it will be easy to choose, you will be choosing one or the other!

I think this preamp thing can distract people from the most important things that can take A VERY LONG TIME which are mic choice and mic placement.

If i'm really trying to find perfect placement and miking it can take hours at times, i would hate to think what it would be like if i was also swapping out 5 preamps or so.

I think its important to try things, but all the high end class a pre's (like the buzz) can make records. I think everyone compensates in what way they can for pre's by placing mics in places that balance things the way they want to hear them. Sure the slew rate and overall balance of the pre is always felt, but thats why you can't simply judge a console from listening to a record. The engineer/producer has more to do with that record's overall balance than the pre's do.

All that being said it is nice to have some contrast, but don't buy into the hype of all your pairs having to be different.

It is a good idea to try a couple types of pres over a longer time, because it gives you a baseline for how a pre can affect things.. for instance, I have an a designs pacifica and after having it a couple years i'm learning its not quite my thing, but thats only because i had something else to compare it to. It takes a long time though i think to get a grasp of if you like what a certain pre brings to the table for certain sources.

I havent' heard the buzz except on sample cd's and such but it sounded great on those. From what i remember, it was a bit cleaner than I would go for, but to each their own. If i'm remembering correctly the buzz would contrast greatly with a slower thicker preamp very well, perhaps think about that down the road.

Lastly, keep in mind that even saying all this, the differences in high end pre's is dramatically more subtle than the difference between any 2 mics. Get something you think you'll like and start making music with it!

[JDavisNJ]

Thanks a lot for the replies guys.

Yes, I suppose the differences in preamps will be more apparent later down the road. At this point though, I would like to just have a couple good ones. I know good music can probably be made on my Firewire box, but I really do think they are congested and just not that great.

I'm mainly looking into the modular stuff right now.

Thanks for the replies and clarification!

Recommendations are useful as well.

-Joe

[lakeshorephatty]

Hi Joe,

The buzz is as good as anything out there, its more just preference at this price level. Preference is something we can't give you. All i can say is I love my TG chandler and Germanium pre's, but i don't know what you will like.

And also, i'm certain getting a good outboard pre of any sort will be a major upgrade from your firewire box.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

When you get to know the characteristics of various pre's, you end up with a "profile" or something... like, "this pre will tend to xxx when the source is xxx'ing," or, "this pre is excellent for the kind of xxx stuff when the singer is of the xxx type."

In my xxxperience, these tendencies are pretty subtle, and don't hold a candle to the importance of either 1) the performance, or b) mic placement.

i agree.. a lot of times eq can even match diff pre's "sound"

when we had the9000 J installed i told my staff lets buy some outboard pres..

so i set up a test and said..if we can get 90% there with the pre in the board and eq ..i don't wanna buy it..needless to say i think we only bought 1 preamp after testing a slew of em

i think it was a tube tec

[robot gigante]

I don't end up ending specific preamps for different sounds either. The only exception to this is when I am at a studio that has smorgasbord of pres to use instead of a bunch of the same one and am tracking a bunch of things all at same time, like a full band- then I put the best sounding pres on the most important stuff.

They all will sound a bit different, sure, but mic placement and EQ makes up for a lot of those differences.

There are a couple exceptions to this- a couple pre's that I've used color the sound too much, like a Nightpro PreQ3 sounds kind of thin and weedy to my ears and Avalons sound muffly, so if I have to use those I'll put them on something that would suit that sound. Also, if a pre has less headroom than another then the one with less headroom will go on what would be best for it.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by robot gigante

I don't end up ending specific preamps for different sounds either. The only exception to this is when I am at a studio that has smorgasbord of pres to use instead of a bunch of the same one and am tracking a bunch of things all at same time, like a full band- then I put the best sounding pres on the most important stuff.

They all will sound a bit different, sure, but mic placement and EQ makes up for a lot of those differences.

There are a couple exceptions to this- a couple pre's that I've used color the sound too much, like a Nightpro PreQ3 sounds kind of thin and weedy to my ears and Avalons sound muffly, so if I have to use those I'll put them on something that would suit that sound. Also, if a pre has less headroom than another then the one with less headroom will go on what would be best for it.

i guess i should have said good pres..as avalons suck to me

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by Sigma

i guess i should have said good pres..as avalons suck to me

Big Time dude!!!

[Jules]

Originally Posted by JDavisNJ

How do most of you, that own multiple different preamps, choose which one will best suit an audio source?

Any advice, tips, and stories are appreciated.

-Joe

High speed auditioning

While the talent is performing swap around (very quickly) between them and pick the one that sounds best to do the overdub with.

Another case for using a patch bay..

This requires a degree of patience by the performer who will hear themselves cut in and out during the sound checking. But if communication is good they will understand your goal and most times wont mind.

Making the performer perform over and over for long periods while you scratch your chin trying to decide what to use is not cool..tutt

While doing this you might discover that the verses sound good with one pre and the choruses with another..

[taturana]

by chance, by taste or by mistake....

[JDavisNJ]

Thanks gentlemen, you have helped me out.

Now, on the search for converters. I'm pretty set on the two channel Mytek.

Or I might go for the 8 channel Lynx.

-Joe

[manthe]

As I gained more and more experience with recording others, I found the excruciating hand-wringing that can be associated with having an ass-load of preamps and choosing between them goes away. It becomes about 2 things:

1. Speed!
2. knowing your gear!

The worst thing you can do is derail a session by pushing your glasses back up the bridge of your nose and 'geeking out' with preamps when a client is standing their with a guitar around their necks with their mouth open and their eyes wide...energy draining from their ears and fingertips with every wasted second!

I have close to 40 preamps in my studio. Of those 40, there are 8 different brands/sounds/flavors. There are a handful that I never use (they just came with my ADAT extension...I suppose they could work in a pinch). I've used the rest extensively and I have a very good idea of what they sound like and a notion of what things might work good for a particular song, style, genre, etc for a given track/instrument....even down to how they might match up with a mic or mic style.

Really this just comes with knowing your gear and being mentally ready for fast changes and fast setups.

This site is a great resource for doing homework. I bought many preamps before I had the benefit of true, end user description and analysis. At the end of the day, with a few notable exceptions, most preamps in a certain price/quality range will give you great tracks. The differences in a lot of cases are nuanced and/or subtle, as mentioned in this thread. There are some very 'colored' and character filled preamps and channel strips out there too.

I completely agree that mic placement, quality of instruments/amps and, MOST importantly, performances make far greater differences than preamps, past a certain price/performance level. That isn't trying to be/sound snooty. I mean, the truth is, you CAN make quality recordings with 'budget' preamps...just don't do too much stacking or they'll start to show their colors. There are also fantastic deals out there on quality preamps that can get you great tracks that stack for days in $400 to $500/channel price range (even cheaper if buying used).

Establish a budget, map out the style(s) you'll mostly be working within, decide what flavors will work within those parameters, do some homework here and around the web (CAREFULLY - read more than you think you need to in order to weed out the BS) and then buy the right gear the 1st time. TRY to take emotion out of the equation.

Oh yeah, when you think about what you want from a sonic perspective, try to think in creative terms. For example, for drum OH, think about how drums sound and how you want them to sound. Drums have a huge dynamic range and on overheads, the cymbals can be extremely bright...even harsh. So, maybe you'll want a preamp that not only sounds punchy, but also helps tame highs and could also offer some 'natural' compression to help deal with the dynamics. This 'screams' tube preamp, to me...it might, more accurately scream tube channel strip with EQ and compressor

That type of thought process has helped me make some pretty successful decisions over the last several years. Now I feel like I have a very adequate, robust, diverse and 'hard-working' setup for running the type of place I run.

Next quest.....MICS...that one is a little tougher, IMO!

Just my $.25...sorry to ramble

[Sigma]

given tne choice i 'd cut drums elec gtr, bass thru API's ..vox and acoustic stuff thru milennia

then a tube pre for some rounded middy soound and that would be it for me...

[jamsmith]

I am one of those guys who doesn't want his pre to have any "sound". I like to get the exact sound I want at the source, get a mic that will capture that sound, and the pre to handle increasing the gain and not mess with the original sound. The only exception is for vocals where I can't personally tweek a person's voice they way I can their instruments. And then I more likely to use a nice tube compressor (we had JoeMeeks).