Vox Up - Vox Down Listening Test

Kenny Gioia · 28th February 2008

Based on a thought from another thread, I decided to make a test to see how small of a volume difference we can all hear.

I have nothing to prove here. I'm just curious to see if we can all hear .5dB difference in a Vocal track level.

I chose a really dense song on purpose. Let's not discuss the material. Please.

I made a normal mix which is the control.

Then I made 4 other variations. Mix A, B, C, & D.

So there's a Vox up .5dB, Vox up 1dB, Vox down .5dB and a Vox down 1dB.

Let's see if we can guess which mix is what.

Download it here:

Kenny's Download Page

Thanks

Dean7 · 28th February 2008

Well, I could hear a difference for sure, but it was pretty subtle so I might have completely messed things up. Here are my guesses:

Mix A - Vox down .5dB
Mix B - Vox up .5dB
Mix C - Vox up 1dB
Mix D - Vox down 1dB

-Dean

u b k · 28th February 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

So there's a Vox up .5dB, Vox up 1dB, Vox down .5dB and a Vox down 1dB.

i'm guessing B, C, D, A respectively. vocal down was harder for me.

gregoire
del
ubk
.

dwall · 28th February 2008

A -.5
B +.5
C +1
D -1

That's listening on crappy earbuds hooked to my computer. I'll be suprised, but very interested, to learn that I'm wrong though.

Brenton · 28th February 2008

C +1
B +.5
A -.5
D -1

Mixerman · 29th February 2008

This wasn't even hard, and nearly everyone on this thread, so far, has it right.

Mix A down.5db
Mix B up .5db
Mix C up 1db
Mix D dwn 1db

The more dialed in your mix, the more obvious the difference will be. Obviously, .5 db seems subtle on the surface of things. But it makes a difference in how the track feels compared to the vocal. And when it's mastered, and limiting has been applied, it becomes an even bigger difference.

That said, if you're way out of the ballpark to where the vocal should sit, .5 db won't make a difference.

Out of the five mixes, I would recommend using the "Normal mix."

Enjoy,

Mixerman

Andrew07 · 29th February 2008

My girlfriend couldn't notice a difference between any of the mixes....but she'd still buy the song

computa · 29th February 2008

the issue is that some vp at a label can always hear a difference, even when it's not there

dwall · 29th February 2008

I believe I could pass this test with .2 vs. .5 differences (why not give it a try?), however, I will admit that there have been times when I have raised the volume on a track and gotten it "just right", only to realize that I was moving the wrong fader and was changing nothing in the mix. I could swear that I heard it changing, though.

robot gigante · 1st March 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by computa

the issue is that some vp at a label can always hear a difference, even when it's not there

ha ha ha- yep!

MarkRB · 1st March 2008

Prefer Mix C myself. I don't like the compression much but that is by the by.

I really think vocal levels are personal. A & B for me are too quiet but they certainly don't qualify as bad mixes. Maybe Mixerman is right and the louder vocal tracks would piss me off after a while.

Thanks for your efforts Kenny, it's great that people can put their balls on the line here.

dreamsongs · 1st March 2008

I would choose B as my final mix and I will guess that's the .5 up one.

In the normal mix the guitars, bass and drums completely swallow the vocal and that can't be a good thing. I always like to hear at least something of what's being sung. That's why I prefer the vocal up slightly. But that's just my humble opinion...

I heard it thru my pc speakers which are pretty decent but it obviously would've been better thru the monitors.,

As I heard it, I would say B,C,A,D in that order.

Kenny Gioia · 1st March 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwall

I believe I could pass this test with .2 vs. .5 differences (why not give it a try?), however, I will admit that there have been times when I have raised the volume on a track and gotten it "just right", only to realize that I was moving the wrong fader and was changing nothing in the mix. I could swear that I heard it changing, though.

I might consider trying that.

Maybe this time I'll throw in a curve. Like one of the mixes will just be the normal mix.

I have been fooled many times by grabbing the wrong fader or EQ.

I purposely chose a crushed mix BTW.

Mixerman · 1st March 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I might consider trying that.

Maybe this time I'll throw in a curve. Like one of the mixes will just be the normal mix.

I have been fooled many times by grabbing the wrong fader or EQ.

I purposely chose a crushed mix BTW.

Personally, I didn't assume that you didn't thrown in a second normal mix anyway.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

28th February 2008	#1
Kenny Gioia Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 8,323 Thread Starter	Vox Up - Vox Down Listening Test Based on a thought from another thread, I decided to make a test to see how small of a volume difference we can all hear. I have nothing to prove here. I'm just curious to see if we can all hear .5dB difference in a Vocal track level. I chose a really dense song on purpose. Let's not discuss the material. Please. I made a normal mix which is the control. Then I made 4 other variations. Mix A, B, C, & D. So there's a Vox up .5dB, Vox up 1dB, Vox down .5dB and a Vox down 1dB. Let's see if we can guess which mix is what. Download it here: Kenny's Download Page Thanks __________________ It's a journey. Not a destination. Enjoy yours.

29th February 2008	#6
Mixerman Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 386	This wasn't even hard, and nearly everyone on this thread, so far, has it right. Mix A down.5db Mix B up .5db Mix C up 1db Mix D dwn 1db The more dialed in your mix, the more obvious the difference will be. Obviously, .5 db seems subtle on the surface of things. But it makes a difference in how the track feels compared to the vocal. And when it's mastered, and limiting has been applied, it becomes an even bigger difference. That said, if you're way out of the ballpark to where the vocal should sit, .5 db won't make a difference. Out of the five mixes, I would recommend using the "Normal mix." Enjoy, Mixerman __________________ Zen and the Art of Mixing NOW AVAILABLE!!!!! Like what you're reading? Join my FB page, and follow my posts right from your newsreader! Ken Scott, Joe McGrath, Wyn Davis, and Mixerman are the Total Access Master Class. Click here to bring your game to the next level. Mixerman.net The Womb Forums The Mixerman Radio Show Eric Sarafin Myspace The Daily Adventures of Mixerman, AVAILABLE online and at a store near you! Worldwide!

1st March 2008	#12
dreamsongs Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: FL Posts: 1,542	I would choose B as my final mix and I will guess that's the .5 up one. In the normal mix the guitars, bass and drums completely swallow the vocal and that can't be a good thing. I always like to hear at least something of what's being sung. That's why I prefer the vocal up slightly. But that's just my humble opinion... I heard it thru my pc speakers which are pretty decent but it obviously would've been better thru the monitors., As I heard it, I would say B,C,A,D in that order. __________________ Dreamsongs BMI Dreamsongs Productions Dreamsongs Publishing BMI Dreamsongs LLC " The dream don't come any closer on it's own, you have to go after it " Me...!

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
How do you multi track hook vox with out being two chorusy.Listening samples included	feedback711	Rap + Hip Hop engineering & production	3	29th September 2007 10:01 PM
Mo' simple listening test this time	RecTeach	High end	5	30th May 2007 02:05 AM
A great blind compressor listening test!	RecTeach	High end	76	28th May 2007 04:32 PM
U87 vs ADK CE small listening test	ISedlacek	High end	21	10th June 2006 03:53 AM
The car listening test....I need a new rig.	cajonezzz	So much gear, so little time!	7	17th November 2003 09:00 PM

28th February 2008	#2
Dean7 Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 310	Well, I could hear a difference for sure, but it was pretty subtle so I might have completely messed things up. Here are my guesses: Mix A - Vox down .5dB Mix B - Vox up .5dB Mix C - Vox up 1dB Mix D - Vox down 1dB -Dean

28th February 2008	#4
dwall Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 328	A -.5 B +.5 C +1 D -1 That's listening on crappy earbuds hooked to my computer. I'll be suprised, but very interested, to learn that I'm wrong though.

28th February 2008	#5
Brenton Gear addict Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 354	C +1 B +.5 A -.5 D -1

29th February 2008	#7
Andrew07 Gear maniac Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 278	My girlfriend couldn't notice a difference between any of the mixes....but she'd still buy the song

29th February 2008	#8
computa Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,613	the issue is that some vp at a label can always hear a difference, even when it's not there

1st March 2008	#11
MarkRB Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 2,500	Prefer Mix C myself. I don't like the compression much but that is by the by. I really think vocal levels are personal. A & B for me are too quiet but they certainly don't qualify as bad mixes. Maybe Mixerman is right and the louder vocal tracks would piss me off after a while. Thanks for your efforts Kenny, it's great that people can put their balls on the line here.