Using Plug-in Effects with a True Hybrid System

[Red Dog]

I've been fully analog in the past, using a loaded recording console and a tape machine with no Intel chips, firewire ports, or DAE errors to speak of. It was a lovely time back then. And when I finally moved to digital, I was fully digital mixing entirely ITB.

But now I'm moving into a hybrid system, using an analog console and a ProTools rig as a true tape machine replacement. I have plenty of outboard dynamics and EQ, but no outboard effects. But I do have a lot of hi-end effects plug-ins and convolution reverbs.

So when working with a hybrid system where you're essentially running all your channels out to a console for mixing and summing, what's the best way to utilize your effects plug-ins? A quick answer is to send any particular channel to the effects plug-in in the DAW first, and then return the plug-in's outputs to a stereo line on the console. This works for the most part, but what if I intend to EQ or insert dynamics across that same channel on the console? Now the plug-in is receiving the signal PRE-console. This is a problem because now the signal being processed isn't what I necessarily wanted in the mix.

Another answer is to create the send from one of the busses on the console, send it back into the DAW to the plug-in, and then return the plug-in effect to a stereo line. But that's a whole lotta D/A/D/A. Not to mention the latency incurred in the process.

So how do any of you fellas approach plug-in effects with a hybrid system. Oh and thank you for the great forum, this is my first post.

[peeder]

Well be aware that even outboard reverbs etc. have AD/DA conversion coming from an analog console, and they also have latency. Of course a Pro Tools HD system will have less latency than an LE system. Reverbs often benefit from pre-delay, so as long as the effect is in parallel you shouldn't be too hard up.

A modulation effect ought to be in series, and if you have latency that way you dislike, you can nudge the audio earlier in time on the session so that it ends up playing back at the same time it would have (you can test this multing it, flipping one, drying the effect and nudging till it nulls).

[Red Dog]

Aye, you are correct sir regarding latency with outboard gear. Perhaps I shouldn't have stressed latency so much, but instead made the point about the logical way and most efficient way to wire this sort of setup up. To send out the DAW to the console, out the console back to the plug-in, and then back to the console for mixing seems like too much A/D/A to be good.

Plenty of you use your DAW outputs to feed an analog console I'm sure. But if you're mixing OTB, how do you utilize your effect plugins?

Routing the plug-ins returns to the console is a start. But sending to the plug-in is where things get hairy. Suggestions?

[peeder]

I suggest don't worry, be happy, because the DAW interface probably has better converters than most of those outboard digital boxes do.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by peeder

I suggest don't worry, be happy, because the DAW interface probably has better converters than most of those outboard digital boxes do.

yup , agreed.

When using a digital reverb you're doing this same AD and DA..... so dont sweat it. Ive got a PCM 80 sat here and it you run a mix through it with the reverb mix set to dry you'll see precisely how "nice" reverb ADs and DAs can be. Now, thats certainly not true on my System 6000 though !! They sound excellent!

[u b k]

since fx are generally run at extremely low levels in the mix, 99/100 times i have no issues treating the send in the daw to approximate what would have happened in the outboard realm.

iow, if you're running a vocal into an outboard la2a and 550b, just set up a buss (or dupe track if you're lazy) for the vocal and treat it with a plugin comp and eq to approximate the outboard, and send *that* to your plugin fx. if it's a buss, make it prefade so your rides don't affect what gets fed to the comp. instead, link the faders so your rides affect what gets fed to the fx, just like a regular aux send setup. make sense?

in time, you'll probably come to find itb effects to be as vaguely unsatisfying as itb comps and summing, which means pcm42's and tc4000's in your rack thumbsup.


gregoire
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ubk
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