Too late to pursue an engineering career?

[ALL*MYTEE]

Hi Joel,

I hope this isn't much off thread--but I think we may be the last two hanging around.

I call this the grape problem--people will take a grape in the grocery store because they perceive the value as so low as to be incalculable and the loss to be inconsequential.

The short answer is that it's happening on it's own and might be gradual. $.99 with hits at $2.99, then three years later hits are $4.99.

Although by that time, someone's got to figure out that all it would take is one person to do it big, with publicity, to start the gold rush. (If you have a couple mill and want to make a couple bil., let me know--I'm that person. All I need to do is meet one bored enough kid with a trust fund.) One killer book, movie, or song could easily do it. The rewards are beyond calculation. Imagine Martha Stewart times Oprah meets the Wu-Tang at a Prada store.

If it didn't happen right away, then after a $14 song floundered, a couple $6 songs might succeed. Then $14 songs succeed after a year or two. I should also add that Someone who drops a $14 song won't be the newest descendant of the The Who/The Jam/Oasis/Strokes/Fratellis lineage (though I think they're all good). They'll be bringing music/attitudes/knowledge/fun/lightness/ideas/memes/whatever that aren't available anywhere else in the market.

A great example is the premium vodka market. Absolute vodka created the "premium" vodka market at $20 bucks a bottle or whatever and got repaid by becoming a mid-level brand by Ketel, which is closer to $100 a bottle. With branding, there is as great a risk in compromising too much as there is going exactly for what you want. Absolute would have had to wait a lot longer for a $100 vodka to take off, but it would be doing almost 5 times less work for almost 5 times more money today if they had.

The question to artists is: how long do you want to do your second album? What kind of an influence do you want to have in ten years? Do you want clothing lines and hip-hop style conglomerations of businesses or do you want to play guitar in an apartment?

Of course, once the dam is broken, it won't matter. Anyone will be able to do anything. The question then is how to most quickly break the dam.

There are a couple longer answers to the theft question:

1. People who buy music buy music because they don't believe in stealing. Raising the price won't turn any but a fraction of these honest folks into pirates. I don't think it has much to do with money--most of these kids are wearing $80-120 jeans. It's just an accepted part of youth culture--one that will probably change as the value of music (and other content) is made more clear.

Certainly, when my $120 book starts selling, it will start a great nationwide, probably worldwide debate about the value of content. And a gut check about the costs of piracy. (Though at this point, piracy is probably helping by speeding the demise of the fixed price system by making it untenable.)

2. A significant fraction of people stealing music do so because the labels and artists themselves have communicated that recorded music is not profitable anyway. They see songs as promo for touring and merch and are reluctant to make strong statements. Fans love their artists and would likely listen to them if they had the balls to take a stand. Bands like Radiohead make is all but okay to steal--by not offering their songs online and then offering some stuff for whatever the consumer wants to pay. They're free to do so, of course--more power to them--but it's just a fashionable attitude. One that comes from punk. (I'm actually surprised that a hip-hop artist hasn't gone the other way for the same marketing reasons.)

$.99 also seems like it goes to iTunes and the label rather than the artist. The most common argument for piracy around here and on Tape Op is that the big bad labels rip off the artists anyway, so let's stick it to em. It doesn't make any sense, because the less the labels get, the less money and support the artists get, but that's people for you. (I'm always shocked that people ostensibly IN THE INDUSTRY feel this way, but whatever, wait till they have a mortgage, kids who need braces and health insurance and want a car that starts reliably.)

Once prices are raised, and recorded music is profitable again, and artists are more highly compensated from recordings than label CEOs (the best artists will have much more negotiating power because they'll bring in much, much more money), many of these arguments will evaporate. I imagine that many artists will choose to operate without labels--or--will own their own labels. This combined with higher prices should put a significant dent in the culture of theft. There will still be stealing, of course, but, like eBay, I believe people are primarily good, and want to do the right thing once they understand what the costs of lazy corruption are. You don't see many (or any) folks stealing bunches of grapes or bags of chips or steaks at the grocery store. Just single--"worthless"--grapes.

In many ways, allowing content prices to float will herald the triumph of the artists over the suits. Once everything is allowed to compete fairly, those who can continually re-create culture will be worth a lot more than those who predictably run organizations (which is why white collar jobs are starting to go offshore.)

Put it this way: when everyone has had 50" plasmas and 15th generation iPhones for ten years, what are they going to care about? New anti-glare technology or what they have to watch and listen to all day? IPhones will be cheap and plentiful and if the pricing structure of music doesn't change, there will be nothing but 7th generation Strokes clones and hip hop artists ripping off the 90s to listen to. New ideas in art at this point in history take an incredible amount of time, energy, love and balls--all of which our current economics put in very short supply.

It used to be that people outside of the normal economy created new art--but now we're all inside. And there's no real way to escape. This is great for people's health and financial well-being, but we'll need different financing to get creators enough time and space to do what they do. Floating prices are the only way to allow this. Once a Nirvana makes $100 billion instead of $100 million, you'll have all kinds of corporations nurturing all sorts of weirdos. And lawyers dropping out to finance their own albums, kids living off credit cards in India to make art, people in college skipping classes to write books instead of software--all kinds of stuff. A real renaissance. Greater rewards=more people trying to get into it AND more people making a living involved in it. That's why we have such killer software--it's content with floating prices!

More studios, more labels, more concert halls, more tv channels, more magazines, more movies, more movie studios--and most of the new stuff (that gets out) better than what's going on today. Why better? More time, more people competing to make it, more and better equipment, larger potential audiences, more faith that they can live doing what they care about (and that's a biggie), etc., etc.

3. Today's low price points generate content that primarily appeals to the 18-34 demographic, and very little of value that appeals to anyone else (except perhaps a slightly younger population). This leaves pretty much everyone with big money out of the equation--all of the grown-ups. Youth culture will most likely stay about the same--and have similar price points to what we see now--just like McDonalds prices their food very cheap to appeal to the greatest number of people.

What higher price points will allow, though, is the equivalent of filet mignon at an intimate romantic restaurant, and sushi, and high tech gadgetry cuisine, and Pan-Asian fusion, and Kobe beef, and organic/local produce, and linen tableclothes, and servers who make $60K a years--whatever people want that isn't supported at an unprofitable .99 per song. We'll be floored that we'd been eating fast food for so long. And, like SUper-Size Me, how few nutrients were actually getting through. (Hey, it tasted good.)

Some songs will still make money selling millions, but others will make money selling hundreds or thousands (or even one!?)--and these more mature, more responsible, more supportive, higher dollar audiences are much less likely to have any interest in stealing, and be much more clear that you only get more in the future of what you pay for today. Adults with money still steal, but at a much lower rate I'd suggest than kids who have convinced themselves that they're "sticking it to the man".

--In any event, it doesn't really matter. If your computer churned out coffee, you'd still want to be part of the Starbucks experience, and you'd likely pay even more for a cup of coffee in their surroundings. More valuable music will bring more valuable clothing lines, more valuable cars, more valuable backpacks--culture is what drives the culture and in many ways the economy. At least then, bands could make money touring two months a year instead of ten, or selling 400 t-shirts a month instead of 4,000.

The bottom line is that people stealing music think that they are "getting over". But all they're doing is making it that much harder for their favorite artist to get back into the studio and write another song. Mature consumers know that there aren't shortcuts and getting over is impossible on all the most important and most valuable levels. Just like cheating on a lover never leads to greater love--stealing never leads to greater prosperity--no matter how often you do it or how long you get away with it.

Towards a premium future..

Eben

[joelpatterson]

Ahoy, Eben!

I've always thought of this site as my own personal blog, anyway. I don't think anyone will mind if we dominate this thread.

I see all the wonders you describe, a more elegant and nutritous and nuturing and seriously entertaining lifestyle... I just don't see what the triggers will be to get there.

The grape in the store, even the management would look on, as the "free sample." Unless you walk into the grocery, eat one grape, and leave, never to return. In the Price Chopper I go to, there are always tables set up by sadly humiliated elderly employees passing out free samples by the bucket. Not as charity, but as an inducement to grab it off the shelf and buy it.

So... it's the distinction between "free sample" and "product" that's been erased by the technology of the internet. Any band these days is delighted if you download a song off their Myspace page, for free obviously. Exposing the public to the free sample, getting them to try it... that's the whole game with music these days.

So... to repeat my "so"... how does this unknown, talented, striving band, elated that you've paused to sample their wares, hoping it finds a prime spot in your iPod shuffle, dare to ask you for $14 for the next song, a song you haven't heard? Or ask you for $14 for the song you just downloaded?

Everything works against that... just my viewpoint, here.

[ALL*MYTEE]

They allow you to listen to a snippet or the whole thing with an annoying dog barking over it or whatever. I agree that the fist time ain't going to be cute. But like getting laid or making decent money, the longer you wait, the more hungry/amped/ready you get. And once it's done, you never go back.

$14 song bands (or $4 song bands) will likely offer listens on Myspace or could even be on the radio. Nothing will be taken away from them and they can still give product away for promo if they think that will help. They'll just be charging more for it once you get to the product on the aisle. All those elderly ladies are very shrewdly figured into the marketing costs of those companies--which raises the price of their goods. That's called turning a profit, if the cost of those ladies was running them out of business, they'd be out of business. Giving those sample away is MAKING THEM MONEY, not costing them money.

Once the music industry follows the same math as those companies, we'll be getting somewhere. Right now they give it away but don't raise prices, which is economic suicide, as many A&R reps and VPs now know first hand. (Even the top execs at labels are making much less than 10 years ago.)

The trigger is that grape sampling (or grazing as it's called) isn't bringing down the grocery industry. Or even the grape industry. People aren't stealing 25 grapes for every one sold as they are in music. They're stealing 1 for every 100 sold--which is manageable and predictable waste, not terminal cancer. They're also adjusting their prices to cover that theft. Every industry has theft, wastage and promotion--all figured into their prices. Except in music and other content industries--that's the problem.

Music piracy is forcing a pricing change because it's destroying the host. Sooner or later labels will have to raise prices or go out of business. Or get more harried and take pay cuts. I can imagine an all amateur culture as some have theorized, but I can't imagine more than a small minority interested in it. Sooner or later someone will just charge what it costs to make a movie, or a song, or whatever.

Real estate prices are going up. As are electricity prices and gas prices. The music industry has survived for 20 or 30 years by introducing new formats and people rebuying back catalog. But now that we're digital, that will happen less and less. Buying a higher resolution song won't make you able to play it on the bus as buying a cassette did. Or fit it in your pocket as an iPod did. This means that they're coming to a point of no return.

If labels choose to go out of business (or focus on touring instead of recording), then they will likely sell their assets. When they sell their assets, it is extremely unlikely that the investors who buy them will choose to continue on at a loss. Most likely they will raise prices for their most valuable content.

Everything was stacked against the fall of the Soviet Union as well, but look how quick that evaporated. Music is a socialized system and all that socialized systems have done over the last 100 years is go away. They can't feed their people and they run into increasing negative pressure the longer they exist. They've gone away in a million different ways, but they've all gone away. It's a structural problem and market pricing is an inevitable solution. That's what the 20th century was all about. Fascism, Communism and all the other isms were controlled economic systems. And they all failed. The few left are failing as we speak. Or reforming their way out of control and into freedom and market policies.

A couple mil. in advertising for my book The Love Artist could do it easily. The headline: "A $120 Paperback--are you f$#@ing crazy?" would sell thousands alone. After that, it's on. The harder it gets to make money in traditional publishing (and everywhere else), the more interested capital becomes in new ideas. If I inherit some money or meet a bored trust fund kid, it's over.

That's the beauty of the market--it punishes what has already been done and rewards what has never been done. Which is why it's perfect for the delivery of content--when allowed to operate freely.

From sunny Chi-town...

[bigos]

I dont understand why the industry cant come up with a technological solution to music piracy. Im not a high tech minded person so excuse me if I come off sounding naive on the subject.
Would it be possible for the music industry to to create a sort of ilock for downloaded music. Would it be possible for this to work in the say that music software works with an ilock. I figured that if for example some big label like virgin decided to release the new album of lets say Madonna or Metallica by download only via an ilock acount then people would buy the new hardware so that they can hear the music of one of their favorite artists. The industry could even only offer 24 bit quality and figure out a way so that the music cant be turned into mp3's. this would be a risk and it might in turn put the power back into the big labels hands. maby new player will come out that require an "ilock" attachmentI am seriously considering releasing my next album as 24 bit only or vinal. Why should all this money and energy be spent on highend gear only to have the sound degraded in the end.

[mbradzick]

Originally Posted by bigos

Why should all this money and energy be spent on highend gear only to have the sound degraded in the end.

I was JUST contemplating this. We're seeing a shift in what the consumer calls "good". And, I'm beginning to think that what the consumer considers "good" is what's in front of their face when they're having a good time. For instance, 40 oz to Freedom sounds like crap compared to Sublime Sublime, yet college kids couldn't get enough of 40 oz even though it's all taken from shitty come recordings and mixed and mastered by pros.

Bottom line is this: if we wanna make money off our passion, we're gonna have to adapt and give the consumer what they want, through the avenue they want to get it from. If they gon't give a rat's ass about where/how it was recorded but it's the song they love to hear when they're drunk or just broke up with someone, then that's what we have to do.

[CDS]

To ALL*MYTEE, bigos and Mitch97,
(Admins please forgive us if this thread has become too pirated)

$14 for a song, well what if I was to tell you that this may not be too far off! Can the industry stop piracy? On a dime they could! Give consumers something of quality and they will pay, simple....

I know these things above to be true because I personally have several patents pending documenting the technology to deliver it . The starting specification of this new technology is Retail Zip, which is due out in a few weeks.

In my former career, I worked in the optical disc industry. During this time, I was able to meet directly with a few of the worlds most influential decision makers with regards to world standards and formats (in relation to audio and video). One of the shocking things i've heard from that time was from a glassmastering engineer that said:

"I don't get these record companies, we can activate the copy protection bit on the glassmaster and all the computer drives are made to respect it and disallow digital copies. But no one never requests it."

Here's the deal; Major Label tech people are not like the tech people at Microsoft or Apple. Many of them are friends and family members of the main execs placed there to milk the paycheck. A major sign that the current establishment of major companies will never get it right is the fact that Apple owns the iPod and iTunes, not the industry, game over! EMI may have a shot because they just hired an ex-Google exec, a very good move.

On another note, the music business will continue, but we believe it will only move forward with direct offerings from supplier to buyers, meaning artists/management to fans.

Back to this $14 song theory:

What if I was to tell you that we already have a read only version of our technology that can deliver 2 track MP3/lossless, 2 channel 24 bit, and 32 multitrack versions of a song for playback on buyer side gear?

Imagine buying 1 file format and having the choice to listen to your favorite song with up to 32 tracks controllable for muting and profiles to save your different song prefs (vocals and strings only, no drums and vocals, strings only). You would be able to connect a flash drive to your computer and transfer 2 channel versions from this file format to listen in your car or headphones, and what if I told you you would be able to easily sync to your home library through wifi/3g and have "anywhere" access to your song library.

I dont want to go off too long on this, but we already have this technology, but when you single handedly create the system that a zillion $200 million dollar a year R&D departments cant even come close to figuring out, it will take time to gain the corporate support needed for our "read only" format roll out.

But for now, Retail Zip is something we can offer which will give us the "market cred" we need to present the full specification of the technology we have in store.

Not making any promises but maybe one day we will look at this thread in the future and laugh on how we are paying $20 a song when we only though we would only be paying $14 lol, you never know

[bigos]

wow!!! I really hope that your new product takes off. I think that a way for a product like yours to enter the market would be to convince a famous band or a few famous bands to release their new album through your product.
If all the gearslutz decided to only release productions from their studios through your new patent then that would make a serious dent in the industry. Gearslutz turning into an economic powerhouse would be funny but wishful thinking. Once your ready with the product let me know I would be willing to help you market it or spread the word. maby my career depends on it.
best of luck
Bigos

[CDS]

Originally Posted by bigos

wow!!! I really hope that your new product takes off. I think that a way for a product like yours to enter the market would be to convince a famous band or a few famous bands to release their new album through your product.
If all the gearslutz decided to only release productions from their studios through your new patent then that would make a serious dent in the industry. Gearslutz turning into an economic powerhouse would be funny but wishful thinking. Once your ready with the product let me know I would be willing to help you market it or spread the word. maby my career depends on it.
best of luck
Bigos

Hey thanks,

I already got the "ok" from the admin here to include a Retail Zip demo link with the announcement we are going to make in the "New Products" section soon (not saying GS is endorsing, just that they know about our pending announcement)

We are working extremely hard to make sure RZ is a great tool for everyone needs. We are still working on the site and you can gain a sneak peek here: www.retailzip.com.

If our Viral Retail feature takes off, i would imagine a huge dent it could be

I will save the rest of the RZ talk for the announcement thread but it's ironic how this product was born because I wanted a easier way to help my clients sell their music I recorded and mixed (without limitations of distribution and real time payments).

My engineering and production discipline has been the best education to know what needs to happen with a digital retail tech

[joelpatterson]

Piracy? Piracy? If I grab a little Dixie cup full of Cheese Nips from the little old lady, and that makes me a pirate?

Stealing? Stealing? This music is floating around in the air. It's at the touch of a button. People are beggin me to listen to it, they're not holding it in one hand and a snarling dog in the other.

Although... I do have some exceptional snarling dog foley... maybe I should jump on this bandwagon...


[This space is reserved for the 0:22 clip of Sadie the golden retriver yipping, growling, and making menace... I mean, there would seem to be a technical difficulty with uploading MP3's, AND WE'RE GETTING ANNOYED WITH IT IF I DO SAY SO...]

[ALL*MYTEE]

There's a big difference between taking something that's being offered for free and downloading a Rolling Stones or Metallica song off of Limewire. One's legal and one's stealing.

People are begging you to listen to unpopular, undiscovered or sub-par music. No one is begging you to listen to popular, discovered music. If you are happy living off the freebies, then more power to you. We enjoy the luxuries we do because we live under the rule of law, which states that stealing other people's property--intellectual, physical or creative--is a crime. The law is very clear about this, which is why they can prosecute people who steal music.

You can try living in a place without the rule of law if you like, but I don't think any of today's "pirates" are tough enough to actually make it there. They rely on the rule of law when they like it and disregard it when it doesn't suit them. Like children.

A copied MP3 is someone else's property no matter how much it costs or doesn't cost to make--just as pirated software is someone else's property.

To say that some people are offering freebies, so I can take anything I want is wack. Some people offer free plug-ins, but that doesn't make stealing Waves plugs legal, right or okay. Someone offering samples of Cheetos doesn't make it okay to steal Wheaties does it?

That's the fuzzy logic that people who justify piracy rely on. And my point is that it much fewer people would be able to maintain this fuzzy logic if songs that were worth money were priced like it. Since they're all $.99, it's easy for people with lazy logic to say they're all worth the same thing--and since some are worth nothing, they must all be worth nothing.

You don't think that all compressors are worth the same amount do you? Or all cars or houses? And you don't know how much they cost to make--that's irrelevant. The person who owns them gets to set the terms and conditions under which they are sold and used. In the case of music, those terms state very clearly that you may only listen to them for your own pleasure--if you even play them at a business, you must pay more money for a license.

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by ALL*MYTEE

... Or all cars or houses? ....

Stealing a car or stealing a house is fundamentally different from stealing music.

"Stealing Music" sounds like a David Bowie album from the early 70's, anyway.

No one is forcing 18 wheelers to the side of the road and shovelling out cartons of CDs into Jeep Laredo's... the process of advertising/exposing/offering/selling music is blurring, unfortunately, this is upending some solid judicial precedents, when tangible physical property (and its attendant value) melts into invisible and weightless data property.

I don't have all the answers-- I don't have any answers at all-- I just know we ain't going back, not from here on forward.

[8th_note]

I just stumbled upon this thread and I would like to respond to the original question. There are several excellent posts but I might be able to add a couple things.

I didn't start recording until I was 45. It was something that I always wanted to do but I didn't get the opportunity (college, job, kids, new job with lots of travel, advancement and long hours, further ladder climbing, etc.). I've been doing it for about 7 years now as a hobby.

Here's a few things I think you should consider:

1) As a practical matter is is almost impossible to make a decent living being a recording engineeer. I know some people do it but it is just about the hardest way to put food on the table there is.

2) You don't know you want to be a recording engineer - you just think you do. You haven't recorded yet. If you had set up a home studio when you were 14, recorded 50 different bands by now, were the go-to guy for a small indie label or two, had done sound for a couple of medium size touring bands, and were a recording legend in your local community, I would say you had a good start and maybe, just maybe, you might be able to make a decent living from recording.

3) Assuming you decide that you want to go to medical school you might want to think about a medical discipline that would allow you time for a hobby. I love the ideas above about hearing related medicine.

4) Learning how to record isn't the problem. The problem is finding customers. If you enjoy going to shows, meeting new musicians, and being part of the local music scene then you will be in a position to get customers. Otherwise you'll be sitting with several thousand dollars of gear collecting dust.

5) Think about why you want to record. In other words, what aspects of recording are you attracted to. In my case I've found that I really enjoy the social interaction as much as the tracking and mixing. I've become friends with many of the people I've recorded and that has become the most rewarding aspect. My clients sense this and they enthusiastically provide references. I can do a very high quality recording with my modest setup but frankly, they can get a good quality recording a lot of places.

6) It's probably not a good idea to practice medicine as a hobby. But recording for a hobby is OK. If you have the opportunity to pursue a career in medicine and it's something you want to do, you could be in the wonderful position of having a job you love and a hobby you love.

7) And finally, think about whether or not you want to make recording your "work". I'm very glad I don't have the pressure of trying to make a living doing this. I charge modest rates, all my work comes from word of mouth, and if I don't think I will enjoy working with a particular client I don't have to. For me, it's the ideal situation. I have my niche, and several of my clients have gone on to get record deals and record in larger, full-time professional studios. I'm proud that I could play a part in their development.

[bigos]

I dropped out of medical school at 18 (in india they start young) to pursue music and a useless Liberal Arts degree in The USA. I probably should have stayed there worked for 5 years as a doctor and then start a studio. At least I wouldnt be a broke ass musician heavily in debt with a new studio. On the other hand I might have never become a decent musician if I would have stayed in medical school. Though there is time in medical school to practice music or pursue other hobbies. Even at the conservatory many of the best musicians I knew were the ones who thought properly about practicing and could maximize 2 hours a day insted of wasting 8 hours a day. If you are the well organized type (Im not) then you should have no problem pursuing both music and medicine at the same time.

[ALL*MYTEE]

Becoming a Dr. for the spare time--that's rich!

So much fear~~~~~~~

The question is a fundamental one: do you want to live now or do you want to make money and then try to live later? Is your life a hobby or the main event? There are plenty of people who will tell you that your dreams are pipe dreams--and they will have lots and lots of "reasons". But you'll never know for yourself until you head off into the great unknown.

Do you want to have your life be about what you want your life to be about or do you want to try to get a little living in after you retire. Remember, when you retire, you could be a moderately wrecked workaholic, exhausted, be twice divorced, have already told everyone you care about that you're a doctor not an engineer and convinced yourself that life is toil instead of enjoyable--in other words, past the point of no return. Life has a way of taking over. Significant others, kids, friends--a lot of these are related to what we do for work--and most of them have expectations about where we'll be Saturday night.

Will you tell your kids to follow their dreams? Or tell them to get a job and pursue them as a hobby? I've tried the "Plan B" route and somehow, it never quite works out. The universe is waiting for each of us to tell it what we want--to commit.

I've tried both, and the only time I was truly f$c*ed was with $20,000 in the bank, my own business, 7 months off a year, traveling the world and no freaking clue of who I was (or how I had gotten to such a place of ignorance). After I quit to write a book I was F8c*ed, but perhaps not truly. At least it was a somewhat fun and dramatic fu*ked--rather than a desparate, bottomless, empty, existential fu(*ed.

Despite what they say, it's never too late to switch horses, but the longer and deeper you get invested into things you don't truly love, the longer and harder it is to remember, discover and untie all those knots. You may never get back to the freedom and lightness you had--that's the risk we run. Which is not to say that some people aren't doing exactly what they want being doctors with recording hobbies--I'm sure some are. But if they're doing medicine for money and would rather be recording, then they're *****d in the eyes of their soul. And no Ferrari or unused boutique gear can fix that. (If they're recording and they'd rather be playing they're *****d in the eyes of their soul, too--I've seen that as well. Your soul is going to pay the bills, and you may certainly record, or sling burritos to do that before anything else happens, but it's a pretty exacting taskmaster.)

If you ask me, the question is are you going to base you decisions on faith or fear? Are you going to be afraid or relaxed while you do whatever you do?

And BTW, I just rented a mic to a studio newbie who just quit his day job. He's holed up in a very well insulated practice space with relatively small amounts of gear undercutting even the punk studios. And just bought a new motorcycle. And just got his first label gig.

With all the financial problems around studios and music resulting from fixed prices it's easy to forget that more people than any point in history are involved in making music as their primary form of income. And that people are richer than any point in history.

When Tony Hawk started skating, he and a whole bunch of other skaters assumed that they'd have to grow up and get real jobs when they got out of high school.

Now they're managing multiple multi-million dollar companies and scheduling time to film Cribs.

I'm not saying that pursuing engineering will cause immediate enlightenment, but I know enough people who went the other way to know that trying to get alive from Friday night to Sunday evening does not work. If you don't believe me, go try it out for five or ten years and feel it for yourself.

You won't get somewhere you're not heading.

[joelpatterson]

That is so inspiring, really makes me feel that the choices I made weren't so lunatic as they seemed at the time. Well, I mean, they were, but I was following my inner gyroscope. Like they say... you got to have a dream, if you don't have a dream, how you gonna have a dream come true?

[mbradzick]

I say F the world and go with what you love. I started playing guitar at the age of 12. Two years later I was playing in bars. Four years later I got a Music Industry degree and worked in the sound department of a film school. Four years later I'm working some shit job because I was too scared and didn't know exactly what I wanted to do. Now I do and I'm ready to leave the nest and do what I love full time.

You can't put a price tag on contentment. When I get up in the morning I'm dead. When I get home from work I'm alive. I want to be alive 24/7. What needs to happen first is knowing exactly what you want to do and get out of life, then go do it.

[Sugarnutz]

I wuz an amateur gynecologist at one point in my career, but I just couldn’t control myself enough to make it all the way through an exam. I guess engineering was meant for me, no career in medicine.

[E-Tron]

If you can grasp the difference between MIDI & audio, you'll be alright, man.
Follow your heart; there's no right/wrong answer.


ps: I HATE my dad!!! (J/K)

[Radiogal]

Hi. I realy suggest u get a real certificated audio engineering education. Those who "learned for themselves" might have been lucky, but one realy needs real paper and Diplomas to get the real jobs. After that u have to built ur own career and reputaion, as always.

From the beginning I learned the job by myself, but I realy got all the jobs I ever wanted after I got my knowledge printed on a diploma. And YES I learned A LOT eventhough I thought "I knew it all..." before.

If u do so, be aware of choosing the right college. Not every college is accepted and recognized by the industry.

SAE Institute has colleges worldwide and due the fact one has to pas 70% theoreticly and practicly, and the fact The SAE courses are equal in all countries, this gives one a guaranteed certificate and Diploma recognized by the industry all over the world.
In fact I have plenty of job oppurtunities here in Sweden and abroad due the fact I have my Audio Engineering Diploma from SAE. So many opportunities, that I share them with my former classmates from SAE.

One thing to consider:
If u can invest in expensive soon-out-of-date-gear, at one point one has to consider investing in human knowledge that remains and developes for the rest of ur life.

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by Radiogal

The SAE courses are equal in all countries, this gives one a guaranteed certificate and Diploma recognized by the industry all over the world.

I can only assume that posting was a joke! It is recognised for what it really is!

What Behringer did for equipment, the SAE did for education.

[lordmiguel]

Originally Posted by The Byre

Becoming a successful engineer (as opposed to someone who has to work in a music store, or shelf-stack at the local Wallmart, to make ends meet) is no harder than becoming a doctor of medicine.

I take it you are a doctor then?
This must rival one of the stupidest things i have ever heard on GS.

Originally Posted by CDS

Not making any promises but maybe one day we will look at this thread in the future and laugh on how we are paying $20 a song when we only though we would only be paying $14 lol, you never know

To the original poster, what you will miss is working with people who are not total morons or used car salesman, drug addicts or all around losers.

There is a concept called setting yourself up. As in, who has the patience to build a foundation for a house? Lets just start whacking nails and wood on the beach, **** the foundation.

To run after a career in a massively shrinking market is not building much of a financial foundation. In 10 years you will have a studio to envy most of these jokers around here. And you will hire them to do whatever grunt work you don't want to, and they will gladly lick your feet to do so.

*And then you can make music comfortable for the rest of your life*

do yourself a favor and set yourself up. the music inside you will thank yourself, you will be able to pay your bills and won't have to marry a woman who has to take care of you.

[CDS]

Originally Posted by lordmiguel

I take it you are a doctor then?
This must rival one of the stupidest things i have ever heard on GS.



To the original poster, what you will miss is working with people who are not total morons or used car salesman, drug addicts or all around losers.

There is a concept called setting yourself up. As in, who has the patience to build a foundation for a house? Lets just start whacking nails and wood on the beach, **** the foundation.

To run after a career in a massively shrinking market is not building much of a financial foundation. In 10 years you will have a studio to envy most of these jokers around here. And you will hire them to do whatever grunt work you don't want to, and they will gladly lick your feet to do so.

*And then you can make music comfortable for the rest of your life*

do yourself a favor and set yourself up. the music inside you will thank yourself, you will be able to pay your bills and won't have to marry a woman who has to take care of you.

I remember when gas was only $0.95 a gallon, how stupid is $3.69 a gallon?

[lordmiguel]

Originally Posted by CDS

I remember when gas was only $0.95 a gallon, how stupid is $3.69 a gallon?

a true intellectual. by the time a song is $20 bucks a candy bar will be $30. if you are relying on inflation to make money by all means, you should go for it. but you should also know you will be none the richer. everything else will be more expensive.

the logic on this board never ceases to amaze me.

[CDS]

Originally Posted by lordmiguel

a true intellectual. by the time a song is $20 bucks a candy bar will be $30. if you are relying on inflation to make money by all means, you should go for it. but you should also know you will be none the richer. everything else will be more expensive.

the logic on this board never ceases to amaze me.

The original reference that the "$20 per song" reply was to a "perspective post" by another member.

NIN Ghost I-IV Special Edition sold out at $300 thus resulting in a per song cost of about $9.30.

Example of a perspective post:

When someone buys a ProTools Digi003 and only get around to creating 12 songs because "inflation" makes them have to work 2 jobs just to pay the rent, some people my friend are already paying $100 a song.

As for the logic of this board, it is usually from the perspective of professionals.

Regards

-Will

[lordmiguel]

cds eating paint chips or glue sniffing are never recommended. you really should be careful.

[mbradzick]

Originally Posted by lordmiguel

I take it you are a doctor then?
This must rival one of the stupidest things i have ever heard on GS.



To the original poster, what you will miss is working with people who are not total morons or used car salesman, drug addicts or all around losers.

There is a concept called setting yourself up. As in, who has the patience to build a foundation for a house? Lets just start whacking nails and wood on the beach, **** the foundation.

To run after a career in a massively shrinking market is not building much of a financial foundation. In 10 years you will have a studio to envy most of these jokers around here. And you will hire them to do whatever grunt work you don't want to, and they will gladly lick your feet to do so.

*And then you can make music comfortable for the rest of your life*

do yourself a favor and set yourself up. the music inside you will thank yourself, you will be able to pay your bills and won't have to marry a woman who has to take care of you.

Yeah, and in 10 years he may have wasted his happiness, sanity, and the worst of all, TIME, because chances are the long and arduous hours at the hospital will not allow him the time it takes to learn the skills to create a name for himself in the music industry if that's what he's seeking. I think the OP doesn't wanna just sit around and tinker with recording but actually assist in making a social impact through music. Isn't that why most of us do it?

I understand wanting to take the money route and work around to building a studio when you're older, but I couldn't do it. I just did it for the last 4 years and ALMOST regret every minute of it. Yes, money makes the world go round and it's a necessity, and yes there are a ton of people fighting for jobs in a shrinking industry, but where do you wanna spend your life? Working with what you love day in and day out or hating your life from 8 to 5, only to come home and stare at your Deluxe Reverb and '59 strat cause you're too burnt out to play.

I lived with a girl a few years ago whose dad was an OBGYN (that's a doctor geniuses). Lived in a great cabin in NorCal, had a couple horses and a hot wife, and every night after a long drive from the clinic and hating hating hating his job he came home and pounded two dry martinis before fighting with his pill ingesting spouse.

He wanted to direct movies his whole life.

[Radiogal]

Originally Posted by The Byre

I can only assume that posting was a joke! It is recognised for what it really is!

What Behringer did for equipment, the SAE did for education.

With all respect for ur opinion, but u comparing Behringer to SAE might be the only joke here.
I suppose there are other great colleges around, but I mention SAE due the fact they are recognized world wide.
And as a matter of fact, so did you!!
And YES! SAE gave me the fast lane to real jobs in the music & broadcasting industry, as I wrote earlier about getting plenty of job oppurtunities. Ofcourse during the years in the bizz I got my own qualified reputation.. but still, without SAE I might never been where I am today! I´m working fulltime with my studio, my record company and radio broadcasting for national networks.
I can only talk for myself but I keep insisting that at one point one has to invest in knowledge and put it on paper if ur serious about working in the bizz.

[SighBorg]

Would it be possible for the music industry to to create a sort of ilock for downloaded music. Would it be possible for this to work in the say that music software works with an ilock. I figured that if for example some big label like virgin decided to release the new album of lets say Madonna or Metallica by download only via an ilock acount then people would buy the new hardware so that they can hear the music of one of their favorite artists.

If you can hear it you can copy it. All it would take would for one person to record the playback of a song, encode it as mp3, and distribute. That's what would happen even if such a system weren't breakable.

Technology wise the only way I could think of that they could do would be to create a unique stamp superimposed on the recording for every copy they legitimately distribute - one stamp identifying the song with another identifying the unique purchase - & then go after the person who was the source of creating/pirating the original illegal copy. Even then I would think it would be possible to mess with the stamp by simply comparing several legitimate copies or knowing what it looks like. You'd catch the Joe Blow pirate but not the "pros".

This type of system would probably be most useful identifying and removing illegal copies of songs on sites like Imeem.com, Youtube, and Myspace since the uploaded files are held by a single entity... unlike Torrent files and p2p which are essentially uncontrollable once it's on the networks.

Sorry for going off topic.

[CDS]

Originally Posted by Kelly644

If you can hear it you can copy it. All it would take would for one person to record the playback of a song, encode it as mp3, and distribute. That's what would happen even if such a system weren't breakable.

Technology wise the only way I could think of that they could do would be to create a unique stamp superimposed on the recording for every copy they legitimately distribute - one stamp identifying the song with another identifying the unique purchase - & then go after the person who was the source of creating/pirating the original illegal copy. Even then I would think it would be possible to mess with the stamp by simply comparing several legitimate copies or knowing what it looks like. You'd catch the Joe Blow pirate but not the "pros".

This type of system would probably be most useful identifying and removing illegal copies of songs on sites like Imeem.com, Youtube, and Myspace since the uploaded files are held by a single entity... unlike Torrent files and p2p which are essentially uncontrollable once it's on the networks.

Sorry for going off topic.

The cure to this dreaded illegal audio activity is so drop dead easy that any smart 6th grader can come up with it.

Solution:

Create a world/industry software and hardware standard that requires a "User Key" to be written to the header of all digital media files, then make sure this "User Key" has to be entered in to all devices that a user want to access the media.

Very easy to do, simply deny playback of files on all and any devices where the key does not match.

Done, industry stability back and vibrant... the only problem though?

The greedy, stupid, old school (model) skeleton crews running the major companies needed to agree on such a system.

I personally have a solution like this waiting in the wings, but it may never come to light, I am personally tired of inventing "Industry Saving" technology only to waste years trying to get them to adopt, then when they don't, have to hear "oh well uhh maybe you was right".

If a user can get a burnable DVD, a full quality WAV version of a album plus extras over the internet for the same price it cost a content owner to move a aac/mp3 album over iTunes, I really think this is the solution, i.e. QUALITY.

^ Courtesy of yours truly, the above scenario will begin to be a serious reality around July 2008

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by CDS

... simply deny playback...

I'm going to take a wild guess what will happen to files that are encoded this way...

THEY WILL NOT GET PLAYED BACK!


Yes sir, that's one brilliant solution, right there.....