How do you deal with tech support phone calls when you are not tech support?

[ryst]

As most everyone else here does, I meet a lot of people. And a lot of them use Pro Tools just like me. Numbers or emails are exchanged and then you move on. I get a lot of people who call me asking for help when they can't do something in PT. Whether it's a mixing question, a technical problem or whatever.

To me time is money and I don't have the time to help people who would rather use me as their source of free info instead of trying to work harder to get better. How do you deal with this?

I know it's a strange question to ask on an audio forum that has a great group of guys who go out of their way to help people for free.

Do you guys just answer anyone question that anyone asks? Do you charge for your time to help them?

Do you extend the same courtesy to people who aren't involved in this community? Or do you feel like some people try to take advantage of you and use you as their personal tech support?

[taturana]

Originally Posted by ryst

As most everyone else here does, I meet a lot of people. And a lot of them use Pro Tools just like me. Numbers or emails are exchanged and then you move on. I get a lot of people who call me asking for help when they can't do something in PT. Whether it's a mixing question, a technical problem or whatever.

To me time is money and I don't have the time to help people who would rather use me as their source of free info instead of trying to work harder to get better. How do you deal with this?

I know it's a strange question to ask on an audio forum that has a great group of guys who go out of their way to help people for free.

Do you guys just answer anyone question that anyone asks? Do you charge for your time to help them?

Do you extend the same courtesy to people who aren't involved in this community? Or do you feel like some people try to take advantage of you and use you as their personal tech support?

I tell them to email me the question and i´ll try to answer it when i can...most times they won´t even bother to email at all...
problem solved

i know some people who only call me when they have a problem in their computers...

if anybody has other suggestions i´d love to hear them...

[sguali]

are you serious?

My point is that why can't you just say to these people "Not now, kind of busy"

And don't you find it nice to help people out?
Yes, it got to be stressfull if you get 1 phone call per hour asking
"How do i make ne track..."

Solve this problem by consulting < 5 people in 2 hour session.. 35$ per session. And there you are: No more phone calls and extra income..

[leaper]

Yes.. if i'm busy, then i'm busy. usually don't even answer the phone!
But will always later find time to help people out. We're all in this together.
I appreciate it soooo much when people can help me out.. certainly not going to turn my back on an opportunity to redress the balance.
It's possible that once in a while i've had a psychic leech phoning numerous times about things (can't really recall.. but it's possible) but basically it's people who are stuck in the mud and want to move on. of course they leave you alone once you've given them a push out of the pit they found themselves in.

[diamondjim]

If its a quick question that you can answer without having to do research, then help out when you have the time, otherwise if they start getting to be too much, I just politely ask them if they want to hire me as a consultant, or would they rather do the research online. Mostly they would rather not pay, so unless its a relationship building thing, or if they are a PITA, I refer them elsewhere.

This applys to lots of areas, not just music. Mostly people just ask me if I fix computers. At that point I get out my hammer....and I don't mean the EQ.

[HoPMiX]

Originally Posted by ryst

As most everyone else here does, I meet a lot of people. And a lot of them use Pro Tools just like me. Numbers or emails are exchanged and then you move on. I get a lot of people who call me asking for help when they can't do something in PT. Whether it's a mixing question, a technical problem or whatever.

To me time is money and I don't have the time to help people who would rather use me as their source of free info instead of trying to work harder to get better. How do you deal with this?

I know it's a strange question to ask on an audio forum that has a great group of guys who go out of their way to help people for free.

Do you guys just answer anyone question that anyone asks? Do you charge for your time to help them?

Do you extend the same courtesy to people who aren't involved in this community? Or do you feel like some people try to take advantage of you and use you as their personal tech support?

ryst, maybe its just me..
but you wake up on the wrong side of the bed dude. you dont wanna give up any connections, you don't want to help anyone.. your money Low cuzin?
look man. 2 things to consider here.
If you are doing music for a living. your blessed. For that reason alone, you should be willing to help anyone that you feel is truly passionate about what they do, no matter what level they are at. If they are just some hacks and you feel like they dont give a damn about the craft, then why you even talking to em period.

the other thing,
You just never know whos gonna blow. and i learned the hard way. I wen tto college with some cats, i was doing seriously underground shit. bumpin lootpack and diggin for hard to find breaks. radio show that only played "real Hip Hop"
and i knew these cats that were doing that master p crap. the music sucked to me and i wouldn't go near it. but they always asked me for beats and how to do this and that. id be like hell na, yall are wack.. but somehow they were selling crazy units to college kids and i saw that damn sticker everywhere. then they got a deal. i didnt get it. they still asked me for beats, exact words"we got big money now, you be paid"
still im like HELL NAH.....
then they promo'd, recorded 2 albums that got shelfed, everyone was laughing at em. I thought damn.. these cats really out here grinding man. so i ran into em, asked em if i could hear what they were working on.. and it was night n day. dudes really developed and the music was hot. you guys got somthign here man.. that was the third album they recorded. it dropped 3 months later and sold 1.2 mil.
i coulda been on that album if i wasn't such a DICK!!!!
now they are one of my favorite groups. and i work with em talk to em everyday. great friends of mine.
point is. lighten up dude..
its just music.
and if your any good, no one gonna steal your shine..
I promise, your not doing anything so original that it cant be copied, or someone else hasn't already got that idea.

[Corran]

Yeah I have this problem a lot!!

If I can't explain something in 5 minutes or less over the phone, I tell them I will come over and show them for $20 a session, more if it's an extended deal. It's actually a pretty good rap for me; I know a local guy who is very old and doesn't understand computers at all...I've made over $500 from him, and he pays me in gear sometimes (gave me an 8-track tape reel-to-reel for free for a few hours of tech support!).

[danasti]

I believe it all comes down to: "how are you best able to help somebody?"

Engineering is a trade and a skilled profession. Like automotive repair, dentistry or software application design, engineering audio is something that requires the person to learn and continue learning. A person who designs complex medical instruments will use CAD drawing software to design something for production. A recording engineer will turn to Pro Tools (or other software) in much of the same way - to record, develop and design the audio. One of the big differences in Audio Engineering is that many people who purchase Pro Tools (or other recording equipment) have limited, or even zero, experience in pro audio and/or little competence with a computer or software. Rarely do you see this happen in other trades and professions. There is alot of DIY and teach yourself in professional audio engineering which I think can be both good and bad.

What happens is you have people who have made substantial investments in Pro Tools software, audio equipment and computers and little skill or knowledge in how to use them. On top of the financial aspect, you have people who have no idea of whether or not they have an ear for recording or blending music. You have people who obviously have alot of passion for music but not everyone who has passion is going to make a good engineer. It doesn't work like that unfortunately. They can eventually learn the technical aspects much like a surgeon can learn all the steps and instruments. However, you can't teach a good ear just like you can't teach extremely steady hands and a virtually unshakable sense of calm and focus. The point is: a good many people who max out their credit cards for Pro Tools and expensive gear are going to find out the hard way that a profession in audio is not their calling.

I do try and help people whenever I can. However, if I know the answer is in the manual or is a basic recording issue then I want to know they have the hunger to find it on their own. I've learned to not hold people's hands because they become reliant on you for everything. It has gotten to the point in the past where people would stop looking or even trying - they would just call me or somebody else. That's something I feel is extremely unhelpful. I always ask myself: Is this person working hard on their own? Because this is the best way for them to really learn - by learning how to teach themselves!

I have a friends where we all share information. We help eachother out. However, this is a two-way street. It's a community where we all put something in; we all get something out. I've had alot of people come to me with a "Pro Tools" question but they don't want an answer, they actually want you to do it for them. Sometimes the question is easy to answer but it requires more knowledge to put it into practice. They are asking a question that is in "chapter 22" but their skill level is "chapter 3". They don't actually know why they are asking the question. I will have to go through 19 previous chapters of information with them and have them learn it proficiently before they can use the first answer in their work. Of course, some people aren't going to understand this. I like to point people to information so they can answer their own question because that's how I like to learn. I believe that's how we grow best.

You have to ask this: Is you helping them out keeping them involved a profession that they are not suited for? Are they not learning how to learn? Are you possibly holding them back from their true calling in life?

Good Luck!

[psycho_monkey]

I have people who I call for help (if I'm REALLY stuck!)

I have people who call me for the same reason (sometimes they're the same people).

But just about everyone understands "bit busy right now - later?"

If someone doesn't.....eventually they'll get ignored!

[Pasta4lnch]

I get this a lot to. and for the people considerate to my time I will help anytime of the day. for the ones who insist I stay on the phone the whole time "just in case I'm wrong" for the thing to process and especially the ones who call before they think, it does get kinda anoying.
I'd like to think that by helping these people, that when I'm stuck someone will help me. . . . sadly this hasn;t proved true.

[theblue1]

As a one person (core) web/database dev shop, I have to do my share of tech support type explaining -- and it's a drag, for sure. (It's been better as I've done more web dev... folks seem to understand the paradigm pretty well at this point.)


But that leaves precious little time and energy for answering questions on demand.

I do try to get into BBs and answer questions I'm qualified for -- but as I fall farther behind in the new gear stream, I find less call for my particular knowledge, aside from answering all the same ol' questions that every other newbie asks -- and that really does get old.

One thing I learned a while back -- I now seldom give out my phone number except to likely customers. I have a contact form on my website that uses server-based mail to allow visitors to send me an email without them getting my email address. My basic business card just lists my domain name.

In years past -- particularly in the late 80s when those with computer knowledge were still somewhat rare* -- I found myself taking hours and hours helping folks with their first computers -- most of whom were not potential customers. And it was a drag. I liked helping my friends but I burned out fast enough -- even as the number of people asking for help kept exspanding.


*Actually -- I think those with real computer knowledge are still fairly rare -- but there are millions of people who flatter themselves into thinking they know a lot when in reality, they barely even known the basics of getting around in their GUI of choice.

[Alex Specht]

Not to be a jerk, but you guys all spent the time to read, and discuss this problem on GS, so why dont you take the time to help these lousy engineers with their M-box's

Granted, some of these calls drag out forever, and when you are someone who subscribes to GS, you hava lot to say.

MHO

[tonymission]

between this thread and the one in the hip hop forum you really comin across as kind of a crusty old bastard with your halls lined with platinums.

i hope we never have to depend on each other cuz you definitely aint gonna come through! it's a small city when it all boils down to it and i might have to chuckle if you ever need somethin.

ill be on the lookout :P

real talk tho... i feel ya, shit's always happenin but i just keep playin the cool guy game and people keep hookin me up with gigs non stop. it helps to have friends cuz god damn, id still be living in a uhaul storage shed if it wasnt for some of the ridiculous breaks ive received

dont follow the lead of a few, man. keep it cool and do what you can, when you can. my voice mail says "im not answering the phone because i am busy and voice mails get checked on a weekly basis so send a text if you really need me" ... it's really cut down on the bullshit and i still stay in touch with who i gotta. when the phone says "BIG RAPPER X" ill pick it up yafeelme?

[ryst]

Originally Posted by HoPMiX

but you wake up on the wrong side of the bed dude. you dont wanna give up any connections, you don't want to help anyone.. your money Low cuzin?

Where do you get that from? I love my life. And money aint a problem for me.

Originally Posted by HoPMiX

For that reason alone, you should be willing to help anyone that you feel is truly passionate about what they do, no matter what level they are at. If they are just some hacks and you feel like they dont give a damn about the craft, then why you even talking to em period.

You make it sound so simple. The people I am talking about are the ones I have met once or twice and start bombarding me with questions. These aren't people who know me very well at all. The ones who do know me, know I bend over backwards for them.

Originally Posted by HoPMiX

point is. lighten up dude..
its just music.
and if your any good, no one gonna steal your shine..
I promise, your not doing anything so original that it cant be copied, or someone else hasn't already got that idea.

Did I ever say I was doing something so unique? That wasn't the point of this post at all.

Whatever happened to making your own way? Developing your own skill? Honing your own craft? Learning from your own mistakes? Finding your own voice? Working hard on your own and being proud of your accomplishments?

One thing I guess I didn't make clear was that I am not talking about EVERYONE who asks for advice. Do I need to start a thread listing all the people I have helped and how much help I have provided? I help all my friend sand people who i respect. I help people here too.

I am talking about the people who have no intention to work hard for themselves. They won't even read the Goddamn manual.

I had a guy last week call me from Virginia asking me a PT question about setting up an aux track. I was very busy so I couldn't call him back. He called again a couple days later. Instead of waiting for my phone call for two days he could have actually read the manual or even looked online. That's the type of BS calls I get a lot of.
If I explained to you the situations where these things occur, you would probably understand my point of view. But it's really hard to articulate through the internet sometimes.

[tonymission]

1. how do all these cats even have your number in the first place?

2. and if you gotta toss your number out like that, make sure you get their's in your phone so if it really is some person you dont know (but you had to give them your number) you at least know not to answer

3. do what i do and sleep from noon to whatever ... i love my missed call log when i wake up. there's always a lot of shit im glad i dont gotta lie about "sorry i sleep during the day" ... reminds me, it's past my bedtime. gotta get off GS and finish this jam quick!!

4. can i get your number? :P

[ryst]

Originally Posted by tonymission

between this thread and the one in the hip hop forum you really comin across as kind of a crusty old bastard with your halls lined with platinums.

i hope we never have to depend on each other cuz you definitely aint gonna come through! it's a small city when it all boils down to it and i might have to chuckle if you ever need somethin.

The two threads I started are just 2 honest questions I had. Would you have felt better if i posted them a few weeks apart?

As far as the other thing you said, you need to read my post before this one. I know it's easy to jump to conclusions and think i am speaking about EVERY-FUGGIN-BODY...but I'm not, not at all. It's a particular type of person. And if you read my previous post, I think I made it pretty clear.

[ryst]

Originally Posted by tonymission

1. how do all these cats even have your number in the first place?

Did you even read my first post??? I wish my life was as simple as yours. Networking to me involves exchanging of numbers, emails, business cards, having meetings, waking up at 5am every morning, talking on the phone constantly, emailing constantly....

[tonymission]

Originally Posted by ryst

Did you even read my first post??? I wish my life was as simple as yours. Networking to me involves exchanging of numbers, emails, business cards, having meetings, waking up at 5am every morning, talking on the phone constantly, emailing constantly....

yeah i did actually read it bruh.

but you makin it sound like you got all these clowns buggin you. network with who you gotta and dont with who you dont. my life isn't nearly as turned upside down as yours by this and im a networking beast.

and ive done enough work to be bothered ... aint tryin to get into 'penis on the table' contest but come on -- have some discerning ability. some guy in virginia is calling to ask you some bullshit about an mbox? i cant see why even knowing that guy is helping your game at all.

either you talk with everyone and play the law of averages game or you take the connects you got, sort them with hot shit and let THAT work your way through the industry. just about everyone new im sorting out now is cuz they heard something i did for someone they know and my name got passed on. shit, my first engineering gig at the Outfit on Walker ended up providing me with enough beat slangage contacts to last me a year.

but if you aint good at making friends (which im doubting by the way you talk to even a fellow A-town cat who can probably help you more than some clown in virginia) then im guessing you need all the phone numbers you can get. dont complain when they blowing you up.

seems like the only numbers in my phone are people who never even have to open pro tools.

i dont know a lot of "engineers" writing checks...........

[Lee Knight]

The only people I've got asking PT, etc. questions are clients. It's reality that these guys have their own systems. They're still coming to me. Some are doing songwriting stuff for their band, some are working on overdubs.

I spread the knowledge knowing that 95% of them will struggle making things click and need me anyway. I give knowledge freely...

E-mail only. In my spare time. Only when I can.

[tonymission]

Originally Posted by ryst

I wish my life was as simple as yours. Networking to me involves exchanging of numbers, emails, business cards, having meetings, waking up at 5am every morning, talking on the phone constantly, emailing constantly....

And yeah, I feel ya, that sounds pretty rough.

Life is good ... I just go the strip club, meet up with homies for a couple drinks, look at some titties, drop em a CD and get a call the next day. I spend about 3 hours a day NOT in front of my keys/pads and that includes a good 30 minute shit to start the day off right.

I just focus a lot more on the music and less on the smoozin. Im a hispanic cat in the hood ... no other way Im comin up except makin hot ass beats... That's for anyone to decide ultimately, but Ive been good peoples and peoples have been good to me. You aint gotta be falling over backwards doing all that bullshit if you can get ONE person to listen ... just make sure they listenin to something worthwhile.

Good music gets signed in Atlanta. ALL.DAY.LONG.

If you got it, pass it on ... I'll help you out. I'm cool like that. ;-)

[ryst]

@tonymission

PM me your number. I would rather call you and talk voice to voice instead of trying for us to explain ourselves through this forum.
BTW, I appreciate your offering help but that's not what I need. I just wanted to know if anyone understood my perspective. That's why I started this thread.

[james.ca]

Here's the deal You get some one to bail your ass out . Maybe next time your save some ones ass.

If you come across something is way cool method of doing something you post and share . You hope some esle also does the same thing.
.
It's all about trading info . Sometimes you ask some times you help .

That's what these sites are about.
It's sort of nice being able to ask some one who has own a peice of gear and get feed back form a real owner of it .
You mihgt also get don't go near a paice of gear with a ten foot pole and save your self a few bucks & headaches.
.
Yes you get a lot of dudes who don't get the concept but most do.
.
It's a site headache at any site those who take but don't return a favor from time to time.

James.ca

[taturana]

well, as i said before, i usually help... through email..

what i can´t do is answer questions like "where´s the power button?" or "what is record?".. that and the 45-min plus call where somebody asks you to stay on the phone while they do whatever you tell them to the computer...

and sincerely... most of the stuff i learned by myself or as part of forums like this... so i do not feel compelled to help people by phone if they don´t even learn to read the manual first... really..

no shortage of friends here either... a bit short on patience though...

[deve]

I am one of them guys who make those kind of calls

[u b k]

i deal with these kinds of calls the same way i deal with every other kind of situation where i'm dealing with someone i don't want to be dealing with: i say 'no.'

i say it respectfully, i say it friendly, and i simply assert that i'm not the guy to help them. if i know someone who can, i'll pass the info. if i know a resource they can investigate, i'll pass the info. then i wish 'em luck, and say my goodbyes.

ime, people generally appreciate and respect the honesty and tact, and almost always respond well to someone who is respecting their own self. if they don't, that's okay, it's not my business to manage their emotions.

it's all about being clear with your words and light and respectful in your tone of voice. if saying no is a big deal for you, it'll feel like a big deal for them. if you're 100% clear it's the right thing t