Pro Tools HD Setup Help

[shelterr]

So I am getting ready (finally) to buy an Pro Tools HD Setup and have a few questions. First off, I have Mac G5 DualCore 2.3 with the PCI-e slots. Also I have a 2 AD/DA Lavry Blue that I will be running as my main two inputs (after drums of course) and clocking to. Also, I am planning on expanding to a total of 8 Lavry Inputs.

I am very familiar with the Digidesign 192 I/O and have no interest in getting it. I also am very familiar with the Apogee AD/DA 16X and can't really justify the expense given that the Lavry's sound better (i have done extensive tests) and after drums it's all Lavry anyway. This has lead me to the Lynx Aurora16. I have heard from many different sources that the convertors are comparable to the Apogees and when clocked to the Lavry's I'm pretty sure they will do until i get 6 more Lavry's for my front end.

So my question is, is it possible to get a PCI-e HD card for the Lynx16 and an additional 8 AES in/outs for additional convertors? I just want to have a fully functional HD rig without any problems. The price isnt really an issue, I just want to know that when I spend all of this money it's going to work!

Also if someone else has any other ideas of how to assemble a killer HD rig, lemme know!

[Tony Shepperd]

Just curious...
1. Why don't you want to get a 192?
2. what style of music do you do?

[kittonian]

The PCIe HD card is the ProTools system itself and has nothing to do with the Lynx Aurora16. For your system you would purchase the following:

1. Digi ProTools HD PCIe (whatever you need, HD1, HD2 or HD3 Accel)
2. Lynx Aurora16 with the LT-HD card
3. DSUB->XLR Breakout Snakes (you'll need four for the analog i/o and two for the digital i/o)

The Digilink cable to hookup the Aurora and the PT rig comes in the HD box and you simply plug the cable from the Aurora16's LT-HD card into the first card in your system (i.e. the CORE card). Hold the "To Analog Out" button on the front of the Aurora for about a second or so until the unit flashes, launch ProTools and you've got 16x16 analog AND 16x16 AES/EBU digital, simultaneously, up to 192kHz. It's sample accurate to the Digi 192's as well so there will be no need to manually compensate for delay times.

Enjoy!

[messengerbyrd]

Make sure that your digital breakout cables are in the yamaha dsub format and your analog ones are in tascam.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Just curious...
1. Why don't you want to get a 192?
2. what style of music do you do?

ditto on that question


i love mine..and whenver possible i tend to use systems that are meant to be itegrated

hence hd3, 192, command 8

[Andrew Kinsey]

Originally Posted by kittonian

The PCIe HD card is the ProTools system itself and has nothing to do with the Lynx Aurora16. For your system you would purchase the following:

1. Digi ProTools HD PCIe (whatever you need, HD1, HD2 or HD3 Accel)
2. Lynx Aurora16 with the LT-HD card
3. DSUB->XLR Breakout Snakes (you'll need four for the analog i/o and two for the digital i/o)

The Digilink cable to hookup the Aurora and the PT rig comes in the HD box and you simply plug the cable from the Aurora16's LT-HD card into the first card in your system (i.e. the CORE card). Hold the "To Analog Out" button on the front of the Aurora for about a second or so until the unit flashes, launch ProTools and you've got 16x16 analog AND 16x16 AES/EBU digital, simultaneously, up to 192kHz. It's sample accurate to the Digi 192's as well so there will be no need to manually compensate for delay times.

Enjoy!

This method will give you 16 channels of IO that only works the Aurora converters. For an additional 8 channels of AES/EBU you would need to add a Digi192 to the expansion port of the Aurora LT-HD card.

The other way of doing it would be to scrap the Aurora's and just get the Digi192 boxes instead. This is the most reliable way of running an HD system with LavryBlue's without any chance of compatibility issues etc..

[danasti]

Maybe you can explain what you are trying to do exactly?

How many total analog inputs and outputs do you need?

(This will answer perfectly and exactly how many AD and DA you will need.)

Are you summing ITB or OTB? (Do you have an external console? A 16 Channel external summing device?)

What outboard gear do you own now? Or are planning to interface with in the future?

How many musicians do you, right now, record at the exact same time?

Good Luck!

[kittonian]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kinsey

This method will give you 16 channels of IO that only works the Aurora converters. For an additional 8 channels of AES/EBU you would need to add a Digi192 to the expansion port of the Aurora LT-HD card.

The other way of doing it would be to scrap the Aurora's and just get the Digi192 boxes instead. This is the most reliable way of running an HD system with LavryBlue's without any chance of compatibility issues etc..

It will actually give him 16x16 analog i/o AND 16x16 AES/EBU i/o simultaneously and independently, which means he can hook up his 8 channels of Lavry off of the AES/EBU i/o on the Aurora without hooking anything else up to ProTools.

[patheticus]

So with 1 Lynx he could technically have 32 ins and 32 outs going at the same time? Or he can have 32 ins and 32 out's patched up at the same time but only run 16 in and 16 out at a time?

[shelterr]

The reason I am not interested in a Digi 192 is that that I am not a fan of the convertors in them and since I am planning on eventually mixing to a 16 channel summing buss (for use with rackmount compressors in real time) I would like some higher quality outputs to do this with. One other concern of mine is that the latency delay compesation in Pro Tools may not work correctly with the Lynx. Is this the case or does it work with the built in delay compensation? Also, I do mostly rock music.

[T_R_S]

FWIW Ed Meinter had a hand in the design of the 192 Digi did their homework on the 192 design it's no slouch ...

[kittonian]

Originally Posted by patheticus

So with 1 Lynx he could technically have 32 ins and 32 outs going at the same time? Or he can have 32 ins and 32 out's patched up at the same time but only run 16 in and 16 out at a time?

32 at the same time - 16 analog and 16 digital both ways simultaneously, so 64 if you want to get really specific (16 analog in, 16 analog out, 16 aes in and 16 aes out)

Originally Posted by shelterr

One other concern of mine is that the latency delay compensation in Pro Tools may not work correctly with the Lynx. Is this the case or does it work with the built in delay compensation?

The Lynx Aurora16 with the LT-HD card is sample accurate to the Digi 192. This means that the delay compensation works flawlessly (no manual calculations needed). It is both sample and port for port accurate to the Digi 192.

[shelterr]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

FWIW Ed Meinter had a hand in the design of the 192 Digi did their homework on the 192 design it's no slouch ...

My opinion of the Digi 192 is not based on who helped design it, it is based on extensive blind tests of convertor and clock versus many other brands. I have yet to find a worse sounding convertor or clock and have compared it to the Lucid, Apogee, Mytek, and Lavry.

[forjam]

Ditto. I did similar test with the same results. Time for Prism!

Originally Posted by shelterr

My opinion of the Digi 192 is not based on who helped design it, it is based on extensive blind tests of convertor and clock versus many other brands. I have yet to find a worse sounding convertor or clock and have compared it to the Lucid, Apogee, Mytek, and Lavry.

[midnightsun]

Joshua or anybody:

It is understood that delay compensation works perfectly with the Aurora 16 and PTHD. What about delay compensation and other converters feeding digital information to and from the Aurora? For example, will a Lavry coupled to the Aurora have perfect delay compensation?

Originally Posted by kittonian

32 at the same time - 16 analog and 16 digital both ways simultaneously, so 64 if you want to get really specific (16 analog in, 16 analog out, 16 aes in and 16 aes out)



The Lynx Aurora16 with the LT-HD card is sample accurate to the Digi 192. This means that the delay compensation works flawlessly (no manual calculations needed). It is both sample and port for port accurate to the Digi 192.

[AudioFocus]

I don't understand why everyone is so down on the 192 all the time. I'll admit that when I was first getting started with Pro Tools the 888 totaly sucked, but I have no problem with the 192s. I have PTHD3, 3 192s (24in/48out) all clocked via loop sync from a Sync HD. I do mainly rock records, but even on jazz and classical sessions when I'm recording at 192kHz I can't complain.

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by midnightsun

Joshua or anybody:

It is understood that delay compensation works perfectly with the Aurora 16 and PTHD. What about delay compensation and other converters feeding digital information to and from the Aurora? For example, will a Lavry coupled to the Aurora have perfect delay compensation?

No, if you're using a different set of converters for actual A/D or D/A you will need to manually adjust the compensation time, regardless of if you use the Aurora as the digital go-between.

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by AudioFocus

I don't understand why everyone is so down on the 192 all the time. I'll admit that when I was first getting started with Pro Tools the 888 totaly sucked, but I have no problem with the 192s. I have PTHD3, 3 192s (24in/48out) all clocked via loop sync from a Sync HD. I do mainly rock records, but even on jazz and classical sessions when I'm recording at 192kHz I can't complain.

The 192's don't completely suck , but when you get into the highest levels of recording and production it becomes a game of inches. I had both a 192 and a Lynx Aurora, and I can say that there was an audible difference, with the Aurora being clearly better. Was it an "oh my God" night and day difference? Not quite. But again, when you're looking for that final 5-10% difference in quality in your audio chain or your work, it matters.

[kittonian]

Originally Posted by zboy2854

No, if you're using a different set of converters for actual A/D or D/A you will need to manually adjust the compensation time, regardless of if you use the Aurora as the digital go-between.

Exactly right. PT|HD is only coded to be aware of the exact latency on the Digi 192 down to the sample (milisample, etc.). Since the Aurora16 with the LT-HD card matches that value exactly, it works/integrates flawlessly with PT|HD. Now, if you introduce another 3rd party converter and then go out of that converter via AES into the Aurora, there's no way that PT could possibly calculate for this since it doesn't even know that the other 3rd party converter exists.

There are ways to manually calculate these delays but you'll never get it absolutely perfect. You can come close and you'll end up being a rocket scientist on virtually every session, but it can be done. IMHO, it's better to just add another Aurora16 and plug it in. This way you can be creative and you won't have to worry about your conversion.

Hope that helps!

[AudioFocus]

Originally Posted by zboy2854

The 192's don't completely suck , but when you get into the highest levels of recording and production it becomes a game of inches. I had both a 192 and a Lynx Aurora, and I can say that there was an audible difference, with the Aurora being clearly better. Was it an "oh my God" night and day difference? Not quite. But again, when you're looking for that final 5-10% difference in quality in your audio chain or your work, it matters.

I agree that it's that little extra push that makes a ton of difference. I just don't have a need for it. The day a client complains, or I feel like I need to take the next step up I'll jump in head first.

I went with the digidesign converters just as an issue of stability. It's a rock solid setup that works flawlessly. Things like ADC not working right are a deal killer for me. While I do use a good deal of outboard gear and use my console as a giant summing mixer, most of my stuff happens in the box.

Somebody buy me the IZ Radar converters. I miss RADAR.

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by AudioFocus

I went with the digidesign converters just as an issue of stability. It's a rock solid setup that works flawlessly. Things like ADC not working right are a deal killer for me.

I agree that that would be a deal killer. Which is why I use the Lynx Aurora converters with my HD rig. Point being, if you're looking for stability and ease of use, the 192's aren't the only game in town. And even better, the Auroras give me superior conversion without sacrificing any stability. The best of all worlds.

[TheChariot]

Originally Posted by AudioFocus

I agree that it's that little extra push that makes a ton of difference. I just don't have a need for it. The day a client complains, or I feel like I need to take the next step up I'll jump in head first.

Wow, there's a thought for ya. Has anyone actually had a client complain about the sound quality of their 192?

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by TheChariot

Wow, there's a thought for ya. Has anyone actually had a client complain about the sound quality of their 192?

That's a good point. Most clients probably couldn't tell you what converters are, much less that they sound good or bad. Clients only know if they like or don't like the sound coming out of the speakers. What determines that is any number of factors, the converters being but one.

[Digibear]

Does anyone know if the MY cards for the Yamaha O2R96/DM series work with PT and do the delay compensation correctly?

[kittonian]

Originally Posted by Digibear

Does anyone know if the MY cards for the Yamaha O2R96/DM series work with PT and do the delay compensation correctly?

They do not do the compensation correctly and as far as I know they are not compatible with PT|HD only the MIX systems, although I could be wrong on the latter.

What you can do is get AES/EBU i/o for the O2r96 and use the Aurora16's AES/EBU i/o to go to and from PT|HD. However, the latency that is introduced from the O2r96 via its analog to digital conversion will not be taken into account and therefore PT will have no clue how to compensate for it.