Melodyne Video

[camerondye]

I thought that I didn't need any help for Melodyne was happy with my results, I now know that I was only using a portion of its power. I have watched about 1 hour of the video and have learned a ton. It is a boring watch but is really showing me what the program can do and how to do it. I still have 2.5 hours left of the video too. Anybody having any feelings that they are not getting the most out of Melodyne or having issues should definitely consider the video. I just wanted to bring this up because I see people having trouble with Melodyne. Some of the things I'm already doing, but the video is showing me a much more efficient way also. It's hard to get going with it and I'm not sure that Melodyne does a great job of showing us how to use this extremely powerful tool.
cam

[duckyboard]

3 hour melodyne video?

where is this ?

[camerondye]

3.5 hours

A lot of people sell it for subtly different prices but it is put out by a company called Ask Video. I looked them up and it's ASK Video - Interactive Media

I'm at 1.5 hours now in the video and it's nuts. They really have gone over everything, I think thats why it's boring sometimes because they are microscopic about everything. The first thing they do in the video is go over every single menu option in the whole program...and every button.

Seriously, anybody not completely confident with there Melodyne skill should look into getting this video. It is going to help me with ideas and workflow 4 sho.
cam

[camerondye]

Just throwing some good karma to ask video for making a great video, they definitely did a great job on covering melodyne.
cam

[camerondye]

I watched the video again taking notes on topics different from just pitch correction and the general things melodyne does:


Using the locators to loop music while working on certain sections
Click Track & Click Track Volume
Using the Mixer in Melodyne
EQ Graph in Mixer Mode
Adding Effects in Mixer Mode
Grouping Channels in Mixer Mode
Showing multiple tracks in the same window to line blobs up
Global Offsets to pitch up/down, change formants to all tracks at the same time
CORRECTION MODE – Artifact Issue correction Here
Formant Changing
Amplitude
Edit Time Handle
PITCH DRIFT - Where the good pitch correction happens
Editing Loops with Melodyne’s Algorithms
Making Artificial Harmonies and Making them sound right
Autostretching and putting loops together of different tempos
Separting Notes as a Trill or Slide or to Beats
Copying and Pasting Notes, Pitches, Timing or word without chaning pitch
Cool Selecting time savers
Compound Notes
Playback Paramaters (Has a little bit of a transient designer’ish in this)
Tone Scales & Mode Changes
Variable Tempo Editing Mode
Editing & stretching files not done to a click (Variable Tempo Editing)
Editing a non-click track to fit it to a click
Automatic Pitch & Time Correction
Use of Melodyne Bridge, cooler than I thought it would be,
More Complex Rewire Uses
Keyboard Shortcuts – Pretty cool help on going quicker
Change Audio to Midi signals
Controlling Melodyne with a Midi Controller
Midi Synchronization
Using a Midi Remote – Like the Mackie Control Surface


If anybody wants any direction on some of the help topics on here or others, post and I will give the best go of explaning. I have watched the video 3 times and feel really good about my grasp of Melodyne Studio 3.
Cameron

[DAWgEAR]

Do you recommend the video for someone only using Melodyne Plugin?

[Michael Lin]

Originally Posted by camerondye

CORRECTION MODE – Artifact Issue correction Here

Hi Cameron, I'm curious as to what this is about... I've noticed artifact problems in Melodyne-treated tracks and was wondering if they addressed it or if they mention how to work around that problem. Thanks.

[peeder]

In general I find the best educational videos to be boring as piss.

[camerondye]

From what I've found out and noticed, if you have an "over"...melodyne will make that over 0db sound like a click and you'll get artifacts that way. I haven't tested it to see if it is "overing" lower than 0db but I wouldn't think so. It also says that if melodyne is choosing the wrong note that you can get artifacts from that. Lets say the song is going along a one of the notes on the screen says an octave below what you know it is, you have to correct it or there is a possibility of artifacts. It discusses a couple ways of telling Melodyne that it got the note wrong but the easiest is probably the correction mode.

When you are correcting your vocal, look and see what is happening where the artifact happens and put some thought in why it is there and you'll probably get a lot better results from Melodyne. I also think that its a resource hog and you have to watch the cpu meter also.

Also, when you get an artifact...patch in the original edit in that small spot so the artifact isn't there. I know that's annoying but it definitely works.
cam

[camerondye]

Sorry DAW Gear, I had to think about that before I posted. It would help, but the biggest thing it would probably do is make you want to upgrade.

Do you understand how to use Pitch Drift, cutting, Modulation...the general things on pitch correction? Look at the list above and see if their is anything that you don't understand and maybe I can go over it. Try and find out if the plugin even goes there though.
cam

[chickencoop]

thanks for the recommendation-- i just got this cheap off peebay
i generally am too a.d.d. to sit through large chunks of instructional videos, but i find i like to have them like a reference and this seems well indexed.

[camerondye]

It's very well indexed and comes with a dvd and a computer dvd that is the same thing really but easier on the computer...especially for those who can't watch dvd's on their computer. It's a hard watch front to back, but do it in pieces..
cam

[NoEgo]

Originally Posted by camerondye

It's very well indexed and comes with a dvd and a computer dvd that is the same thing really but easier on the computer...especially for those who can't watch dvd's on their computer. It's a hard watch front to back, but do it in pieces..
cam

Hey, I just bought the Studio version..
Thanks for the tip...I found the program useful right away and I may even get the advanced CUbase 4 vid. I have been using Cubase for 10 years but being an old analog guy, I tend to do things the hard way,.

Lou

[camerondye]

I just wanted to make sure people who have the program are getting the help to learn how to use it, because Melodyne smokes all the others...but people don't want to learn how to use it right and get pissed off and sell it...then flame on it. It has a pretty big learning curve, if you need some help on something...post or pm me.
cam

[dreamsongs]

I have the plug-in which I've used sparingly and on some selected spots. My main issue was the degradation of the vocal once you turn the plug on. Also on some notes, there were weird artifacts.

I don't know if this video covers these issues or they're just happening on the plug-in version. I never correct at 100% by the way, usually I leave it at 70%. I don't know if even that's too much...

I just wanna know how to make a few pitch corrections and avoid the sound degradation that occurs the second I turn it on...

[camerondye]

Do you only use Auto-Correction? I almost never use Auto Correction and I'm not having these issues, could it be that? I also don't use the plugin that often, but I'm not having the issues you are having.

If you would like, you can email me a portion of a vocal part you are having trouble with and I will see if it is having the same issues on Melodyne Studio if you want. You would have to keep the file under 20mb though...
cameron

[Jayro_Rockola]

Thanks for offfering up your newly found expertise!
Could you explain the pitch drift tool to me? I don't really understand it and usually end up only using the modulation tool.

Thanks again!

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by camerondye

Do you only use Auto-Correction? I almost never use Auto Correction and I'm not having these issues, could it be that? I also don't use the plugin that often, but I'm not having the issues you are having.

If you would like, you can email me a portion of a vocal part you are having trouble with and I will see if it is having the same issues on Melodyne Studio if you want. You would have to keep the file under 20mb though...
cameron

What I do is highlight the blob or blobs if it's more than one area, set the pitch correction at 70% or whatever and then when you click it sets the correct pitch.

I never make drastic corrections to begin with so it bothers me that there's pops and clicks in the area that I corrected. Obviously if the singer is that way off the correct note they're gonna have to do another take.

Also like I said, the degradation of the audio once I go thru the plug-in is something that's completely audible (unless you're deaf) so that's a problem too.

On the few areas of the track that I used it I had to compensate with eq's to bring back the vocal to where it sounded the same. I would see it very difficult to use this in a ballad with a sparse arrangement as it would make it very apparent.

[camerondye]

I think when you say you use the modulation tool to fix pitch you are meaning the edit pitch tool, the modulation tool actually just fixes the amount of vibrato on a blob. If you have a section with too much vibrato, click the Modulation tool and click hold and drag to lessen the amount of vibrato.

There is a big difference between the “pitch” tool and the “pitch drift” tool. The blob is the colored oval area behind the pitch line. Then there is the blank blob behind the colored blob where Melodyne thinks the pitch belongs.

After you click on the Pitch Drift tool, click hold and drag on a blob and the Pitch Line starts turning that pitch line closer to a straight line (for the most part). You can actually pseudo switch the phase on the line by dragging too far, but I’m not sure why you would want to yet. The Edit Pitch tool moves the whole blob but keeps the variations in pitch consistent…basically just moving the whole un-edited pitch line up or down in pitch.

One of the problems is if one big blob starts sharp and ends flat for example. The way I’ve gotten good results is by using the Note Separation tool. Choose the Note Separation tool and cut the blob into portions that are in fairly close pitch to each other. Cut the sharp section separate, leave the middle section, and the flat section leaving one blob as 3 separate blobs. Then pitch correct each portion separately and you will find you get more realistic results even with more drastic correction.

You also have the amplitude tool, which turns the volume up and down on a single blob.



Dreamsongs, start trying to use the manual correction on your vocal tracks. Go through, listen to the vocal and look at each of the blobs on the screen. If you are worried about Melodyne adding artifacts, make sure you are editing a rendered or copy of the original version of your vocal. Go through passage by passage and manually decide what each out-of-tune blob needs. You will get very good and very fast at doing it in no time once you start trying it this way. I am pretty sure you would also get less artifacts also. I have a feeling that the plugin doesn't run as well because it's trying to run your DAW, all the effects VST's, and Melodyne all at the same time and it is bogging things down. Maybe try doing your vocal editing before any VST's have been added and see if you have better luck.

The video does not address the artifact issue directly, it mainly just mentions that if you don't do a certain thing it could cause artifacts. I have a feeling that if you run Uno, Cre8, or Studio you'll have less issues because it's now the only thing running compared to the Plugin or Bridge. I also don't have this humongous problem with the high end cutoff, it may be there but it is minor. Maybe I can get some examples of some vocals processed and unprocessed for comparisom.

Hope it helps and I have instant notification on this thread to help out with whoever needs help with Melodyne. If I don't know the answer I'll consult the video or manual because it is also helping me how to use Melodyne better at the same time.
cam

[RBowlin]

It is a great video. I bought it when it first came out (despite the fact I NEVER need this on my own voice ) and it really helped. I even wrote a review and I think it's still on the ASK site.

-Rich

[dreamsongs]

Originally Posted by camerondye

Dreamsongs, start trying to use the manual correction on your vocal tracks. Go through, listen to the vocal and look at each of the blobs on the screen. If you are worried about Melodyne adding artifacts, make sure you are editing a rendered or copy of the original version of your vocal. Go through passage by passage and manually decide what each out-of-tune blob needs. You will get very good and very fast at doing it in no time once you start trying it this way. I am pretty sure you would also get less artifacts also. I have a feeling that the plugin doesn't run as well because it's trying to run your DAW, all the effects VST's, and Melodyne all at the same time and it is bogging things down. Maybe try doing your vocal editing before any VST's have been added and see if you have better luck.
cam

I have been doing it manually but once in a while it does what I describe. Or maybe it's the plug-in version, I don't know. I will have to play with it some more...

Thanks by the way, I appreciate the help...

[camerondye]

It sucks to have something you know is cool that doesn't work perfectly but I wouldn't give up.
cam

[Jayro_Rockola]

Originally Posted by camerondye

I think when you say you use the modulation tool to fix pitch you are meaning the edit pitch tool, the modulation tool actually just fixes the amount of vibrato on a blob. If you have a section with too much vibrato, click the Modulation tool and click hold and drag to lessen the amount of vibrato.

My confusion is that the modulation tool and the pitch drift tool appear visually to do almost the same thing: flatten the variations in the pitch. I.E. when I click and drag using either tool the line seemes to "get straighter" more or less the same.

What am I missing?

[camerondye]

Well, fellow North Carolinian...I can't lie. After thinking about your question, I had to open up Melodyne and see because I couldn't think of a better answer besides that's what they told us to do. I did the research and I have the correct answer...

Pitch Drift is actually trying to correct when a singer slowly goes sharp or flat in a passage or blob. So while there is still up and down on the pitch line, the center of that line is hypathetically moving up or down with the drifting pitch. Pitch drift is trying to correct it as if the singer hadn't drifted off pitch. Not change necessarily the up and down on the pitch line, but to bring the imaginary center of the pitch line to the center. Now there is still up and down on the pitch line, but it can be centered on a pitch and still sound like a human sung it.

On the contrary, if you use the Modulation tool to try and correct pitch, pitch drift or anything besides Vibrato...you are definitely using the wrong tool. Yes, the modulation tool will bring the drift back towards center, but not without the expense of trying to bring the good notes towards the center with it. Lets say at the end of a blob is slowly going sharp, or up on the pitch line. The Modulation tool is going to bring the sharp towards the center, the beginning towards the center, and start sounding like a robot very very quickly.

Open Melodyne and load a vocal track. Zoom in on a blob that is drifting towards the end of the note and use the Pitch Drift tool. Watch how it brings the shapes towards the center but doesn't try to shrink the natural vibrato in the voice that makes us sound human. Now try it with the Modulation tool, watch how the natural vibrato on the whole note is getting killed as it brings everything towards a flat line. That is going to sound bad, not get the results you want, and probably with the extreme change in the pitch...give you artifacts.

I really think that if you open it up and start messing with the tool on the same note, you will definitely start seeing the difference and have better luck with Melodyne.
Good Luck,
cam

[Jayro_Rockola]

Originally Posted by camerondye

Well, fellow North Carolinian...I can't lie. After thinking about your question, I had to open up Melodyne and see because I couldn't think of a better answer besides that's what they told us to do. I did the research and I have the correct answer...

Hey man, Thanks for your pro bono edification. Although I don't really grasp the subtleties of the modulation/pitch drift tool yet, I have found that I have a new found desire to just **** with it 'till I get it right.

(I still don't understand the difference between "modulation" and "pitch drift" though")

[camerondye]

I will try and take some pictures of what I'm talking about, it will make it easier to explain I think. I think I will can get to it this morning.
cam

[camerondye]

Ok, I know have props to work with on the explanation, download the picture before you read. I have 1 blob (Original File in the Picture) that is unaffected yet, the next blob (Pitch Drift in the Picture), and the last blob (Modulation). The original file has been sectioned off into 3 sections.

Original File Picture Explanation - Notice how in the first section it starts off a little flat (below the blob) of the original, gets close to center on section 2, and goes sharp on section 3 (above the blob). What we are trying to do is get the pitch line to be closer to the blob without taking away the humanness of the voice.

Pitch Drift Picture Explanation – Notice how the shape of section 1 has just been moved up into the blob, section 2 has been squashed a tiny bit, and section 3 has moved down but keeps the general shape of the original.

Modulation Picture Explanation – Notice how the file has been straightened heavily. You can hardly tell that it came from the original and I really didn’t affect it more than the Pitch Drift section.

Trying an analogy, pitch drift is kind of like a compressor where it is taking the flat and the sharp and lessening the distance between the two. Modulation, in this case of using it for tuning, is like a limiter and trying to make it look flat. But after you use the Pitch drift to get the pitch centered on the blob, then you can move the whole blob to the pitch you want and it will sound a lot better. I don’t know if this analogy helps but I thought of it while I was writing this and this paragraph is for me, I need me time sometimes.

Using the Modulation tool to lower too much vibrato at the end of a blob is very effective, but only for lowering and sometimes raising the amount of vibrato.

Melodyne is so effective because it corrects pitch with keeping the humanness of the vocal in tact. That movement of pitch is the part of the essence of the vocal track, destroying it would leave less than stellar results. Melodyne is a lot tougher than the others to learn because they are giving us so many options, sometimes too many maybe…but that’s what gives the best results. Hope this one explains the difference better.
Cam

[midigod]

I always think of the Pitch Drift tool as being like a rotator. Here's what I mean:

Let's say you have a vocalist singing one pitch, with absolutely no vibrato. But their pitch goes flat over the course of the note. Bringing that note into Melodyne will show a straight (unvibratoed) line, but that line will dip lower at the end of the note than at the beginning.

Using the Pitch Drift tool, Melodyne finds the point where the pitch is at an average, and rotates the line around that point. In this case, counter-clockwise. That results in the note being at a stable pitch, but since the midpoint Melodyne selected may not be the absolute correct pitch, you may need to do a little more pitch correction after applying the Drift tool. (It may not be the correct pitch because often a singer will start at the right note but sink flat over time, or start flat and come up to the right pitch. In both cases the average pitch is still flat.)

Seems clear to me, but I probably explained it poorly. You can see that rotation in the pic in Camerondye's post, though in the case of that note, it was rotated clockwise.

Craig