How many of you have a degree in audio engineering?

[IzzyRock]

Just wondering. How many of the , lets say, "active" slutz here (meaning, having or working at a studio, producing music as your main living) have a degree on audio engineering ? And how many of you studyied something else and ended working on that?
Or maybe, you didn't study at all and just it is your vocation.


I'm feeling a lil scared myself here, I'm still young but I dont have any official degree, however, i record and produce music most of the time (thats my income source). I studyied business for 3 years but quit, i hated it. And I dont feel like studying Audio Engineering either : 1# too long or either I manage most of the program knowlegde 2# too expensive

Any thoughts about this matter?

Cheers

Javier

[Daniel Antix]

I have a degree in music majoring in audio engineering. I work at a radio station as an audio engineer... this is my main source of income. I also produce dance music which gets released on various indie labels... for what i do at the radio station i really don't need a degree... but it does feel good knowing more about audio/music then other people above me

I also have clients come through my home studio (mostly commercial work) my degree comes in handy there... allows me to charge more.

I'd love to do more work with bands... I've done a bit but most of it is with my projects or mates bands.

[phillysoulman]

PHD in the University of Philly Soul

[robertshaw]

School of hard knocks here

[joelpatterson]

I have 98.6 degrees, and that's it.

If I were to feel a little rant coming on... it would be about how working with musicians is much more about dealing with the pathologies of human nature than it is about understanding gear and how it works.

Someone with an "audio engineering" degree would be best matched with a band with "musician" degrees. You see what I'm saying?

[AudioFields]

i say this very humbly.....i went to the school of...."Work for $20 bucks a day on really bad rigs, that you'll always have to fix, and always be in crappy venues, and do that for a year." 6 years later....i just bought my own home and paid cash for a new car.
work hard...work hard...dont complain...and then work hard. Sorry for being so direct, but im very passionate about having passion in whatever field you do.

[kooz]

I also spent many, many years in the slime-filled trenches after school getting to where I am today.
One way or another, a successful career in this wacky business depends on your aversion to laziness, your openmindedness and ability to listen and learn.
As you can see above, there is no "one right way" to make a living as an engineer or producer.
Advice: follow your dream, work hard every day, and take every opportunity presented to you (and even if you fall flat on your face, hopefully you learned something), and constantly look for new opportunities.

[Rick Sutton]

Doctorate in guerilla audio technics. Associate in tear gas dodging from UC Berkeley 1969. Jug Band Technology batchelors, SMU (Santa Margararita Undesirables). Several other degrees (third degree solder iron burns, etc.)that are not universally recognized.
Currently working on a degree in Old Codgerism.

[papawhitehead]

I don't have a degree, but for whatever it's worth, I'm Pro Tools Certified. Basically, I paid a bunch of money to learn Pro Tools pretty thoroughly rather quickly. I don't think the paper is worth much.

[Kadden Heart]

recording arts degree
music business degree
i learned a lot, and gained access to a lot of invaluable tools and opportunities.
it puts you one step above those with not much solo experience, and it makes clients think you're cool.
the insight from many engineers and time on cool desks and gear, makes it very cool.

but for the amount of money i spent on it,...
i could have easily trolled GS for the same amount of time,..learned just as much,...
or paid a big engineer in my town to teach me for a few months, half the price, same learning.

in my opinion the money you pay to go to any audio school renders it null and void to anyone who knows the basics.

regardless you're going to have to work hands on without teachers there to bail you out before you get any good, and you're going to have to work a lot to do this.

personal verdict:
everyone has different needs, if you could answer a few questions about audio,...then why spend the money?
if not, find the cheapest school possible.
,...and....spend too much time on this website.

[PhilC]

I have a bachelors in engineering and a bachelors in music performance with a theory/composition minor.

I consider both to be a gigantic waste of time and money.

[Kadden Heart]

let me also add this.
i'm a strong advocate of "dont spend money on the degree, learn the hard way"
BUT
also let me say,...
if you're a person that's never worked on an analog desk, has only been in pro tools for a few months and that's the only DAW you've used, never been aorund big time angineers, never had to man a big expensive room,...
then don't think you know sh**
this is one thing i find
kids with degrees, think we know everything,..in reality, 90% haven't learned sh** yet
kids without degrees, think they know sh** and they've never even been exposed to the stuff the kids with degrees have....

my .02
now i'm done
lol

[AudioFields]

the way i looked at was like this. If i wasnt always putting myself in new and uncomfortable situations, i wasnt going forward. and if youre not going forward, youre going backwards.

[Energie]

"If your not first, your last......."


(trademark of the ricky bobby inc.)

[maxhype]

Honors Degree in Composition/Keyboard Performance from Berklee.

I'm a musician-who-records not the other way around.

I learned an enormous amount in college - most of it from a few extraordinary professors. It also teaches one discipline if one cares about getting the most from those 4-5 years. I also had to take a fair amount of course work in Social Sciences, Language and Math...this goes along with a full music class load and 6-8 hours/night in practice rooms as well as constant gigs, recitals, cafeteria jam sessions.

I make my living full time performing/touring/composing and producing.

But that's my personal path. There are many roads to the same place.

[Daniel Antix]

Originally Posted by papawhitehead

I don't have a degree, but for whatever it's worth, I'm Pro Tools Certified. Basically, I paid a bunch of money to learn Pro Tools pretty thoroughly rather quickly. I don't think the paper is worth much.

i did that too but i let it slide... i switched to cubase and didn't see the point in keeping it up.

[Brad McGowan]

I have a BS in Aerospace Engineering. I work full time in the aerospace industry as a mechanical engineer. Over the last 10 years the income from my job has allowed me to purchase my own gear, build my own studio, and record bands I choose to work with. I've established my own audio engineering curriculum so to speak. I would do it exactly the same way if I had to do it all over again.

Brad

[lespaul666]

Trial and error over 20-some-odd years, I consider my degree. IT certifications, yes. Audio? no. I guess if you have the inner gift to begin with, a degree in audio could be worth it. If not, it won't mean anything without good ears, years of experience, taste, and judgement. People skills help, too.

[paintitblack]

It definatly helps.. only if youve got the money.
If you cant cough up the cash just study hard.

Im about to graduate with an associates in engineering.
The networking is great. You meet tons of people with the same passion as you. So of course oppurtunities arrise.
My school offers 24 hour booking.. So i had all the access to all the Tape machines, large format consoles and all the HD systems i wanted...
They are helping me very well get a job..
Getting to know your instructors sometimes means a possible job out of it.



Its a great way to get a spot in the industry.

Check out the Institute of Production and Recording

[raal]

ok, here's one:

how many of you were making records before degrees in audio engineering existed?

which makes me wonder, which was the 1st audio engineering school and when was it founded?

[Rick Sutton]

I'll raise my hand to that one.

[delasoul]

Certified Recording Engineer over here. i dont know what level that puts me at among the rest of you.. but i feel that going to school really set the base for what i learned after i graduated.

[Kadden Heart]

who was the first?
google and wiki yield no results.

i know the history of full sail...but i'm sure there was at least one before it.
and more importantly,...i'm sure universities and regular colleges offered osme ofrm of sound engineering minor at least,..so i assume we're talking
audio specific schools?

[Beyersound]

Self taught, with a lot of recording college curriculum. Actually attended the school to do someone's final for them(it was a session, got an A for him!). Wasn't much accredited audio education available back then. Started live behind a console from day one, never looked back. Went from small clubs(with little consoles and a piece or two of outboard) to arenas and stadiums(with huge consoles and racks of outboard!)in a 5 day period, again never looked back. Did my first real session in the early/mid 80s, my second one ended up on a platinum album(thanks for the push Michael Barbiero!). Degrees are great, but not the end all be all. There is much more audio education available now, some of it really good. It is much harder these days to start the way I did then. I think a audio strong education is more of a necessity now.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by Kadden Heart

who was the first?

First I remember being aware of was Recording Workshop in Ohio established 1971. Possibly someone predated them but don't remember.
Colleges and Universities didn't come on board till much later. Any audio education was usually bundled in with broadcasting programs.

[jamsmith]

I think when I first got into audio, they had degree programs Berklee, Miami and a few others. I do remember some pre-Full Sail programs at studios in the new york area. This is one of those areas where the experience of getting the degree is probably worth more than the degree itself.

I observed the process at Full Sail pretty much from beginning to end as my group one of the favorite "guinea pig" bands. One student who was friends with us brought us in for his class' recording, live sound, and video projects. Lot of great equipment and lots of fun. But out of all the graduates I know, only a couple work on the upper level. The student I mentioned mixed Gov't Mule for 6 years. Others literally couldn't find their way around a strange studio.

All thing being equal, I think I would take the guy with one year of solid professional experience than a 4 year student.

I have worked in electronics, audio, and computers. No degree in anything. Except a "diploma" in accounting.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

I have 98.6 degrees, and that's it.

If I were to feel a little rant coming on... it would be about how working with musicians is much more about dealing with the pathologies of human nature than it is about understanding gear and how it works.

Someone with an "audio engineering" degree would be best matched with a band with "musician" degrees. You see what I'm saying?

stikestikethumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

[beached_bass]

I am in college and am about to get my BA in Recording Arts. My professors are very well-known engineers and have made or worked on some classic records. They have spent 18 years building our program up and I am so proud to be a part of it. Our program lasts 4 years and it begins with Music Theory courses, aural musicianship, performance classes, electronic courses, and concludes with audio recording classes. From day one, we are taught signal flow... something that I am surprised to find that many on this site have yet to master. We take music industry classes and work on projects that involve us having to draft proposals and budgets. We have to pay attention to union wages and after working in a couple of studios in the Bay area, I feel that this program really prepares us for a career in the music industry. Only after we fill out paperwork and production maps, do we get to actually record. We are required to take notes and these maps are turned in with our projects at the end of each semester. We learn that proper documentation is one of the most important skills a good assistant must have. The idea of our production maps is for anyone to be able to come into our studio and re-create our session. From the mic positions to the actual gear recall, everything must be documented. I am relatively new to this site, but I would consider a good number of the people that post on here daily to be amateur engineers. I can tell by the way you speak about the industry. Sure you may say that you make a living off of "recording bands" and what not, but there is a hell of a lot more to this industry than the actual recording side of it.

I am not trying to stir any sh** up, but it truly bothers me to read that people have no respect for those of us that have chosen to get a real degree. I have made many sacrifices over the last 10 years of my life and after being in college for a while, I am finally ready to step out into the world and begin a career. I know that I am not going to walk right into a job as an engineer, but the hard work that I have put in over the last 4 years is paying off. I have worked in two studios in the Bay area and these are not little project studios... these are full-functioning, commercial studios. One is the private studio of a very well known band from the SF area and the other is a recently built facility that would make any freelance engineer drool. I managed to impress people at both studios and am hopefully going to have a job as a full-time assistant when I graduate in May.

Recording is the only thing that has made sense to me. I started humping gear for a sound company when I was 14. This turned into a job in a guitar shop a year later. I then wound up touring nationally on a big summer tour for a couple of years. That blossomed into a FOH gig when I decided to go back to school. From there, I wound up working for a producer/engineer in his film scoring studio in Santa Barbara. It was there that my love for recording really began and I have not looked back since. I am 24 now and have seen a lot of stuff, so please don't dismiss me as a smart-assed college student. I take great offense to people who mock me for going to college. Yes, it has cost me a lot of money and it will be years before the loans are paid off, but I have something that no one can ever take from me and this degree shows a sense of maturity and desire to finish something.

Those of you who feel that getting a degree in recording arts is a waste need to re-evaluate your stance on this issue. There is plenty of truth to the whole experience thing in a studio, but a good 4-year program (a real college program... not a tech school) can build the foundation needed to make a change in the current industry.

If anyone is interested in talking about my school, please feel free to contact me. I do not want to put it out there on a public board because our major is already impacted and the last thing we need is larger classes... we currently have 24 people to a grade level and that works out just fine. Once again, I am not trying to piss anyone off, just defend those of us who have degrees from 4-year programs.

Cheers!

[JimmyM]

My problem with the schools is that you're better off buying a small amount of studio or PA gear and working it than you are at school. It isn't brain surgery to learn how to use the stuff, and your workload will depend a lot more on how you deliver. Believe me, not one person has ever asked "What school did you go to" on a job interview. All that counts is knowing how music is made and arranged and mixed. Some people get it, some don't. It's like playing an instrument. Some people get it instantly, some people have to work hard at it to get it, and some people never get it. And school isn't going to help you get it. What helps you get it is experience. Yes, you do get to touch really expensive state of the art gear, but if you learn how to get good sounds with crap gear first, operating automated state of the art stuff is cake.

Graduate from audio school and you can read manuals and twist knobs. But I can't tell you how many audio school grads I've worked with that think they know music because they graduated a school and they have no clue. The nuts and bolts of audio engineering you can learn by buying equipment and working it with people who know more about it than you. And for the price of school, you can buy a buttload of used equipment. Whether you get the process or not is up to you, but at least if you find that you don't have what it takes, you can sell off the equipment and recoup something. If you go to school, there's no refunds.

[Relicrecordings]

Major in business. Minor in electronic music.

LOTS of time paying dues.

But no audio school. 21 and I've had a commercial studio for 2 yrs.