Protools songs / session organisation

[coffeeanan]

I need some tips to organise let's say a 10 song album session.

How do you guys used to work ?

A.Every song on a different session , each with his own audio, session backup and fades folder ?
B.Or do you record all the songs on the same session ?

When working in the B style, it is of course handy to use all eq settings etc on drum instruments for instance , you can jump from one song to another to do some overdubs, etc.. But I find it quickly becomes a mess with all the different files in the region binand in the audio folder and what if you want to change the tempo on one song, you all know that the whole grid changes on the other songs.

I recently started to work in the A style. Much easier to manage the files and tempo changes.

I start with a template that I like for song 1 , but when the session progresses, I add extra routings for headphone mixes, auxes for reverbs more tracks and other things that work for this particular song.

Now up to song number 2. What to do ? starting again from the template ?
But then I lose all the routings and auxes that I like for that Band?
Or start from the previous song session and remove the files from the 1st song ? But then the audio files from all songs reamin in one folder.

A lot of confusing here.


Btw, I recently started using PT6 with the session import function: But I'm still not satisfied with importing new tracks and deleting old ones on the same session; unless I'm missing somethging here.

[djui5]

You can use method A...highly highly....highly.....highly recommended that you do so.

Having all the songs in the same session file is a nightmare for any other engineer working with that album.

If your upset about having to redo your auxes and such make a template session for the band....then open the template session for each new song..then save as "song name".

[coffeeanan]

I got it Randy, but what if mixing time comes around and you found some nice eq settings for let's say the kick and snare on song 1.
How to apply these settings to song 2 without having to save setting as " kick eq band x song" on the plugin or fiddle with the session import dialog and having to delete/ import tracks ?
I

[LTA]

Originally posted by coffeeanan
I need some tips to organise let's say a 10 song album session.

How do you guys used to work ?

A.Every song on a different session , each with his own audio, session backup and fades folder ?
B.Or do you record all the songs on the same session ?

I will track raw stuff with style B. Set up one session, and let it run like a tape machine. Multiple takes, no problem. Multiple songs, no problem. Just keep a log sheet or make sure to put in location points at the beginnings of takes. Great when you don't know what is coming next, and the band is being spontaneous. Loading a new session is not an excuse to make the band wait.

Then, after the initial tracking, go through and save each keeper take segment to its own session. Minimize files, and only save what you need for that single song. Do your overdubs. Continue using style A until each song is finished. Bounce to stereo.

Then, you take all your stereo mixes and import them into a single session. Do your editing, crossfades, level matching, and other premastering steps in a style B session

Each style has its advantages and disadvantages. You can do everything one way, but sometimes it is quicker or less confusing to do it the other way on occasion. Just save it in a way that you can open the session a few weeks down the road and figure out without much thought just exactly what was going on and what needs to be done.

Now, many DAWs allow you to copy and save mixer settings. And don't shy away from making temporary presets. You can delete them later. A couple extra keystrokes never killed anybody. You are still going to have to tweak eq and compression settings for each session to get them to sit right.

[coffeeanan]

Hm.
I worked for years in style B; that is all songs one one big session.
But recently I started to do a lot of editing on the tempo's with beatdetective etc. But once you start doing that, all markers start to move around wich makes it a complete mess.
Not to speak about the huge audio folder PT creates and the time it takes to load the session.

Therefore I want to get away from that and make a separate folder per song.
Imagine you trash some files, well it can only hurts that particular song , right ?
Just want to hear your opinions on how you handle the settings when jump from song to song in mixmode. With an "out the box" mixing desk, you always hve your latest settings no matter what song you load in.

[sharpeleven]

Originally posted by coffeeanan

Just want to hear your opinions on how you handle the settings when jump from song to song in mixmode.

You can import any number of tracks from any other session including all plugins and even automation into your current song.

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by coffeeanan

Just want to hear your opinions on how you handle the settings when jump from song to song in mixmode.

There's another issue - when you have talent out in the room and you jump from song to song in overdub mode, you lose communication with them once you close the first session. I'm still not sure of the best way to handle that, either.

[Bob Olhsson]

I vastly prefer one session file per song but there's nothing stopping you from importing the tracks from another song into the same session if you want. Another, more efficient strategy is creating a slave session for all your vocals which you can then import back into the original sessions.

As for communication, a talkback mike in the studio that is always available on the console is pretty hard to beat.

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson

As for communication, a talkback mike in the studio that is always available on the console is pretty hard to beat.

Agreed. But I keep forgetting to turn it off when the instrument (or vocal) mics are on. Can be painful...

[djui5]

If you really want the same kick snare sound on every song for an album....then you can make one that sounds good and use sound replacer to replace the kick and snare on every song with the one that sounds good....



Personally..I like to treat each song as it's own......why would you want the kick and snare to sound the same on the whole album? That's boring.

[picksail]

When performing preliminary tracking, I prefer to create one session and "keep the tape rolling".

Afterwards, I return to the session to divide the songs and create new sessions for each song.

I like to keep everything very neat and meticulously organized in an attempt to interchange the sessions with other engineers at other facilities.

This is my prefered method and for me to explain the stringent requirements involved I would occupy a couple of pages.

That said, I have provided a link to the ProTools Session Interchange Guidlines established by the Grammy's Producer & Engineers Wing.

Hopefully, this will provide some insight.

http://www.grammy.com/pe_wing/

[paterno]

Originally posted by LTA
I will track raw stuff with style B. Set up one session, and let it run like a tape machine. Multiple takes, no problem. Multiple songs, no problem. Just keep a log sheet or make sure to put in location points at the beginnings of takes. Great when you don't know what is coming next, and the band is being spontaneous. Loading a new session is not an excuse to make the band wait.

Then, after the initial tracking, go through and save each keeper take segment to its own session. Minimize files, and only save what you need for that single song.

This seems like a lot of extra work to me. Wouldn't it be a lot easier and more efficient in the end to make a template for the session, and then do your multiple takes as playlists? This way your not having to move things later on, both inside the session and to another 'master' session. The playslists will give you different 'layers' for the various takes, and you can line them up pretty quickly and switch between them quickly as well.

I understand the spontaneous issue, but how long does it take to close a session,start a new one, and hit record? Even if you don't title it with the proper title, it should be pretty damn fast.

cheers,
John

[djui5]

Originally posted by coffeeanan
I got it Randy, but what if mixing time comes around and you found some nice eq settings for let's say the kick and snare on song 1.
How to apply these settings to song 2 without having to save setting as " kick eq band x song" on the plugin or fiddle with the session import dialog and having to delete/ import tracks ?
I

Why don't you want to save the settings? That's how I usually do it when I need to put the same settings on something else.

[LTA]

Originally posted by paterno
I understand the spontaneous issue, but how long does it take to close a session,start a new one, and hit record? Even if you don't title it with the proper title, it should be pretty damn fast.

cheers,
John

Still, it is quicker just to hit record. And if you don't spend the time to type in the appropriate title, you will end up with the potential of forgetting what you saved it as. Or worse, having more than one copy of the same session, without knowing which one is the desired one.

And, a lot of work is all relative. Some people think walking 2 blocks to their local CVS/Walgreens is too much work, so they hop in the car to buy their ephedra. Those people will never believe you can walk there faster than they can drive, but it doesn't keep them from thinking they are saving time and being efficient.

[paterno]

Originally posted by LTA
Still, it is quicker just to hit record. And if you don't spend the time to type in the appropriate title, you will end up with the potential of forgetting what you saved it as. Or worse, having more than one copy of the same session, without knowing which one is the desired one.

Yes, it is quicker at the moment to hit record, but I'd rather take the extra minute and not have to worry about it. It's not like putting up another reel of 2"! It is more time consuming later on to create a new session and import the needed files and audio. Plus you'll have to go into the master session and delete the audio if you want to conserve hard drive space. there is just a larger margin for error in my opinion...

As a work around for the title thing, I temporarily type in the time as the title, and note any relevant things that go on during the recording in that session as a reference.

I guess I just have a thing about sitting in front of the computer any longer than I have to...

Cheers,
john

[LTA]

Originally posted by paterno
Yes, it is quicker at the moment to hit record, but I'd rather take the extra minute and not have to worry about it. It's not like putting up another reel of 2"! It is more time consuming later on to create a new session and import the needed files and audio. Plus you'll have to go into the master session and delete the audio if you want to conserve hard drive space. there is just a larger margin for error in my opinion...

As a work around for the title thing, I temporarily type in the time as the title, and note any relevant things that go on during the recording in that session as a reference.

I guess I just have a thing about sitting in front of the computer any longer than I have to...

Cheers,
john

To be fair, it takes about the same number of steps to separate things before or after the session. Sure, there is a file copy going on if you do it after the fact, but i worked it into my file management routine. After finishing a tracking session, i do save all my projects to a partition other than my scratch drives. I'm not a computer phobe, but i hate sitting behind the computer too. I just prefer doing the major computer stuff in one or two intense 15 minute bursts without people waiting, rather than spreading it out across the day. When i'm running a tracking session on my personal rig, I far prefer using the control surface over the mouse and keyboard. With marker control, undo/redo, and save buttons, i don't need to mouse much until file management time comes. Personal workstyle.

Note: I do hit stop alot, so i'm not dealing with a multitrack session of 3 hour long audio segments. Select audio segments, copy, create new session w/ file name, folder, and template type, paste, save, done. Repeat for the next keeper take. Honestly, it doesn't get much faster than that, although the work comes at the end of the session when everybody seems to want to go home. Do you clean your house up before you go on vacation, or when you get back?

[djui5]

it's starting to sound to me like someone's getting lazy...