EQ on stereo bus

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

I agree, it doesn't make much sense. My console isn't going to give me the bass or presence boost I like in my mixes. The console wouldn't be flat if it did!!! (and since when did flat = deficient?)

Shouldn't the bass and presence boost happen during tracnking and then your console can stay flat?

[Ciozzi]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

If your mix needs a global outboard EQ to sound right, you're not done mixing.

If your mix needs a "touch up" at the top and low end, your console or what is sucking that out.

EQ is either an enhancement or a correction. Sounds to me like EQ on the master buss is a correction. A correction for losses. If you don't lose it, then you don't need to make it back up.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

You nailed it!

[wrigley]

try a pair of Pultec Eqp-1a on the mix
there is nothing nicer sounding

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by vernier

I'm not refering to the making of eq changes to fix or improve things, but concerned with the side effects of the equalizer itself ..and again, I'm talkin' parametric, not passive.

Well…

I'm still using Parametric EQ on the individual tracks.

Wouldn't it degrade there too?

I'm not a big fan of "Don't worry, when it's Mastered it will sound good."

If it needs fixing now, it gets fixed now.

I'll give you a perfect example:

Let's say the mix sounds perfectly balanced to you but a tad bit dull. You could say "I don't own a pair of GML EQs so I'm gonna let the Mastering engineer do it."

So in Mastering he boosts 3dB and suddenly the Hi-Hat seems too loud and the Ld Vox has all the SSS's jumping out. You just blew it. The ME has to compromise what he can do. Bright mix vs. Too loud Hi Hat. He can add a De-Esser but it's better to do it on the vocal. Not the whole mix.

If YOU had added that stuff during the mixing phase, you would have noticed this Hi Hat and this SSS's problem and fixed it right then and there.

No?

If you really want a "perfect" solution you could strap on your less than GML EQ to the 2 buss and make your mix perfect to your ears. Then send the ME that Eqed mix plus one without the EQ. Maybe write down the settings.

Enjoy.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

If your mix needs a global outboard EQ to sound right, you're not done mixing.

If your mix needs a "touch up" at the top and low end, your console or what is sucking that out.

EQ is either an enhancement or a correction. Sounds to me like EQ on the master buss is a correction. A correction for losses. If you don't lose it, then you don't need to make it back up.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

You nailed it!

Yeah. To The blackboard of Fascism.

Enjoy.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by wrigley

try a pair of Pultec Eqp-1a on the mix
there is nothing nicer sounding

No doubt.

What a wonderful world it would be if we all had an extra pair lying around.

[AMIEL]

Ok now the question to the guys that use EQ on the 2 Bus.

When do you put it and why in that moment.??

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Produceher

Yeah. To The blackboard of Fascism.

Enjoy.

EXACTLY.....

WTF



If EQ on the 2 buss works then use it. It does things to the mix that I can't get with a bunch of channel EQ's so what am I supposed to do? Not do something to the mix that helps it to sound better because I am to high and mighty standing on my principals? That is just absurd.

fuuck

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

Ok now the question to the guys that use EQ on the 2 Bus.

When do you put it and why in that moment.??

This will go against the grain but usually I strap it on the 2 buss at the top of the mix.

I can't tell you the last time I didn't have to add top end EQ on a mix, I almost always have a few DB's on my mixes anyway so it's better to know what I am getting into ahead of time.

That way I can do exactly what Kenny was talking about above, watch out for other problems like sss's on the vocals or glassy cymbals. I find that I use WAY less in the way of channel EQ when I do 2 buss EQ, almost none at all in fact because I get most of my sounds with mic, preamp and compression (or lack of) in tracking.

YMMV but I don't think it is "wrong" to use EQ on the 2 buss, as I said above it does things that channel EQ's can't do for me.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

This will go against the grain but usually I strap it on the 2 buss at the top of the mix.

I'm using a hyped top end TCMasterX but it essentially does the same thing.

Adds top end before I start mixing. In fact, I track with it on too.

I'm sure there are a few mic and pre-amp combinations that are bright enuff for some of you but I'm not interested.

I prefer to hype my 2 buss and then use the warmest stuff I got.

YMMV. (and should)

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

Shouldn't the bass and presence boost happen during tracnking and then your console can stay flat?

With the way I personally work, EQ happens in small degrees in each step. Usually none, or just a small amount in tracking. Then more on individual tracks during mix, then a little more on the two bus during mixing (I usually bring the two bus EQ in about 60% of the way through the first song we mix, and the first song usually ends up being the template for the consistency of the entire album). Then if we did everything right, mastering is very minimal.

[audiomichael]

Originally Posted by Produceher

I'm using a hyped top end TCMasterX but it essentially does the same thing.
Adds top end before I start mixing. In fact, I track with it on too.
I'm sure there are a few mic and pre-amp combinations that are bright enuff for some of you but I'm not interested.
I prefer to hype my 2 buss and then use the warmest stuff I got.
YMMV. (and should)

Wow, you want some controversy... Start a thread about putting a multi-band compressor on your 2-bus!!!

[deuc647]

80% through the mix, i put an eq on the 2 buss. Producher said it best about eq on the 2 buss.

[Stiff]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

Ok now the question to the guys that use EQ on the 2 Bus.

When do you put it and why in that moment.??

I put it on the very last thing I do. It's second or third in the chain on the master, depending on how I mix that particular session. If I decide to use a tape emulator I put it on after the EQ and have the EQ compensate for the loss of the higher frequencies that the tape emulator causes. But that's not my trick, I stole it from Charles Dye

[noizemakerz]

I like to slap 2x API550s on the 2buss. Even if I dont boost or cut anything, it adds mojo.

[Ciozzi]

Originally Posted by Produceher

Well…

I'm still using Parametric EQ on the individual tracks.

Wouldn't it degrade their too?

I'm not a big fan of "Don't worry, when it's Mastered it will sound good."

If it needs fixing now, it gets fixed now.

I'll give you a perfect example:

Let's say the mix sounds perfectly balanced to you but a tad bit dull. You could say "I don't own a pair of GML EQs so I'm gonna let the Mastering engineer do it."

So in Mastering he boosts 3dB and suddenly the Hi-Hat seems too loud and the Ld Vox has all the SSS's jumping out. You just blew it. The ME has to compromise what he can do. Bright mix vs. Too loud Hi Hat. He can add a De-Esser but it's better to do it on the vocal. Not the whole mix.

If YOU had added that stuff during the mixing phase, you would have noticed this Hi Hat and this SSS's problem and fixed it right then and there.

No?

If you really want a "perfect" solution you could strap on your less than GML EQ to the 2 buss and make your mix perfect to your ears. Then send the ME that Eqed mix plus one without the EQ. Maybe write down the settings.

Enjoy.

If your mix sounds balanced and a tad bit dull... it probably means you can still improve it within the mix.

FWIW, when a mix sounds dull it could be caused by "incorrect" eq'ing or instruments overlapping or ... well so many reasons... but when the hi-end doesn't come out clearly 99% of the times the problem is in the other end of the spectrum and the right cut on the right track fixes it without all those annoying side effects you mentioned.

Maybe it's me but with today's converters and mic's I'd rather cut than boost at 16K

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

If your mix sounds balanced and a tad bit dull... it probably means you can still improve it within the mix.

Absolutely. But if I have 128 tracks running, I'd rather do it on the 2 buss (sometimes)and add less top end on the tracks that have now gotten too bright because of it.

FWIW, when a mix sounds dull it could be caused by "incorrect" eq'ing or instruments overlapping or ...

Well… If I'm incorrectly EQing, then I'm kind of screwed anyway.

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

Maybe it's me but with today's converters and mic's I'd rather cut than boost at 16K

Well, I rarely do anything at 16Khz. Cutting or boosting. That's not an area for NS10's.

[muziqfreek]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Exactly. One of (if not THE) biggest UK mixers does exactly this - Starts mixing with a GML across the SSL mix buss, set to a 6dBish boost at wide Q (but just clicked out of shelving), at around 16k I think. The reasoning behind it being that you don't need to add as much high EQ from the SSL itself.

yup... i can testify to this... (if the gentleman in question is who i think you're referring to... initials M "S" S..? ) if so .. this is indeeed correct... i'm currently working with his ex-assistant on a project... and Booof.... there on the Master Buss is the GML with the settings dialled in... 3db at 14k with the Q on the widest (just short of Shelf) and about the same on the bottom end (3db @ 80Hz, widest Q again....) tht and a bit of Alan Smart's C2... yum yum... record sounds huuuuuuuuuuge!!!

[miqer]

I just finished a track for a commercial (I'm not proud of it)... but anyway... It was perhas a little bit... dull. We had 15 minutes to finish it, and the director asked me if I could freshen it up a bit.

So I slaped the waves Api 560 eq on it on the "fixing oldies" preset... haha, it sounded great. The lows where punchy all of a sudden. The highs sparklin. I saw it on tv yesterday... I don't regret the api preset!

So, if there is a time-limit. Why not.

Perhaps this is considered quik masterin, cause it went straight to tv land.

miqer

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by kittonian

I never recommend eq'ing the master bus/mix. All eq should really be done track by track during the mixing stage. 2-Bus compression is cool to glue it all together if you have a nice compressor for this purpose, but not EQ. That's a mastering engineer's job and he/she shouldn't need to do very much at all.

aaaaahhhhhhh we'll agree to DISAGREE.

[lostinmusic]

Originally Posted by mandzaro

I'm curious, what do you think about a pair of different (various brands, but similar characteristic) 1 ch eq's on stereo bus - a bad idea ?

Martin

Wasn't the OP asking about different eqs on each side..?

Not sure I get that unless it's for an effect - but re. the master buss eq debacle, surely a little tweak's ok? Any more than that and it's a sign to go back and do it again.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by muziqfreek

yup... i can testify to this... (if the gentleman in question is who i think you're referring to... initials M "S" S..? ) if so .. this is indeeed correct... i'm currently working with his ex-assistant on a project... and Booof.... there on the Master Buss is the GML with the settings dialled in... 3db at 14k with the Q on the widest (just short of Shelf) and about the same on the bottom end (3db @ 80Hz, widest Q again....) tht and a bit of Alan Smart's C2... yum yum... record sounds huuuuuuuuuuge!!!

Could be I found that out from his current engineer/right hand man!

[vernier]

yup... i can testify to this... (if the gentleman in question is who i think you're referring to... initials M "S" S..? ) if so .. this is indeeed correct... i'm currently working with his ex-assistant on a project... and Booof.... there on the Master Buss is the GML with the settings dialled in... 3db at 14k with the Q on the widest (just short of Shelf) and about the same on the bottom end (3db @ 80Hz, widest Q again....) tht and a bit of Alan Smart's C2... yum yum... record sounds huuuuuuuuuuge!!!

Gives me the willys. I'll probably have a nightmare about it.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by lostinmusic

Wasn't the OP asking about different eqs on each side..?

Welcome to Gearslutz.

Or any Internet forum.

A question is not meant to be answered on the Internot.

It's merely an opening for people to talk about what interests them or what pisses them off about the original question or person who posted it.

Of course, i never do that!!!

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by Produceher

That is just amazing, how you synchronized the glints off the glasses! How did you do that?

[vernier]

In that case, it doesn't matter.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

That is just amazing, how you synchronized the glints off the glasses! How did you do that?

It's called Glint Detective.

But you need to have Eye-wear HD.

[paterno]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

This will go against the grain but usually I strap it on the 2 buss at the top of the mix.

I can't tell you the last time I didn't have to add top end EQ on a mix, I almost always have a few DB's on my mixes anyway so it's better to know what I am getting into ahead of time.

That way I can do exactly what Kenny was talking about above, watch out for other problems like sss's on the vocals or glassy cymbals. I find that I use WAY less in the way of channel EQ when I do 2 buss EQ, almost none at all in fact because I get most of my sounds with mic, preamp and compression (or lack of) in tracking.

YMMV but I don't think it is "wrong" to use EQ on the 2 buss, as I said above it does things that channel EQ's can't do for me.

I start with it in the signal path to start as well, but I leave it in bypass to at first. After I get the mix in a pretty good place, then I pop it in, add what I feel it needs, and go back to the mix. Sometimes it is cracking a little top or bottom, sometimes it's some midrange frequency that is either deficient -- or most likely building up too much. Usually never more than a dB/ dB and a half. I'll still adjust things in the mix Eq-wise...

JP

[TonyBelmont]

Sometimes I'll use a stereo buss EQ, sometimes I don't. It all depends on my mood, the vibe of the song and what I'm trying to do. Sometimes after I get a rough mix going, I'll throw on the Avedis EQ's or GML and boost a couple db at above 20k and mix through that, and make all EQ decisions based on that boost being present. Other than that, typically I mix in stereo stems and will apply EQ to the stems, rather than the master stereo buss.

[delcosmos]

Originally Posted by muziqfreek

yup... i can testify to this... (if the gentleman in question is who i think you're referring to... initials M "S" S..? ) if so .. this is indeeed correct... i'm currently working with his ex-assistant on a project... and Booof.... there on the Master Buss is the GML with the settings dialled in... 3db at 14k with the Q on the widest (just short of Shelf) and about the same on the bottom end (3db @ 80Hz, widest Q again....) tht and a bit of Alan Smart's C2... yum yum... record sounds huuuuuuuuuuge!!!

Muziqfreek, thanks for sharing that info!!