How Do the Apogee Duet's Pre's Sound?

[Fluency]

I'm trying to figure out a few things. I have an MS1B, M-Audio MobilePre (I'll be the happiest man on earth the day I sell this thing), & Rode NT1A mic that I'm thinking about selling together for around $300-350 - the retail price for them all together is around $520 brand new.

The reason that I'm thinking about selling them is b/c I keep hearing praises regarding Apogee's Duet. I know that it's a good converter, but how do the pre's sound in comparison to something like the MS1B? I've been very satisfied w/ the Rane, but I'm using the MobilePre solely as an interface now & can't stand it (it only has hi-z inputs... so it creates signal loss coming from low outputs and a faint buzz that I think becomes visible after mixing for awhile). I figured if the pre's of the Duet sound equivalent/better than the MS1B, & it also serves as converter, then it's definitely the route to take. I know that each pre offers 75 db of gain, but how much is clean? The reason I ask is b/c I'm using an SM7B & it needs a ton of clean gain in comparison to most mics. The integration with Logic is also a plus.

Any suggestions?

[Fluency]

Anyone?

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by screamingcatfish

dude....i was just looking at your rane preamp........that preamp is a pos [snip] can't be too much better than m-audios....

[Fluency]

Trust me, the MS1B sounds great - a lot of audio-heads swear by it as a low-budget solution. If I remember right, artists like Steely Dan have used it to record a lot of their work.

From what I've read in this thread, the Apogee sounds pretty colored & I'm definitely not looking for that - if I wanted a mid-range boost I'd just flip the switch on the back of the SM7 (which I've tried & it sounds horrible IMO... especially when trying to mix). I'd rather have something clean that I can EQ afterwards.

[Fluency]

Originally Posted by screamingcatfish

and fluencys "last breath" deserves a better preamp ..last breath rules yo............

Thanks, appreciate it - when'd you hear that? I haven't had that song on my page for ages. That track was actually done w/ just the M-Audio & Rode NT1A.

I'll probably end up going w/ the Duet - just didn't want to be disappointed & stuck w/ something that I don't want.

[thermos]

Originally Posted by Fluency

Trust me, the MS1B sounds great - a lot of audio-heads swear by it as a low-budget solution. If I remember right, artists like Steely Dan have used it to record a lot of their work.

From what I've read in this thread, the Apogee sounds pretty colored & I'm definitely not looking for that - if I wanted a mid-range boost I'd just flip the switch on the back of the SM7 (which I've tried & it sounds horrible IMO... especially when trying to mix). I'd rather have something clean that I can EQ afterwards.

It's not nearly as colored as most pres, and the converters really aren't that colored either. I'd agree with others and say its great especially considering the $, but doesn't have as much depth (front to back) as some other pres. But it will certainly get the job done.

[idrinkalot]

yeah, the rane sure "looks" like a real pos. wheres the vu meter, brushed aluminum face, and flashy magazine ads? how can they even sell it without that stuff?

i don't think i'd trust anything that comes from somebody that overuses the word "dude" and replaces any sense of punctuation with a line of ellipses.

[MonoBrow]

Originally Posted by idrinkalot

yeah, the rane sure "looks" like a real pos. wheres the vu meter, brushed aluminum face, and flashy magazine ads? how can they even sell it without that stuff?

i don't think i'd trust anything that comes from somebody that overuses the word "dude" and replaces any sense of punctuation with a line of ellipses.

Nail+Head+Hit.

[Fluency]

lol... surely, out of the thousands of gear nuts on here, somebody has to have at least a remote sense of what both pre's sound like.

I'm not looking for a huge upgrade in the pre department, I just don't want to take a step back in it.

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by screamingcatfish

sounds like steely dan blew all their money on cocaine and had to use 150.00 preamps.......that or rane gave steely dan a lot of money to endorse...........but not because the rane pres are killer.....if you were steely dan would you use rane preamps when you could use a neve??? i don't think so.........but the rane is good if you only have 150.00......it'll do the trick.....
if you heard a martech you'd see how good a preamp can be......
vocals need a rich preamp........yours need it as well,especially since you rap and aren't projecting as much as a singer belting it out......but this is such a debatable subject and there are a million ways to do everything...
you'll dig the the duet.....it's another useful flavor...and your vocals are gonna want more options as you become even better at recording..you're already kiking asss...
your gonna love higher end gear....low end gear just has no sweetness whatsoever......high end gear does......

Actually it was Roger Nichols who used a grip of MS1Bs to record Steely Dan live. And actually they're really not all that bad, not Neve's to be sure, but they certainly do clean and neutral pretty well.
And yes, Roger is endorsed by Rane, so he had some bias to use them, but if they were utter POS I don't think he could have gotten away with it regardless.

[scifijedi]

i just mean a pos for vocals......that's it......sure it's an ok preamp........maybe pos is a bit extreme........but for vocals it would be my very last decision.......i.e...pos for vocals........it's just my opinion though......in my experience......
ones opinion rarely means anything....but is sometimes meaningful /

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by screamingcatfish

i just mean a pos for vocals......that's it......sure it's an ok preamp........maybe pos is a bit extreme........but for vocals it would be my very last decision.......i.e...pos for vocals........it's just my opinion though......in my experience......
ones opinion rarely means anything....but is sometimes meaningful /

I was bummed it doesn't have a pad, its good for drums, but difficult to use with a mic like a 57 with no pad...

[BobNRay]

if you were steely dan would you use rane preamps when you could use a neve???

If I were Steely Dan, why would I use a Neve preamp when there are much better preamps?

B&R

[morebutter]

The Duet pres sound great and have plenty of clean gain. I use them with ribbons no prob.

[morebutter]

I also use the sm7b, gain is no problem with the duet and that mic.

[idrinkalot]

Originally Posted by screamingcatfish

your the one who bought the bose triports.......not me.........drinksalot...

i hate to even entertain you, but those were free from my old job.

[staudio]

The duet has very good mic pre amps considering what your getting for $500.

[David-Morpheus]

A little bit OT but I would like to know how is the output level adjustment implemented - is it a software controlled analog circuit or it is reducing bit resolution on the output ?

[thermos]

Its digitally controlled good ol' fashion analog gain.

I'm really loving my Duet. Just competed a European tour with my Jazz group, and recorded every night with a pair of Oktavas in XY. Really enjoyable to listen back to (WAAAAY more so than with any previous unit I've used in this application). There is enough information in all ranges to make it very sonically pleasing.

[Francis Vaughan]

The pre amps in the Duet are nothing more than a pair of Texas Instruments PGA 2500. This is digitally controlled, but internally has an analog gain control element. Gain control is done as part of the the microphone pre-amps operation, and is before the ADC. An additional 10dB of range is created with a relay operated 10dB pad, which is switched in automatically as you reduce the input gain to quite low levels. You can hear the click as you swap from 21dB to 20dB.

Output levels are controlled inside the DAC chip and are applied digitally.

[kincept]

Do you think the DUET's sound preamps are better than the motu ultralight?

[Peacock]

They sound OK. Not great. I am using it for songwriting not for the tracking. They are clean but not good clean like hardy, DAV or sytek.

[snackyslut]

I sooo had the same m-audio garbage and upgraded to the duet a month a ao and it's a totally different league of awesomeness. I look back at the studio projects...the..cough tascam....the m-audio I've used in the past and they are not even related to how much better sounding and simpler mac-functioning the duet is.

For anyone who says this is extremely colored I disagree. In fact I'm now in search of a solid tube pre for vocals going in, but it's an amazing baseline level of quality. It's another solar system.

[kincept]

I just got the duet and immediately I felt the sound listening through the headphones was weaker than what I was just listening to with my ultarlight. they were clear but lacking strength.

then I plugginto the guitar straight into the in 1 and the sound wont register despite being selected in maestro? It recorded the sound and played it back though? weird?
Ive been able to do that with all my other preamps just strum alittle without connecting to software or through amps? why cant I do it here/?

I haven't recorded I think if it sounds as shitty as it does through my headphones this thing wont last a week.

[kincept]

I did some recording through garage band on guitar, and I have to say it was no better than a TONEPORT. Im kind of a newbie , does this thing have ASIO drivers? or is its core drivers for mac equal to asio drivers.

I'll i need is my mic to arrive and I will no within seconds if this thing is better than the ultralight.

[paulandrewdunker]

From what I have heard, the pres in the Duet are the exact same pres as the Ensemble. I am an Ensemble owner, and I have been VERY happy with it. The biggest difference for me (stepping up to the Apogee from a FireStudio, and before that a 410) is that the pres are super super, super quiet, even when cranked. With my 414's, there is virtually NO noise floor. They are clean, and do not sound colored at all to my ears. I have used it to record some amazing acoustic guitar sounds, vocals, drum overheads, hand percussion, etc. For the money of the Duet, you simply cannot get a better AD/DA. Even if it didn't have the pres, the conveters on the back end alone are worth the price of admission. Listening to music through Dynaudio BM5s straight out of the Ensemble is like a religious experience...

That said...

I have been less than happy with the single rotary knob interface, as I like to ride gain on the fly during takes, and it is a pain switching between sources quickly and quietly. Also, the knobs are quite touchy...sometimes after making an adjustment, they jump to maximum level all by themselves...bizarre.


In any event, the Apogee Duet seems to me like the most bang-for-the buck you can get. Great converters, clean pres (if that is what you want), and portability in an easy to use package for dirty dirty cheap...what's not to love?!

[paulandrewdunker]

PS

to hear some shitty MP3 recordings done with the Ensemble, check out

myspace.com/paulandrewdunker

Listen to Antebellum by Jon Crocker.

I just recorded an album for an artist named Jon Crocker and we did everything except the drum kit through the Ensemble. The instruments came out sounding like you were sitting in the room with them...freaky stuff.
This hasn't even been mixed yet, but it sounds pretty damn good...

[willythekid]

another DUET question - can you bypass the internal pre-amps if you want to use others, e.g. a pair of API:s?

-wtk

[EgyptionRing]

Yes you can, I bought it for the converters not the preamps.