Victor Rice dub reggea style production questions

[miqer]

I came across this artist Victor Rice:

MySpace.com - Victor Rice - São Paulo, SP - Reggae / Dub / Ska - www.myspace.com/victorrice

He makes wicked dub style tracks, and tours the world with his sound system!! Nice... Turns out, he's here on the forum. I asked him if he would answer some questions, hope I can do that here in the "so little time" section...

He Victor, it seems you got your 70ies type dub productions skills down. Wicked! I hope you can answer some of my questions:

- Looking at the youtube video's... You structure the tracks before you put them on tape. You do that on the computer? You track the songs first digital, and then put them to tape? Or am I hearing samples?

- If it's real drums and bass, can you tell me a little how you track and/or mix them? I'm asking for I have tried to get some of that king tubby phatness into my mixes (like you seem to have in the VR_Drum Thief_mp3 from your website), but allways when I turn up the kick or the bass too loud, the mid/highs suffer... you know... Do you have a lot of vintage stuff, or not so much? Using dynamic mic's on the drums?

Like you stated before there is no one way, and it's allways different... just wanted to know how you think you get that driving punch. Might be the mixer... might be the fact that you are from Brazil. :)

thanks,
miqer

[Ricey]

Firstly, thank you for honoring me with my own GS thread i'll try to answer on breaks here at the studio...

Originally Posted by miqer

- Looking at the youtube video's... You structure the tracks before you put them on tape. You do that on the computer? You track the songs first digital, and then put them to tape? Or am I hearing samples?

sources come from all ends of media - some stuff i recorded to tape, some i recorded to computer, some come from remix projects and i'm not always sure how it went down.

i always build my performance tapes(1/2" 8 track) via digital transfer:

Track 1 - Kick Drum
2 - rest of kit
3 - bass
4 - all keys
5 - all guitars
6 - all horns
7 - all vox
8 - percussion, misc instruments(or something i might want to feature).

no samples(in the traditional sense) are used, these tracks are all coming from various productions from various bands.

[MickeySmid]

There is nothing like an Otari in the darkness, and fingers riding the faders! A mouse can not tweak 4 buttons at the same time!!

I love the sound of your tracks. Old skool musical sound. A lot of modern dub type tracks are house-y, and that's not where it's at (imho).

Mickey

[TOFT]

Yeah, cool sounds. Like the look of the studio.

I would like to know about the low bass sounds. Is that just eq and tape compression on a vintage bass? Any tricks to know how far you can go. Do you mix with a sub? I'm sure you do. :)

What mixer is that on the videos?

On the buisnuss (babylon) side of things. Can you come by with touring the world? (sounds like a strange question, but touring can be expensive these days). I see you also compose for TV, hbo etc. Does the commercial work make the other more free work possible? Or is the tv money just extra? Perhaps it's too personal a question, sorry.

paul

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by TOFT

Yeah, cool sounds. Like the look of the studio.

I would like to know about the low bass sounds. Is that just eq and tape compression on a vintage bass? Any tricks to know how far you can go. Do you mix with a sub? I'm sure you do. :)

i don't use a sub. as far as recording the bass and kick to tape, i learned a trick from Gabe the Dap King and i don't know if it would be right to divulge

Originally Posted by TOFT

What mixer is that on the videos?

the live rig is an Allen & Heath Mixwiz. i love them. the one in Brooklyn(with the Otaris) is an A&H as well - but most of my work these days is on an Amek Angela in São Paulo. I'm not Brasilian, by the way, i just live here - i'm from Long Island, NY.

Originally Posted by TOFT

On the buisnuss (babylon) side of things. Can you come by with touring the world? (sounds like a strange question, but touring can be expensive these days). I see you also compose for TV, hbo etc. Does the commercial work make the other more free work possible? Or is the tv money just extra? Perhaps it's too personal a question, sorry.

paul

actually, touring solo is very practical! after the initial investment of course: i have a DubSystem permanently located on the European Continent, and lots of good friends that look after it. another one lives in NY. i also have a machine in LA. i learned the hard way not to fly with heavy, delicate equipment and as a result my '65 Jazz bass lives in Brasil year round.
the TV work definitely helps to smooth over the bumps, but it's not consistent. so i make hay when the sun shines.
free work is pretty much not possible anymore. turning 40 will do that to a guy.

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by MickeySmid

There is nothing like an Otari in the darkness, and fingers riding the faders! A mouse can not tweak 4 buttons at the same time!!

nor 8! one of the reasons i adore 8 tracks is that i happen to have as many fingers

[miqer]

i don't use a sub. as far as recording the bass and kick to tape, i learned a trick from Gabe the Dap King and i don't know if it would be right to divulge

Ha, now this is getting interesting... there actually is a secret!!! Wicked.

I'm listening to the Dap-kings now as we type.

miqer

[MickeySmid]

YouTube - Dap Kings - Casella Walk

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by miqer

- If it's real drums and bass, can you tell me a little how you track and/or mix them? I'm asking for I have tried to get some of that king tubby phatness into my mixes (like you seem to have in the VR_Drum Thief_mp3 from your website), but always when I turn up the kick or the bass too loud, the mid/highs suffer... you know... Do you have a lot of vintage stuff, or not so much? Using dynamic mic's on the drums?

using Drum Thief as an example: drums were recorded to my Tascam 1/2" 8 track w/ two mics - 57 on snare, beta 52 on kick. the timbale hit at the top was picked up by the 57 since it was right next to it. at this point i should give props to my favorite drummer, Eddie Ocampo - he makes it very easy to record the kit. bass went direct through a Walter Woods amp, an amazing piece built with acoustic bass in mind. all recorded stupidly hot to Quantegy 456, solid red meters.

mixing, i normally put the bass on the bottom of the frequency spectrum, kick above it. roughly something like the bass living around 60 Hz and the kick up near 120 Hz...

the signals sound loud, so they don't have to actually be that loud in the mix, it's so one-dimensional that A) it always sounds loud and B) getting the effects to do their thing is easy. i'm also a 1kHz abuser so kick and bass will never cover the snare or other instruments.

when i mixed that track i only had Drawmer comps for the kit, DBX 160A for bass and the Amek 9098 on the mix. since then i've gone kind of crazy with comps - two 1176, two 5043, LA2A reissue, Distressor, C2 on the mix bus. yes, i've been hanging around GS a lot! i still like the Drawmer on the kick though, DL421. i like how it pops out of the gate.

[miqer]

So not much use of condenser mic's (as overheads) when recording drums this style? Mainly dynamics?

I use condensers as overheads and they sound really good, but a bit too 'hifi' sometimes. So in the shitty recording pdf I read about not using condensers and things fell into place. Any thoughts on this?

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by miqer

I use condensers as overheads and they sound really good, but a bit too 'hifi' sometimes.

exactly. i don't want that kind of detail for a number of reasons- aside from the point you make, i want the drums to become 'effect triggers' at mix time because i create my own artificial ambience reverbs/delays. sometimes i will use a hi hat mic and a condenser can be great for that.... but the drier the sound of the drums, the better for me at mix time.

i should also mention that for my own records i reuse drum tracks often, since Eddie Ocampo and Ticklah live in Brooklyn. so personally that's another reason i don't go for mics that could pick up other instruments. hence the nickname 'drum thief' - if i'm playing bass on a session for someone else and i really like the drums, i take them!

[Ricey]

From a PM:

Originally Posted by miqer

Is that a tascam tape or otari

The riddims are mostly recorded to tape, 1/2" 8 track. i have Otari and Tascam machines in NYC, Sao Paulo, LA and Europe.

all the reels are built from computer - and i bring a laptop and Metric Halo interface with me to the live shows in case the tape machine breaks.

Tascam is better onstage because it has Auto Locate, Auto Play, Edit button for audible rewinds, etc and the transport is light and quick. Otari is better left in the studio for recording with its heavy transport, balanced in/out, VU meters and calibration controls.

hope that helps!

[TOFT]

Tape calibration. For a dirty sound, do you use Quantegy GP9 tape? I'm on tape, but not so long yet. I am still recording with the tapes the guy sold me with the machine. These reels will soon be finished. Will need to change and calibrate. Do you do that yourself? on the Otari and Tascam? Also, do you re-use tape over and over until it's just over. And do you ever record at slow speed 7.5 for extra dirty vibe?

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by TOFT

Tape calibration. For a dirty sound, do you use Quantegy GP9 tape? I'm on tape, but not so long yet. I am still recording with the tapes the guy sold me with the machine. These reels will soon be finished. Will need to change and calibrate. Do you do that yourself? on the Otari and Tascam? Also, do you re-use tape over and over until it's just over. And do you ever record at slow speed 7.5 for extra dirty vibe?

i still have some Quantegy 456 left, which is my favorite. 499 is harder tape, and if i'm not mistaken GP9 is harder still(though i never used it). i like the softer tape because the sounds change character when you hit the tape hard. 499 or equivalent takes lots of signal without distorting. what's the fun in that?
only the Otaris can be calibrated and i have two, one in Sao Paulo and one in Brooklyn. the Brooklyn one recently got calibrated by Gabe the Dap King, i don't think i'll touch that one for a while. and he left me instructions on how to do it myself down here in SP.
i try not to reuse tape, though i ran out of 1/4" recently and the only stock available down here is 499 - so i've been reusing 456 rather than hit that. but none of the tapes get hit that much.
i record mixes to 1/4" at 15 IPS, dubs at 7.5 IPS - Smart C2 on the mix bus unless someone wants something more polite, then i'll use a Portico 5043. on live shows i use two digital delays (Lexicon, Effectron), stereo spring reverb(Sound Workshop) and the 5043 or C2 on the mix.

[MickeySmid]

dubs at 7.5? Ha! Great...

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by MickeySmid

YouTube - Dap Kings - Casella Walk

that's Gabe on the bass. do check him.

[Ricey]

i finally have some new video:

[eshepherd]

That was fantastic....a skilled dub producer at work is a thing of beauty.

[JQ127]

Seems to me I've seen these fingers wrapped around a few beer bottles 2 years ago in Brazil on the Marky tour haha!! Hey Victor-its Joe Q.Got a studio in NH now. I'll pm you.

Originally Posted by Ricey

i finally have some new video:

[firby]

That video is is killing me man. I love mixing dub. You make it look so easy. I have always been trying to dub whole productions, the way you set up 8 tracks is genius. Thank you very much for that video.

My question is what is the "WOOOOOM" sound that you get out of the bass ( I think) at 1:11 . That one is new to me. You are opening aux 5 or 6 ? I am guessing maybe you are opening the aux to a reverb that already is set to feedback via the channel of its own return ? It's a great sound.

You don't need to give it away here but whats on 9 10 and 11 on that mixer ? Is that a reverb and two delays ?

Anyways, LOVE IT.

I always go nuts for live dub mixing. Oh one more thing ? Where did you learn it ?

Regards.

Thanks.

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by firby

That video is is killing me man. I love mixing dub. You make it look so easy. I have always been trying to dub whole productions, the way you set up 8 tracks is genius. Thank you very much for that video.

My question is what is the "WOOOOOM" sound that you get out of the bass ( I think) at 1:11 . That one is new to me. You are opening aux 5 or 6 ? I am guessing maybe you are opening the aux to a reverb that already is set to feedback via the channel of its own return ? It's a great sound.

You don't need to give it away here but whats on 9 10 and 11 on that mixer ? Is that a reverb and two delays ?

Anyways, LOVE IT.

I always go nuts for live dub mixing. Oh one more thing ? Where did you learn it ?

Regards.

Thanks.

Glad you dig it - i have no secrets, the WOOOOOM is what happens when you send the bass to the reverb. channels 9-11 are returns from the effects, Effectron 'Brownie" on the short delay, PCM42 on the long delay, PCM60 on the reverb. i have the same kit in Europe for the live show. I got this technique together at a studio in NYC in the '90s called Version City(home to Stubborn Records). The studio has since moved to New Brunswick, NJ.

[lozion]

Ites alive, bro

Originally Posted by Ricey

i finally have some new video:

[Dopamine]

Dope new video!!!

[Remoteness]

Very strong my man! Very strong indeed

[rekloos]

ricey, that's some magic fingers you got there-love it...

gotta question for you, when you say :
' i record mixes to 1/4" at 15 IPS, dubs at 7.5 IPS'
do you mean you multitrack everything to the machine then playback material through the mixer, do the dubs, while recording to 7.5?

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by rekloos

ricey, that's some magic fingers you got there-love it...

gotta question for you, when you say :
' i record mixes to 1/4" at 15 IPS, dubs at 7.5 IPS'
do you mean you multitrack everything to the machine then playback material through the mixer, do the dubs, while recording to 7.5?

yes, that's it - i do try dubs at 15 IPS as well, sometimes i like it more. but i can't say i've liked full-on mixes at 7.5

[UnDeFiNeD]

wow, awesome stuff Victor!
I do a lot of different styles, but dub is the most sacret to me,and yours rocks!

I was going to ask about the verb on te bass, but someone beat me to it.
I tried a lot of reverb plugins for this but never found something that works, since I'm finishing up my analog studio in a couple of weeks i'm going to finally be able to do some experimenting with hardware on my own time
Is there something special about the verb u put the bass trough that creates this distorted "OOOMPH" sound? What do u use? I'm thinking plate but could be wrong.

Let me know when u are in or near Belgium sometime, I'm defo coming over then

Pzz&bless,
Alex

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by UnDeFiNeD

wow, awesome stuff Victor!
I do a lot of different styles, but dub is the most sacret to me,and yours rocks!

I was going to ask about the verb on te bass, but someone beat me to it.
I tried a lot of reverb plugins for this but never found something that works, since I'm finishing up my analog studio in a couple of weeks i'm going to finally be able to do some experimenting with hardware on my own time
Is there something special about the verb u put the bass trough that creates this distorted "OOOMPH" sound? What do u use? I'm thinking plate but could be wrong.

Let me know when u are in or near Belgium sometime, I'm defo coming over then

Pzz&bless,
Alex

i'm using a digital reverb on this session, a Lexicon PCM60 - at the main studio we have a real plate and spring reverb - but sometimes i'll still prefer the PCM60 on certain stuff. with any reverb including plugs, i like to EQ the return pretty heavily, filtering out top and bottom frequencies. there's a lot more that can be done with the 'verb especially on Bass, so i'll try to get a video together showing fun with parametric sweeps

i plan to be on the Continent this spring under the name Strikkly Vikkly, so hopefully we'll meet up. i have some rough plans to work with some groups in Brussels, one of my favorite cities. my EU kit lives in Charleroi!

[GSF]

Thanks for posting this thread. Really interesting stuff that can be applied to a lot of different styles of music.

And Victor, thanks for the interesting responses! I'm a fan of vintage dub from way back, and thanks to Gearslutz, I've just been turned on to some great new stuff.

[lozion]

Originally Posted by Ricey

i'm using a digital reverb on this session, a Lexicon PCM60 - at the main studio we have a real plate and spring reverb - but sometimes i'll still prefer the PCM60 on certain stuff. with any reverb including plugs, i like to EQ the return pretty heavily, filtering out top and bottom frequencies. there's a lot more that can be done with the 'verb especially on Bass, so i'll try to get a video together showing fun with parametric sweeps

i plan to be on the Continent this spring under the name Strikkly Vikkly, so hopefully we'll meet up. i have some rough plans to work with some groups in Brussels, one of my favorite cities. my EU kit lives in Charleroi!

Yep, Pcm60 is the shiznit for dub...
Got me hands on a rare Deltalab Echotron, not Effectron, the one with the flashing tempo led...
Ricey, what delays do you fancy?