Looking for a new fiddle mic...

[johnbohn]

Looking for a new fiddle mic. What do you think?

[rcm]

You are going to think I am joking but I am not.....

I recorded a fiddle on a project a couple years ago with the 2005 Grand Masters fiddle champion of the US. We shot out a bunch of mics and ended up using a Shure SM57 with a Royer 121 out in the room for ambiance.

[uncle duncan]

Compared to what? ('New fiddle mic' implies you're replacing something else.)

I've been using a ADK Hamburg IIau LDC, which has a very thick sound, combined with a touch of presence above the sibilance range. Or a Oktavamod 319 LDC, which seems to have a bit more midrange/less low end than the Hamburg.

2 Peluso mics I wish I had are the P28 tube mic, (sdc, I think) and the VTB, which is a LDC tube mic compared to a Sony C800. They say the VTB has a really natural sounding midrange, with a perceived dip around 6K (no freq response graph) and nice air, which is probably what you'd want for fiddle. Listening to the clips of the P28 on acoustic guitar, compared to the whole rest of the Peluso line, over at the Studio Auditions forum, the P28 had the most natural sound of the bunch. (I don't recall seeing the VTB in that batch of clips.) Perhaps a budget alternative would be the M audio Sputnik tube mic, but I've never heard one.

A ribbon might be nice. Out of the 3 I have, the Shinybox with the Lundahl tranny upgrade has the most natural sound, compared to a AEA R92 and a Beyer M160. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. I would use the Beyer on a dull fiddle and the AEA on a bright one, if I wasn't going to put up an LDC.

[uncle duncan]

Originally Posted by rcm

You are going to think I am joking but I am not.....

I recorded a fiddle on a project a couple years ago with the 2005 Grand Masters fiddle champion of the US. We shot out a bunch of mics and ended up using a Shure SM57 with a Royer 121 out in the room for ambiance.

Must've had worn out strings, from all those contests...

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by rcm

You are going to think I am joking but I am not.....

I recorded a fiddle on a project a couple years ago with the 2005 Grand Masters fiddle champion of the US. We shot out a bunch of mics and ended up using a Shure SM57 with a Royer 121 out in the room for ambiance.

For fiddling (as opposed to classical violinin'), I agree with Chris. I've had good results live and in the studio with a 57 and also an RE20 when I've got one around. Seems to take away the sizzle that I'd normally roll back for that style when using a SDC or LDC as an overhead for a violin. Haven't tried a supplementary ambient mic for this style, but that sounds like a good idea to fill the track out.

[lambro]

these guys have have a really interesting product line

worth checking out, see the applications guide

DPA Microphones

[Dyer Maker]

Originally Posted by rcm

You are going to think I am joking but I am not.....

I recorded a fiddle on a project a couple years ago with the 2005 Grand Masters fiddle champion of the US. We shot out a bunch of mics and ended up using a Shure SM57

Funny as hell but cool!

[JohnRodd]

Originally Posted by rcm

You are going to think I am joking but I am not.....

I recorded a fiddle on a project a couple years ago with the 2005 Grand Masters fiddle champion of the US. We shot out a bunch of mics and ended up using a Shure SM57......

I remember when you sent me the picture of that recording session happening... and I thought - oh that crazy rock guy!

If I ever tried to record a big violin section with a 57... for a film score on a big scoring stage....... I wonder if anyone in the booth would notice?

[jdunn]

If you can find a Neumann U64 they're great for all sorts of string instruments.

[tINY]

Had good luck with the AT u873r - The Earthworks SR69 worked good too.



-tINY

[jimmyjimjim]

Save for the few condensers with the absolute sweetest high-end. (m49, U47, KM56...)
A ribbon is the way to go with fiddles, or violins for that matter.

4038, M160, M130, Royer, AEA all good.

A nice tip is to not place the mic above the fiddle, but rather a bit out in the horisontal plane in the direction the the fiddle player actually projects his sound (aka. the direction in which there would be an audience.)

Not too scratchy, and not too forward low mids.

[Chrisc_o]

I used an Apex 205 on a recent violin session. I chose it to help tame the squeaky high end on this particular violin that was being accentuated by my Rode K2.

I can describe the sound as being very natural and not noticeably rolled off. Very nice sound. Set-up was almost like your typical acoustic guitar; placed near the neck joint angled towards the bridge, about 12" away.

[Ben B]

Believe it or not, I actually found the Rode NT-5 to be very flattering when used on fiddle. I liked it much more than I expected to.

-Ben B

[Jeff16years]

Something i've always wondered...

what the hell is a fiddle? You can fiddle around with a lot of instruments, does that make a piano, a fiddle? If you don't really know how to play the violin but you fiddle around with it a little, does that make it a fiddle? is their some kind of a difference between a violin and a fiddle? is it a different scale or something? is it tuned differently?

[Jeff16years]

Neumann 193

[mmcfarlane]

Originally Posted by Jeff16years

Something i've always wondered...

what the hell is a fiddle? You can fiddle around with a lot of instruments, does that make a piano, a fiddle? If you don't really know how to play the violin but you fiddle around with it a little, does that make it a fiddle? is their some kind of a difference between a violin and a fiddle? is it a different scale or something? is it tuned differently?

A fiddle is a violin, often played 2 strings at a time.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Jeff16years

Something i've always wondered...

what the hell is a fiddle? You can fiddle around with a lot of instruments, does that make a piano, a fiddle? If you don't really know how to play the violin but you fiddle around with it a little, does that make it a fiddle? is their some kind of a difference between a violin and a fiddle? is it a different scale or something? is it tuned differently?

Sometimes a fiddle might be setup differently than a violin -- usually an adjusted bridge height. The fiddle refers to the playing technique rather than the instrument.

BTW, I use a ShinyBox + Lundahl on fiddle, and it sounds very nice.

[uncle duncan]

Originally Posted by Jeff16years

Something i've always wondered...what the hell is a fiddle?

A fiddle is a violin making squeaky noises in a song with 'Yee Haw' in the lyrics, preferably with a banjo included in the instrumentation. A fiddle is not 'played', it is 'sawed'. Fiddle music has a lot of double stops in it - two adjacent strings being played, excuse me, sawed, at the same time. There is not much of an attempt at vibrato in a fiddle players technique. There is not much attempt at perfect pitch, either, but when the notes go by so fast, who's going to notice? Proper fiddle players wear boots, pretenders wear running shoes or sneakers. There is no age limit for fiddle players, unlike other aspects of the music business, where there is a cutoff point.

I hope this post isn't construed as reinforcing a stereotype. Some of my best friends are fiddle players.

[diamondjim]

I am a fiddle player and I record fiddle a lot. First of all, "fiddle" is a generic style with a myriad of sub-styles or genres. It does not necessarily have to be double stops (2 strings at a time) but often is in bluegrass, country, etc. Not so much in Celtic, jazz, etc.

I agree with most of the posters regarding ribbons. The problem with some fiddle playing and some players is that their instruments are not always the best and strings may be worn out, in contrast to orchestral players. The condition of the bow hair, amount of rosin applied, bowing technique, etc. influences the sound tremendously. A ribbon takes the often screechy high end and rolls if off, resulting in a smoother sound.

In addition, every violin sounds different, so this is only a general guide. Different violins are darker, warmer, harsher, brighter, etc. depending on age, quality of wood, strings, etc.

In my experience, your best bet is to use a combination of a ribbon and SDC into a tube preamp, with the mics placed about 18" above the player, facing the bridge area, and then mix to suit. I have had great results with a Cascade 731R and a Chameleon TS-1, into a Presonus ADL600.

I tend to mix more of the ribbon sound, but again you don't want to loose all of the high end harmonics that make the instrument sound like a "fiddle", which is why a SDC is used. I would not choose a 57 by itself, but that could work depending on the sound of the instrument, if paired with a ribbon mic.

[diamondjim]

Originally Posted by uncle duncan

A fiddle is a violin making squeaky noises in a song with 'Yee Haw' in the lyrics, preferably with a banjo included in the instrumentation. A fiddle is not 'played', it is 'sawed'.
I hope this post isn't construed as reinforcing a stereotype. Some of my best friends are fiddle players.

Too late!

How is playing the banjo like an artillery shell? By the time you hear it, it's too late...

[axisdreamer]

I've had good luck with an Shure sm81 mic on violin. It has a sort of smooth ribbon like high end about it.

Also used a Lawson L47 tube mic years ago and had good luck with it!



Good luck to you !!

[Eganmedia]

Royer 121s are nice, as are Beyer 130s. Someone else mentioned a Neumann TLM 193. The TLM 170 is (I believe) basically a multipattern version of the 193. I've use the 170 with good results.

[tINY]

Originally Posted by uncle duncan

A fiddle is a violin making squeaky noises in a song with 'Yee Haw' in the lyrics, preferably with a banjo included in the instrumentation. A fiddle is not 'played', it is 'sawed'. Fiddle music has a lot of double stops in it - two adjacent strings being played, excuse me, sawed, at the same time. There is not much of an attempt at vibrato in a fiddle players technique. There is not much attempt at perfect pitch, either, but when the notes go by so fast, who's going to notice? Proper fiddle players wear boots, pretenders wear running shoes or sneakers. There is no age limit for fiddle players, unlike other aspects of the music business, where there is a cutoff point.

I hope this post isn't construed as reinforcing a stereotype. Some of my best friends are fiddle players.

You should take the time to find some good fiddle players to listen to as a reference....

...soulful vibrato, frenetic counterpoint, rythmic chucks...

Nevermind, you'd probably look out of place in your suit at any venue where a good fiddle player was sawin'.....

(some of the best fiddlers I've heard were wearing 4 inch heels....)


-tINY

[soupking]

I haven't tried too many mics, but one set-up we commonly use is an RCA bk-5 in front while having the violinist facing a hard wall and then place a LDC behind her to catch the reflections.

Then we sum the two through a tube mixer.

That gives us really good results. Originally we tried putting the LDC in front of her but we thought it would turn out a little strong in the mix so we moved it back.

Oh, and a good fiddle/violin player helps too.

[Musiclab]

I have often recorded Eomon O'Rourke who plays with Kathy Mattea.
He gets a big rich sound and loves a KM184.

[uncle duncan]

Originally Posted by tINY

you'd probably look out of place in your suit at any venue where a good fiddle player was sawin'.....(some of the best fiddlers I've heard were wearing 4 inch heels....)-tINY

Dude - I was just trying to continue the joke for the poster who was pretending he didn't know what a fiddle was. Out here in Arizona, there are fiddlers all over the place, mostly wearing boots, although the one I gigged with Friday night was, indeed, wearing running shoes. (I'm with you on the 4 inch heels.) Other than the occasional big money resort gig, the last time I wore a suit was for a funeral a few years ago.

[analogjeff]

always depends on the player, instrument (bright/warm, smooth/gritty), type of strings (more or less metallic), tempo of song and bow movement, room, etc. etc., ...but our favorite combination is usually a royer 121 and a U67, blended about 70/30 respectively... the 67 isn't ours, though, so sometimes we use the 121 and an older 414... then the mix is about 80/20... haven't liked sdc's, especially 184's... we place the mics next to each other, at equal distance about 24 inches away... above and in front, at angle of violin... lots of other strategies can work, too... most important thing is smoothness without losing some sense of air... ribbons are good...

[tINY]

OK, then. Boots sounds about right in AZ.

Still prefer the curvy fiddlers in heels, though. It's great when you get 2 or 3 bands at a festival with lady fiddlers - they seem to always try to outdo eachother on the outfits....




-tINY

[uncle duncan]

What I like about lady fiddlers is the way they work their G string. (Please don't tell me violins don't have a G string. That would totally ruin the fantasy.)