Upgrade guitar or buy new?

[john.sawyer]

Do those guitars feel good in your hands? If they feel good I'd go the route of upgrading them. If you don't like the sound and they don't feel good to you then start checking out other instruments.

On a side note I always thought the G&L ASAT was a pretty good guitar.

[initialsBB]

What's wrong with the pots? As long as they're not crackly or anything why bother changing them? I think that as long as the guitar can hold intonation then the feel of the neck is all that really matters.

[djwayne]

I wouldn't go the upgrade route, I'd either trade them in or sell them for one really great guitar that I was totally nuts about.

I'd say hit the local music stores and see what's available in your area. Who knows, you might find a great used guitar out there.

[davet]

I did the upgrade thing with a Mexi Strat. Replaced the PUPS, pots, tuners, installed a roller nut, new pick guard. The project worked out OK. I've got about $850.00 in it. A few months ago my local Guitar Center had a like new/used Honey colored HSS American Deluxe Strat for $850.00. My guitar is nice, the HHS Strat was nicer.

My Strat project was done for fun and the experience. I'll never get out of it what I've put in. If you do the upgrade thing for fun, I say go for it. If you want a nice guitar with resale value, trade in all three for something that will hold it's value.

DaveT

[Jax]

Originally Posted by john.sawyer

Do those guitars feel good in your hands? If they feel good I'd go the route of upgrading them. If you don't like the sound and they don't feel good to you then start checking out other instruments.

On a side note I always thought the G&L ASAT was a pretty good guitar.

Yeah, none of the guitars I have are troublesome or uncomfortable to play. As far as sound, I think they could all use better pickups (although I like the gibson's). I'm looking for better overall clarity from all of them, and tighter bottom end. Part of that could be related to the suspect cabinet I'm using.

Do you consider even the "Tribute" ASAT a good guitar? I think it's decent, and the pups have one helluva bark (although not clear enough).

Originally Posted by initialsBB

What's wrong with the pots? As long as they're not crackly or anything why bother changing them? I think that as long as the guitar can hold intonation then the feel of the neck is all that really matters.

Well, nothing's wrong with the pots. I keep reading that people change out their pots to higher impedance one's, I assume because it improves the sound quality. The intonation on two of them is poor at the moment, although the neck feels good to get around on. That's why I'm considering upgrading them to a solid intonation system.

Any more ideas, anyone?

[Heartfelt]

Intonation is always fixable with the right bridge and they are not that expensive. I don't see getting noticeable tone from pots. Pickups wouldbe where to start.

However, I have a guitar that is a reissue and replacing all wiring is a given by most who buy these. So that is not so unreasonable for a more expensive guitar.

But, think about Eddie Van Halen. His was a piece but he kept it and modified it himself... made a few good tunes with it to boot.

I think the bottom line was mentioned above... does your guitar move you or do you WANT something else.

[Protools Guy]

Check out Grem Guitars. They are AMAZING!
GREM USA

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

Intonation is always fixable with the right bridge and they are not that expensive.

Yeah, assuming that the fretwork is good and the neck is straight, which is the point I was getting at. If the guitar "works" on some basic level and you like the feel of it and the acoustic sound of it, then everything else is upgradable. I think there are bigger variations in the necks of pricey modern gibsons than there are between say "cheap" epiphones, ibanezes and g&ls and their pricier fender & gibson counterparts.

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by Jax

The epi actually has really cool sounding pickups, but I'd want to replace the cheapo whammy with either a Buzz Feiten system or Earvana.

The intonation on two of them is poor at the moment, although the neck feels good to get around on. That's why I'm considering upgrading them to a solid intonation system.

Buzz Feiten is just a new nut, not a bridge. I believe Earvana is probably the same. So why not get an inexpensive stop tailpiece or a nicer replacement tremelo bridge for the epi and spend a little money to get a good setup. Maybe you need a new nut cut or a neck adjustment or something or maybe the intonation problem is something that a simple setup would take care of. That would be a pretty cheap way to find out if you can fix up what you have or if you really want something different.

[bombasterd]

The earvana is a great addition to any guitar. I have one on a highway one strat and it's killer. BUT, I'd say buy new or newer used. I think you'll find the build quality of the US made stuff much better than the older out-of-country stuff you have there.

[Francis Vaughan]

The above is dead right. Start with how it plays. If it feels right in your hands, totally ignoring the sound, keep it. It is a personal thing, but a really great guitar just makes you want to play it. From what you write, it doesn't really sound as if any of yours does it for you. So the advice to go and play a lots of other (potentially more expensive) guitars is good. You might find "your" guitar somewhere. Then you will know the answer.

Worrying about the intonation sounds more as if you are just basically unsatisfied with the guitar. Depends upon the sort of music you play, but going Buzz Feiten or Earvana is a somewhat esoteric route, and of itself does not fix intonation issues, rather it optimises them, mostly directed at jazz players. They are not whammy bars, Earvana products are nuts, the Buzz Feiten system is a modification to the nut position and a defined tuning system. The mod is performed by licensed luthiers. There is a reason why the vasy majority of guitars, even the most expensive still use the traditional design and dimensions.

Replacing the pickups has been a well worm path to upgrading an otherwise good guitar. Only worth it is you really like the feel and the way it plays. But many people have gotten lucky and picked up cheap guitars that are really nice. Going through the rack of Squire Strats has been known to turn up the occasional really good one. Of course you have to accept whatever colour it is.

Messing with pot values and capacitors can help tweak the pickups sound, but really something to worry about when you have most of everything else sorted. You mention not liking the cabinet. What about the amp? The amp is what makes the biggest difference to your tone. Playing through some rotten semiconductor device, or idiotic modelling amp is never going to be satisfactory.

Overall it just sounds as if you aren't happy, but don't really quite know why yet. Being a proper gear slut you should develop some lust for something really good, and then work out how to get there.

One approach might be to work out how much money you could get for your whole rig - guitars, amp, cabinet, and then use this as a notional starting budget to go out and see what you can get for the money in a single guitar and a nice combo amp. Just as a thought experiment. But play the guitars out there. There are some very very fine instruments being made now, and not all of them are silly money.

[HockeyMike]

It starts with the wood...if the guitar doesn't sound good when it's played un-plugged (resonant as opposed to flat and plywoody), even big$$$ hand-wound pickups in it still won't help. If it does sound good and feels good to play, replacement parts can be a big step up.

What model Ibanez and Epiphone?

[vernier]

Keep one, get rid of the others, then woodshead like mad and become hot.

[chetatkinsdiet]

I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a guitar like that. Sell em all and start with a quality guitar. Believe me, I've got, and had my share of MIJ and MIM Fenders and other stuff like old 80s Ibanez guitars and other things. I've tried to replace tuners, pickups, etc. Sure, it makes them sound better, or at the least, different. But, at the end of the day, it's just never going to sound or feel like that great Fender, Gibson, or other higher end guitar, once you find the one that feels right to you.
Not to rehash everything that's been said on other posts, but the woods better, the construction's better, the plating on parts are better, the parts are better, the wiring is better, and on and on and on.....

I could bring up a million analogies that fit here, but you probably don't want to hear them. I'll stick to one simple one. I have a late 80 MIJ 62RI Strat that I love. It was cheap, it feels nice and sounds pretty good. It feels better to me than just about any run of the mill US made standard Strat I've played. But then I picked up a used Custom Shop 60 RI Strat in Fiesta Red. Holy crap...night and day. There is nothing that I can do to the MIJ strat to come close to the other one. I still enjoy the MIJ to play in the house and stuff, but I bet I haven't plugged it in more than once or twice after that first week or so when I got the other one just to compare them.

A buddy of mine used to laugh at me for buying Gibsons, saying they're overpriced and that he can swap the pickups in his Epi SG and be just as good as my 61 RI SG. I guess he was partially correct that his Epi sounded ok....never felt as good as mine. Oh yeah, I still play mine quite a bit. Last time I checked the book value/resell on mine is around $1200-1400. His Epi SG snapped in two at the neck/body joint because of the weaker tendon that they use on the Epi's. He replaced that one with a Custom Shop SG and has never been happier. As a matter of fact, he's since bought an expensive Fender Custom Shop and a few others.
Really, it's fine to upgrade some cheaper guitars to a point, but to put that much into a cheap guitar is crazy. Think about it....you could take that $850 and nearly buy a used SG Std. Heck, you can definitely take it and grab an SG Classic or one of those super cool mid 90s LP Juniors with the P90s and have a tone monster.

Just my .02 on the subject.

m

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by chetatkinsdiet

Sell em all and start with a quality guitar.........................Think about it....you could take that $850 and nearly buy a used SG Std. Heck, you can definitely take it and grab an SG Classic or one of those super cool mid 90s LP Juniors with the P90s and have a tone monster.

This is wise advise.

You are not thrilled with what you have and a guitar player MUST have at least one guit that thrills him/her.

Set yourself a budget and go out and find YOUR instrument.....it is out there. And while you're looking keep one and play the heck out of it.

[lane thaw]

Yes. That's why to me Ebay is such a crap shoot and I am 1 for 3 on ebay. Hit pawn shops, play guitars in stores, until you find one that gives you "that" feeling and sound. But, yes, play it unplugged for awhile in a quiet spot.

Originally Posted by HockeyMike

It starts with the wood...if the guitar doesn't sound good when it's played un-plugged (resonant as opposed to flat and plywoody), even big$$$ hand-wound pickups in it still won't help. If it does sound good and feels good to play, replacement parts can be a big step up.

What model Ibanez and Epiphone?

[CrankyRayHanky]

$700 of upgrades > the originally moderate priced guitar= NO

[ToddS]

Its all about how you feel about those guitars. If you like the way they play, but want to make them better instruments, upgrade. If you feel you could do better starting from scratch, buy. It comes down to what you think of the current guitars vs a new one. consider how good the wood is on the current guitars and how the neck feels, the scale, string height to body etc.

[LewisWu]

i've built 12 guitars over the years.. purchasing or salvaging necks from various sources.. the biggest thing to keep in mind is the neck, and how comfortable it is to play.. pickups can be changed with realtive ease, same with caps, pots, and other misc. components. Necks.. they're a little bit more difficult to modify, and if you screw it up... well, there's no return to zero. i say, if you like the way they play, have fun and learn a thing about your axe.. install a push pull pot phase reverse switch, or one of those tbx circuits. personally, i've always liked g&l guitars.. they've always made me think "this is what a fender should be like"

[davet]

FWIW, I bought a used PRS Custom 24, 10 top with Birds. This guitar plays real nice, it sounds great, has "Mo Jo" or something. It will never need to modified. Probably more than you want to spend, but it sure is sweet and fun to play.

DaveT

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by chetatkinsdiet

I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a guitar like that. Sell em all and start with a quality guitar. Believe me, I've got, and had my share of MIJ and MIM Fenders and other stuff like old 80s Ibanez guitars and other things. I've tried to replace tuners, pickups, etc. Sure, it makes them sound better, or at the least, different. But, at the end of the day, it's just never going to sound or feel like that great Fender, Gibson, or other higher end guitar, once you find the one that feels right to you.
Not to rehash everything that's been said on other posts, but the woods better, the construction's better, the plating on parts are better, the parts are better, the wiring is better, and on and on and on.....

I could bring up a million analogies that fit here, but you probably don't want to hear them. I'll stick to one simple one. I have a late 80 MIJ 62RI Strat that I love. It was cheap, it feels nice and sounds pretty good. It feels better to me than just about any run of the mill US made standard Strat I've played. But then I picked up a used Custom Shop 60 RI Strat in Fiesta Red. Holy crap...night and day. There is nothing that I can do to the MIJ strat to come close to the other one. I still enjoy the MIJ to play in the house and stuff, but I bet I haven't plugged it in more than once or twice after that first week or so when I got the other one just to compare them.

A buddy of mine used to laugh at me for buying Gibsons, saying they're overpriced and that he can swap the pickups in his Epi SG and be just as good as my 61 RI SG. I guess he was partially correct that his Epi sounded ok....never felt as good as mine. Oh yeah, I still play mine quite a bit. Last time I checked the book value/resell on mine is around $1200-1400. His Epi SG snapped in two at the neck/body joint because of the weaker tendon that they use on the Epi's. He replaced that one with a Custom Shop SG and has never been happier. As a matter of fact, he's since bought an expensive Fender Custom Shop and a few others.
Really, it's fine to upgrade some cheaper guitars to a point, but to put that much into a cheap guitar is crazy. Think about it....you could take that $850 and nearly buy a used SG Std. Heck, you can definitely take it and grab an SG Classic or one of those super cool mid 90s LP Juniors with the P90s and have a tone monster.

Just my .02 on the subject.

m

+1

compared to Gibson, Epi uses real cheap wood. really cheap
Not to mention it doesn't use the same species for that matter.
They don't use Maple and Mahagony on their Epi Les Pauls.

That reason alone they will never sound as good or the same.
Just look for a well built gtr many from quailty materials

Guitars sound the way they do because of the shape
the components and the wood. Not the logo and not the hype

If you build a strat in your basement using the same exact materials
in the same way fender makes it. It will sound the same. period!

Once you realize this It will change your whole thought process when trying
to select the right gtr for you.

If a certain logo on a gtr makes you play better than buy that guitar
but it will not really make a difference in the grand scheme

[ToddS]

Lots of things about guitars are over-rated and over priced. I think Fenders are still a good deal as far as new guitars go...gibson pricing is totally out of hand. All wood sounds different, and much of it is personal preference - bass, ash, alder, mahogany all are good for guitars.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by initialsBB

Buzz Feiten is just a new nut, not a bridge. I believe Earvana is probably the same. So why not get an inexpensive stop tailpiece or a nicer replacement tremelo bridge for the epi and spend a little money to get a good setup. Maybe you need a new nut cut or a neck adjustment or something or maybe the intonation problem is something that a simple setup would take care of. That would be a pretty cheap way to find out if you can fix up what you have or if you really want something different.

Each of the guitars have been professionally setup a few times in their lives, but none of them have kept their intonation for very long. I began to think this is normal for guitars, or normal within a certain amount of time. In other words, I expected that all guitars drift out of intonation eventually.

The disappointment is when after only a week of being setup, a few places on the fretboard begin buzzing again. I assume this is due to either a poor setup, or the guitar has other issues, which the setup guy should have noticed.

Anyway, what I'd like is a guitar that stays in tune more of the time than not, is in tune throughout the neck, and without fret buzz.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan

Worrying about the intonation sounds more as if you are just basically unsatisfied with the guitar. Depends upon the sort of music you play, but going Buzz Feiten or Earvana is a somewhat esoteric route, and of itself does not fix intonation issues, rather it optimises them, mostly directed at jazz players. They are not whammy bars, Earvana products are nuts, the Buzz Feiten system is a modification to the nut position and a defined tuning system.

Slight misunderstanding - I know the Buzz and Earvana products are not whammies. I meant that I want to replace the whammies with non-trem bridges, like a Badass bridge. For some reason, I thought the Buzz included a bridge.

What about the amp? The amp is what makes the biggest difference to your tone. Playing through some rotten semiconductor device, or idiotic modelling amp is never going to be satisfactory.

I'm happy with the amp. It's a Randall RM4 with RT2/50. It could be better, but I don't consider it to be the weak point in my rig.

Overall it just sounds as if you aren't happy, but don't really quite know why yet. Being a proper gear slut you should develop some lust for something really good, and then work out how to get there.

Well, I'm aware of all these problems: inability to stay in tune for more than a song or two, fret buzz, not in tune at the 12th fret.

Sure, I'd probably love to have a PRS McCarty or that kind of quality, but it boils down to wanting my current axes to play the way they should. What's unknown is if they're in good enough condition to recondition, or if I should move on.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by HockeyMike

It starts with the wood...if the guitar doesn't sound good when it's played un-plugged (resonant as opposed to flat and plywoody), even big$$$ hand-wound pickups in it still won't help. If it does sound good and feels good to play, replacement parts can be a big step up.

What model Ibanez and Epiphone?

I can't tell the model of the Ibanez (no label anywhere), but the Epi is a Gibson. The Gibson sounds good unplugged. The Ibanez sounds like plastic striking metal...

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by Jax

So I've got 3 guitars, none of them are very high quality. One of them belongs to a friend who doesn't want to sell it and get a better axe, but I could probably convince him otherwise.

The guits are a late 80's gibson epiphone (which I WON), late 80's Ibanez and a G&L Asat Tribute. The epi actually has really cool sounding pickups, but I'd want to replace the cheapo whammy with either a Buzz Feiten system or Earvana.

I'd probably also upgrade the pots, pick-ups and electronics on my guitars if I go that route. Is it worth spending up to $700 for better quality components, or better to just get a new guitar?

Even on some new instruments, I keep reading about how stock parts aren't all that great. School this guitar noob!

All decent guitars (except the Ibanez... just joking, metal dudez).

Replacing pickups will yield an improvement of around 10 percent or less.
Other electronics, quite a bit less.
Tuners can help if you are having tuning problems- but make sure they are exactly the same diameter as the existing ones and try to make sure you don't have to drill additional screwholes.

An earvana nut is an excellent upgrade if you want better intonation.

The reality is that it is all in the hands.

Jeff Beck would take your guitars and make them sound like 'God'.
Jimmy Page would make them sound like 'the Hammer of the Gods'.
Devin Townsend would make it sound like 'Oh My F*cking God'
Steve Vai would make it sound like 'Oh God, make him stop'.

The truth is going to be you are better off spending a month playing 2-3 hours more a day than you are playing now than spending any cash.
But, this is gearslutz so I guess the best thing to do is buy another guitar.
Given what you have I would suggest a 335 stylee unless the Gibson is a 335 sylee, thin that case a Les Paul or similar.

Or sell the lot and buy one great guitar (I vote a tele).

[ALL*MYTEE]

Would you rather drive a souped-up Hyundai or a stock Honda Accord? Both cost about the same.

Ain't nothing like the real thing, baby.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by octatonic

Replacing pickups will yield an improvement of around 10 percent or less.
Other electronics, quite a bit less.
Tuners can help if you are having tuning problems- but make sure they are exactly the same diameter as the existing ones and try to make sure you don't have to drill additional screwholes.

An earvana nut is an excellent upgrade if you want better intonation.

Cool, good to read some specifics. The Earvana is going on one guitar for starters. If it works as well as it should, the others might get one.

Jeff Beck would take your guitars and make them sound like 'God'.
Jimmy Page would make them sound like 'the Hammer of the Gods'.
Devin Townsend would make it sound like 'Oh My F*cking God'
Steve Vai would make it sound like 'Oh God, make him stop'.

Hahaha. If this were the "guitarworld.com" forum, I'd make that my sig.

The reality is that it is all in the hands.....
The truth is going to be you are better off spending a month playing 2-3 hours more a day than you are playing now than spending any cash.

You're completely right! A truth simple enough to be forgotten amid the glare of jewels in any good guitar shop, or even the weekly musicians-fiend catalog.

Case in point: A couple of years ago, my guitar player's buddy came up from Los Angeles and jammed with us at my studio. His ability and chops were on another level compared to our's, yet the axe he brought with him was a cheap "beater guitar" Ibanez. Regardless of the instrument, he made it sound really good.

I don't think I'm buying a new guitar, at least not yet. The only reason I'd need ONE good guitar is when it's time for the keeper tracks.