recording chain for TD-10 drum module / synth

[mmcfarlane]

I'm currently recording my Roland TD-10 drum module in my home studio like this:

- TD-10 > Two Rolls 4-channel Active DI's > 01V96 preamp.

I'm plan to replace the 01V96 with an Aurora16.

For those that record drum modules (or synths)

1) Do you think I need preamps in this chain or could I just go direct (line level) out of the TD-10 and into the Aurora 16s?

2) How long of a line level snake could I safely run from the drums to the converters?

3) Is there a recommended/preferred line level driver of some kind, perhaps with ground lifts...

3) Would an API 3124 do the '312 drum magic' on these (sampled/synthesized) drums?

I hate to go to the expense of adding 8 more channels of preamps ($5K?) just to record the TD-10. Maybe an Onyx 800R that I could double for live use...

Current preamps: Portico 5012, Two Summit 2BA-221s, other unmentionables

[mmcfarlane]

The TD-10 drum head is rated for +4 dBu (unbalanced) output (1.22 volts).

My TD-10 is able to drive the inserts on my 01V96 which are rated nominal -2dB(u) (616mV) max +18 (6.16 V to clipping).

The TD-10 drives the 01V96 inserts OK, not as hot as it could be, but the signal is still clear and quiet.

Th Aurora is spec'd at +4dBu (1.78V) nominal or -10dBV (.316V)

So it looks like the TD-10 can drive the Aurora16 directly, albeit a tad to cold or a tad too hot.

[Snatchman]

I sorta record like this sometimes. ( 2) TD-5 into outboard DIs ( Ditto, Avalon, ( kik and snare) and the VTB-1 x2 ( stereo pair), into Pro VLA compressors, into OSA L-3s pres..) Don't sound 'xactly like real drums, but the tubes, transformers, in the signal path definately sound better than just going straight line-level..! ( IMHO)..Actually works pretty well with EQ/reverb added..Good luck....

[TAVD]

Originally Posted by mmcfarlane

3) Would an API 3124 do the '312 drum magic' on these (sampled/synthesized) drums?

I usually run my TD-10 through Biz or BAE 312 preamps and it makes all the difference.

[electropoet]

Hi,
From my experience (I frequently record and mix midi grooves from my TD-12) what kind of preamp you record into makes virtually no difference. I mean...use a good, clean signal path...but the API sound comes from the actual micing (placement, room, mic used, etc, etc)...plugging a synth into it is not going to fool anyone into thinking you miced a kit using API preamps. Certainly the DI on the API's would sound different (and better) than other cheaper inputs...but its not huge...the difference in sound is going to either come from the level of skill of either the programming and/or playing. After that...the way its mixed and eq'd (ITB) is going to help dictate how well the loops fit.

I have a pacifica which I track my E-drums through...my first priority is to make sure the kit i've programmed in the TD-12 sounds good...if recording i'll leave mostly dry with just a bit of room ambience. Next, decide how much i want to drive the pacifica...as this can affect the sound a bit...especially if you pad the sound...but honestly...when a track is done...theres not a huge difference if I just went it direct to my soundcard...especially when everything is mixed and mangled. Direct, recorded at 24 bit/48k works just find.

Dude, the 3124 is a legend...worth having....but not for recording e-drums. It just makes no real difference.

[electropoet]

Just to add....the ulitmate quality of the sound of the kit is dictated by the samples themselves....not in any way of how the module is recorded. It may change the sound in some small way (relative to other preamp options) by using a Neve 1073 followed by a UA 1176 followed by a UA LA-7A, etc, etc, etc...but the sound of the drums will be a hell of a lot more effected by the programming within the module.

To me it silly to sweat how e-drums are recorded...keep it clean, the levels good, and at a high bit depth...and then tweak away once the sound is in the computer and ready for mixing.

my .03 cents.

[maq]

Slightly OT:

Mark,

Have you tried recording them as a midi track as well? There are certainly many great sample libraries out there and it offers options down the road.

[mmcfarlane]

Originally Posted by maq

Slightly OT:

Mark,

Have you tried recording them as a midi track as well? There are certainly many great sample libraries out there and it offers options down the road.

I usually record the TD-10 as midi alongside 6-8 channels of audio. It makes 'fixing' drummer mistakes a lot easier :) I don't have a sample libray, I just play it back to the TD-10. I actually rarely redo the midi though, my production style is typically an hour or less to track a song and 2-3 hours to mix it and there isn't much time to 'fix' things. Guess I'm not a perfectionist.

I just bought Groove Agent and I may be able to run it from a midi track, I haven't opened the box yet. I got Groove Agent as an easy way to lay down basic tracks for singer/songwriter types without having to hastle hooking up and playing the drums, which are usually at the other end of the house in my rehearsal space.

Sometimes I'm the drummer that needs fixin'.

[mmcfarlane]

I usually run my TD-10 through Biz or BAE 312 preamps and it makes all the difference.

Just to add....the ultimate quality of the sound of the kit is dictated by the samples themselves....not in any way of how the module is recorded.

Don't sound 'xactly like real drums, but the tubes, transformers, in the signal path definately sound better than just going straight line-level

From my experience (I frequently record and mix midi grooves from my TD-12) what kind of preamp you record into makes virtually no difference.

+2 for preamps
+2 for line in

I know, I must have been high to think there would be a consensus on Gearslutz.

I guess I need to make some tests myself (ya ya ya) with the Portico, etc and see what happens.

How long can the line-level output cable be from the TD-10 to the converters/preamps, e.g. could I run a 50 foot 8 channel snake? I don't know what the issues are for long line-level runs.

[Snatchman]

I agree we some of the things that the previous posters stated about the samples has to be good, etc. to begin with. But as anything else that's recorded, altering the signal before tracking, is up to the user. I try, as when mic placement comes first in acoustic recording, to get the sounds from my e-drums ( or anything DI'ed) before I press record. If it takes DI box, different pre-amps, mic'ing amps, ( have you tried re-amping e-drums thru a mic'ed amp?) etc., then that's what I'll do. I personally don't wanna wait and depend on EQ to make it " happen" in the mix. ( YMMV).... IME, I've found that sometimes EQ'ing sampled stuff leads to excessive noise at mix time. ( especially hi-frequency based stuff)...As always..YMMV

[electropoet]

Yeah...you're right...its hard to get everyone to agree!

I'd never say that recording a drum or synth module through a really good DI won't sound better than recording through a regular input...it most likely will. But its not like recording acoustic drums through API's.

It sounds like you whip up tracks pretty quickly...but I'm looking forward to eventually creating a hybrid set. Like I said, I have a TD-12 and the Hart Snare and Kick which are extremely responsive and sound great. I'd keep that, but then add acoustic cymbals and record that with a pair of overheads and a hi hat mic. I'm convinced it would be the easiest way to get great sounding drum tracks from the home studio. You lose the midi edit capability...but you don't have to worry about the snare and kick micing which is incredibily difficult to get right. I can't wait to try it.

Maybe something to consider. As always...a million ways to skin a cat.