Fractal Audio Axe-Fx or low watt tube amp w/amp attenuator for apartment recording?

[Alex Wyler]

Has anyone tested out the Fractal Audio Axe-FX guitar amp modeller/effects pocessor and compared it to using a low watt amp set quiet or one of those Randall Isolation boxes or the Palmer or Sequis Motherlode Boxes?

Those seem to be the current alternatives for us apartment dwellers...we are many!

The Axe-FX is an amp modeller but apparently engineered to the tits! SO much so that it is the leader in amp modelling and far far beyond any of the Line 6, SansAmp or Vox onelab offerings which were previously the most sucessful attempts at giving you real amp tone direct. But those products aren't even close. SansAmps are useful for adding dirt to anything because they are analog and you don't have to worry about the phase problems you would get due to the latency of the digital processing in a POD or Tonelab.

The Axe-FX has all the mic models and cabinet models you could ever want including the Royer R121, The Neumann U67, Sennhieser 421, 409 and then all the regular fare...57, RE-20, 58, D112...it does all the mics..there is a huge list! Emulations of course. There is control for rectifier sag and all sorts of other tube amp quirks that add up to the character sound.

Apparently this modeller has the real sense of air and that interaction between speaker vibration and mic. People say they play and it feels liek the real thing. The response to the touch is according to many, just liek playing through the real amp.


I am skeptical. However, it doesn't have to be exact...but is it passable and believeable and does it sound like paper and wood and not plastic?

But people are saying that they can't hear the difference between this any real amps. Some people even say that it takes a bit of work to get their real amps to match the great sound.

My only concern is how organic it really is and how dynamic it is. How analog sounding the thing is..especially the top end. And most of all, if it fits together with real microphone source tracks well or if it suffers the same fate as the other modellers thus far in not being able to blend and fit in a mix compared to the real deal.

Which option is better for apartment recording where neighbours are a concern?

Love to hear from users about the Axe-FX now,

The floor is yours.

[Kiwiburger]

Sounds like spam to me. I vote Neither.

For apartment dwellers, I believe the best solution is to track a clean, dry pickup signal for the purpose of reamping later. A modelling plugin can be used as a temporary place-filler - but they are never going to sound great, so don't waste any real money on one. I find the one in Cubase SX4 good enough for the job. Plenty of freeware works.

For monitoring in realtime, I think battery amps are the low volume solution. Freedom from AC connection solves a lot of hum issues. And these little toy amps can squeal with feedback and very low volume.

Use a real studio, or one of the online reamping providers to get great amp tones from your final edited dry tracks.

[JockeSkog]

The Axe-fx IS really really really.. (5 min later)... really good! I'm a palm-muter that use a LOT of gain, and the axefx just delivers. There's no headphone out though, but most soundcards have direct monitoring anyway.

My favorite sound with a Rectifier through a custom IR (yes, just add your own favorite cab Impulses) sounds just like I hear it, standing in front of my 4x12. It's so dynamic, that when I barely touch the string, it's clean. The sound I'm talking about is this: www.falstudios.com/recto_line6.mp3

It's everything I've wished for, working with guitar modelers since 1993, and I haven't really dived inte the FX blocks yet

[Sui_City]

Kiwi,

I haven't heard it, but given the response over at THE GEAR PAGE, the Axe-FX sounds like serious business.

Fractal Audio Axe-FX - this thing is a Monster - The Gear Page

[guittarzzan]

I'm currently working on a song with a pretty heavy guitar tone and using a switchblade, I recorded two takes of each part of the song with each take sending signal to three different amps.
Amp 1 is an Engl E570 into a Randall Rt2/50 using 6l6's into VHT 4x12 w/V30's to Vintech X73 to Anamod to Digi 192.
Amp 2 is Egnater M4 using the SL2 (hot rodded marshall tone) into Randall Rt2/50 into Randall iso cab into Vintech X73 into Anamod to Digi 192.
Amp 3 is a Fractal Audio Axe Fx using a modified Das Metal amp run digital out straight into PT.

I am no master at recording or mixing and well know that others could get much better results with my gear, but to my ears, the Axe Fx is the real deal and unlike the Line 6 crap, it blends a lot better with other tracks. Does it sound 10000% exactly like a nice tube amp through a cab and mic etc? Well...I would put all the line 6 gear I've owned at about a 5-6 on a scale of 1-10. I would put the Axe Fx at about an 8-9 in terms of realism, response, and just flat out amp tone. This thing really does INSPIRE me to play guitar.

Now, in the mixing of the guitar tracks so far ( 3 tracks left/3 right). They all need to be there for the sound I want, but honestly if I had to choose only one, it'd probably be the Axe Fx tracks. This thing can get a very sweet distorted tone that stays nice and tight with no fizz. Some riffs seem to not reveal the fizziness of hi gain amps as much as others, but even at pretty low preamp gain, the Engl is right on the edge of getting annoying. Other riffs, the gain can be higher and no problem with that pre.

I would say whether you live in an apt or not, the Axe Fx is an awesome studio tool and the editing is deeper than any plug in or hardware modeller on the planet. I'd say the Axe Fx and the Switchblade are the two best guitar-related purchases I've made in the last 15 years.

I'm about to try the Axe FX for the first time using analog outs because I want to see how it sounds going through the Vintech and Anamod gear instead of digital out. Not because it sucked going digital. I just want to see if it gets even better this other way.

...and I'm just an owner of the Fractal piece-not a sales guy etc.

As far as the Randall iso cab thingy goes...I have extra auralex in mine with the box itself up off the floor on a thick layer of foam on top of plywood with casters. This helps a lot with the volume, but it, by no means isolates all the sound. It can get loud. There's really no reason you shouldn't be able to get some decent tones from it without having to wake the neighbors though. I put 2" auralex around the inside of it and I've never noticed a boxy sound. It just sounds like a typical close miking of an amp.
Quite honestly though, if I had to choose between an amp/iso cab set up and an Axe Fx, I'd probably stick with the Fractal piece unless the amp was a Diezel VH4 or something in that vicinity.

I hope all this rambling helps. It sucks to spend hard-earned money on gear only to fall out of love with it shortly there after. I've had the Axefx for about 6 months now and honestly, I like it and value it way more than I did when it was new.

cheers

[solo-act]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

Sounds like spam to me. I vote Neither.

Interesting options for recording Kiwi.
I guess it could be perceived as spam. The O.P. really needs to post the question on the axe-fx forum.
From what I understand fractal is trying to curb demand. They've never sent any units out for review, don't do any advertising, won't give one away to any high profile players. The builder doesn't push his product much, if any on any forums. He might answer a question or two, but 99% of the time one of the other users do. He's pretty much hunkered down doing R&D and expanding production to reduce the wait time.

To address Alex, nothing is as organic as the real tube amp and real paper speakers moving real air out at you as you listen with your ears in front of it.

For recording and direct to PA applications, the axe-fx is definitely a useful tool. I currently make a living using it direct to PA where I used to a Suhr Badger at low volumes. Others take advantage of routing, power and cab options and run it a whole slew of different ways with different gear. Lots of options there.
A common consensus is everyone enjoys the feel and dynamics of the unit a lot.

If you're used to experiencing the physical sound and particular organics of standing right in front of a traditional rig, the axe-fx can be quite different than that. A couple users have managed to duplicate their organic tube amp rigs close enough that they're happy.

My main interest is does the output of the unit sound like a miced tube rig and have the dynamics of one. For what I do its close enough, and the versatility is very very hard to beat when it comes to amps, pedals cabinets and effects.

If you want the real thing, use the real thing. If you only need one amp, mic the real amp. If you only need a couple tones, go old school and use the real rigs. For versatility, quality, convenience and price I've chosen the axe-fx. And bottom line for my particular use, its 10x more versatile than the tube/pedal/effects rig I was running and about $1500 less.

Once again there's nothing like the real thing, and if you have a library of amps, cabs, mics, pedals and the time to setup/record them, that 's a beautiful thing. For others, the axe-fx is a pretty good option. I have had, and still continue to have a hell of a lot of fun with it while it keeps the bills paid.

[Anonymatt]

I live in an apartment and track guitars. I've got strangers below some pretty thin floors.

I record direct guitars and then reamp through amp heads and one of those Randall Iso-cabs (I think some other company has taken over making the exact same box--saw it in the new EQ mag).

Even without the isolation, the reamping scenario only hits the neighbors hard for a short period of time. So, record DI guitars all week long, then, for a few hours on Saturday afternoon, get tones and run your tracks. I only have the Iso-cab because I'm a really nice guy.

If you plan it out right, and not bothering people is really a priority, you can make records at home without really wearing anyone out. We even have a method of recordings drum kits that doesn't bother the neighbors, and still yields higher quality results than we would get with conventional drum kit recording methodology given room and player technique are constants.

[Alex Wyler]

It's a beautiful thing to be able to just setup and play guitar with the sound you want, little setup time and have the finished thing on yout drive. Next time you boot up your computer you can just move on from there and not worry about processing or reamping stuff because you commited to it and it's done.

That is how I like to work anyways. And I get inspired at the most bizzare hours. I can't "plan out" my moments of inspiration.

I need something that I can turn on and get my sound out of quickly.

[Alex Wyler]

Is there anything better thant the Axe-fx out of the direct to disk recording possibilities that eliminate the use of a speaker pushing a lot of volume through it?

I just need to keep the neighbours happy but get a great guitar tone at my apartment.

Is there a better amp modelling device or direct preamp solution than the Axe-fx?

Love to hear about the other options!

[Sui_City]

Originally Posted by Alex Wyler

Is there anything better thant the Axe-fx out of the direct to disk recording possibilities that eliminate the use of a speaker pushing a lot of volume through it?

I just need to keep the neighbours happy but get a great guitar tone at my apartment.

Is there a better amp modelling device or direct preamp solution than the Axe-fx?

Love to hear about the other options!

Let's just say, based on some very tone-specific guitarists, that the Axe-FX is the bleeding edge at the moment.

A little too early for a "vs" thread.

[chrisj]

I think I'm making some big jumps in cabinet sounds, it's just that my amp models are totally not there by comparison. At least not high gain- much lower gain stuff, maybe. I'm suspicious of that because it seems to me if it was right, then the high gain stuff would work too.

Does anyone have a clip of heavy guitar through this Fractal thing with NO cab model, preferably not an mp3? I'd like to combine one with where I'm at with the cabs and post the result.

[guittarzzan]

It's really such a wide margin that imo, it's fair to say that you can put all of L6 and amp sim plug ins into the same category of "useable, but really not inspiring"
The Fractal piece really does feel and sound much, much more like the real deal than anything I've ever heard in the modelling world. One very cool thing you can do with it and get better results than a Palmer box etc is use a tube preamp and run it into the Fractal using it for cab sims and any effects you might want.
Could it be better? Yes. Until I can close my eyes and have no idea if I'm connected to my tube gear or the Fractal piece, then I guess it still has room for improvement.
I have a Randall iso cab and honestly, if you live in an apartment, you'll be way better off with the Fractal piece. You could track two completely seperate amps to two seperate tracks at once with different effects, eq etc. If I lived in an apt, I'd probably be using the FA exclusively. You pretty much have to build an iso cab around the iso cab to really get to the point where neighbors in an apt won't be bothered by it.
...and no, I don't work for Fractal. I'm a UPS driver livin' the dream lol.

[chrisj]

Just for fun I did a guitar snippet using one of my cabs that I was talking about- not the amp, the cab section. This is being run like it was a black metal guitar- it's my DeHiss plugin being used to gate, running into Logic's Guitar Amp Pro with the bass cranked and the mids killed, into the new version of my Airwindows GrindCab plugin- which is the one with the pure-metal, V30 tone.

I found that I had to push the bass really hard as the 'cab' doesn't really want to deliver it, but that might partly be Guitar Amp Pro. It seems like I got to a similar place, which I totally couldn't have got near with Guitar Amp Pro's cab simulation. Again, has anyone got a clip of the raw Fractal sound? It's doing stuff that Guitar Amp Pro can't even imagine, the low end kick there is quite something.

Always fun to chase after state of the art it's my own silly fault that I've been demonstrating this stuff only combined with my ampsims, which are toys compared to the Fractal.

Methinks it's high time for a re-think. I'm gonna make all the amp-sims free, and sell all the cabs bundled together in a single product. Expect the changes next week...

[robertkoa]

I wonder if any of you have run a guitar preamp into a Cab Sim such as the impulses in Axe Fx or others .I've done this with the cab impulses in the POD XT with good results. The cab models work very well with tube input-= you may be surprised. You have to turn Amp Modeling "off" of course and the tube preamp or guitar head (preamp out) should be dialed in how you like then try the digital cab impulses....let us know what you think.

[alexamk]

The Axe Fx Ultra is the best guitar gear purchase I have ever bought. I have the ability to mike amps and cabinets, I have a total of about 16 heads and 5 combo amps, since feb of this year I have switched to the Axe FX and have never looked back. Check one out they are so amazing, its like the first time you use a mac, and a whole new world opens up to you, kind of like a religion.

[guittarzzan]

Originally Posted by robertkoa

I wonder if any of you have run a guitar preamp into a Cab Sim such as the impulses in Axe Fx or others .I've done this with the cab impulses in the POD XT with good results. The cab models work very well with tube input-= you may be surprised. You have to turn Amp Modeling "off" of course and the tube preamp or guitar head (preamp out) should be dialed in how you like then try the digital cab impulses....let us know what you think.

I have run Engl and Egnater preamps throught the Axefx using just the cabs and a little eq. They sounded great. I haven't even messed with a fraction of the cab impulses available, but the real thing through the Axefx cabs etc sounded great imo.

cheers.

[Dean Roddey]

I've gone through the entire gamut, so this is one of those rare subjects where I can wax loquacious and actually have it be worth reading....

I've done a POD XT Pro, Amplitube 2, Iso cab, cheap combo amp, and a couple nice heads and cabs. So I've done the full tour. Clearly the last is the best, but it also requires the most care and experience to get right.

I have an Emery Microbaby (1 to 2 watts according to what tubes I have in it) and a Vox Nighttrain, which 7/15 watts but has a master volume. the Microbaby doesn't have any master volume.

I can record with these in the apartment without problems and it's a small apartment, though I'm on the bottom floor at the end. Both of the amps can get a wide range of tones (particularly with pedals added) without getting too loud. The Microbaby in particular is good for this, and it's a great vintage sounding amp. You CAN get the Microbaby too loud if you want, but it's fairly easy to keep it under control.

I also have a Weber MiniMASS for those times where I do need a little attenuation, but that's only when I want to really crank the Microbaby up for some real tube grunge (without any tone control, which reduces the volume considreably and often reduces the need for the attenuator.)

The big killer is low end buildup, IMO, which even on a guitar can be really significant as the volume goes up because of the small room size. That's really, to me, what becomes the neighbor waker. Given that I almost never actually want any of that low end recorded and would have rolled it off anyway, I just remove it before it hits the amp mostly. I get what I think is a better recorded tone and hugely lower perceived loudness in the apartment.

For anything with heavy distortion, probably a pedal would be used and the amp doesn't necessarily need to be cranked up particularly loud, but I can use the attenuator if I need.

You can obviously do good work with something like a POD or Amplitube. And for some types of music it might actually be just as good as the real thing, I dunno. But there's definitely something real mojo-like about real pedals, real amps, real speakers in a real room (though the real room may sound real bad and you may have to really remove as much of it as possible from the recording in some cases.)

I've found that the answer is a Re-amp box. You can use in various advantageous ways. You can use it as a virtual assistant. So you DI in a rough version of the part, then you can spend as much time as you need setting up the pedals, amp, mic/cab positions, outboard gear, etc... Then when you are happy, record it. Or you can do the real re-amp thing. Not to mention re-amping soft synths for a much more reaslistic sound, or reamping vocals or drums through guitar pedals and such.

Without that, it would be just too hard for me to do the real guitars/amps thing. That whole cycle of "play a bit, record it, listen to it, put down the guitar, move the mic a little, go back, pick up the guitar, repeat", that's just crazy. But the re-amp box avoids all those problems. And, when used in the standard re-amping sort of way, really is much like having an amp sim, but with real amps, because you can re-amp it any time you want to change the tone.

Anyway, that's my brain dump. Take it for what it's worth.